Subject: [Dev] XML Learning

From: Michael Mueller <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:58:56 -0400

I am going shopping for XML/SGML books.  Any comments on what is good out 
there?  

TIA,
-- 
Mike Mueller
www.ss7box.com

---

From: Tom Bryan <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:39:27 +0500

> I am going shopping for XML/SGML books.  Any comments on what is good out

I really liked _Professional_XML_ by WROX.  I don't know whether they've 
updated since the copy I had (which was before the XML Schema draft became an 
official recommendation...over a year ago).  I thought that it was pitched at 
about the right level for an experienced programmer looking for a general 
introduction to using XML for data exchange, but it was a bit weak in XML 
Schema.  

Many of the other books I looked at seemed to be pitched toward those moving 
from HTML to XML.  I had to stop reading one of those when it spent a page or 
two explaining how to edit a text document (with MS Notepad--blech) and the 
difference between text and something like a word document.  

If you have specific needs, then you might want to outline those.  Saying that 
you want to get an XML book is a bit like saying that you're getting a 
network book.  You mean setting up an IP network or using CORBA with IIOP?  
There's a big difference.  Same thing with XML.  Are you looking for stuff 
about writing and working with XML documents coded to a pre-existing DTD/XML 
Schema?  Are you looking for stuff about writing your own DTD/XML Schema?  
Are your XML documents more liked tagged docuements (user manuals) or coded 
data (SOAP)?  Are you interested in something very specific?  XSLT?  XML RPC?  
DocBook?  There are also guides that lean specifically to one language, such 
as O'Reilly's _Java_and_XML_.

---Tom

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From: Michael Mueller <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 15:42:50 -0400

On Thursday 11 July 2002 13:39, Tom Bryan reputedly wrote:
<snip>
> If you have specific needs, then you might want to outline those.  Saying
> that you want to get an XML book is a bit like saying that you're getting a
> about writing and working with XML documents coded to a pre-existing
> DTD/XML Schema?  Are you looking for stuff about writing your own DTD/XML
> Schema? Are your XML documents more liked tagged docuements (user manuals)
> or coded data (SOAP)?  Are you interested in something very specific? 
> XSLT?  XML RPC? DocBook?  There are also guides that lean specifically to
> one language, such as O'Reilly's _Java_and_XML_.

Bit of Pandora's Box is it not?  I am coming at XML from a DocBook user 
manual perspective.  My first goal is to be proficient with DocBook.   
There's just too much magic going on for me to feel comfortable.  I started 
reading a bit about SGML and XML and XSL and my comfort level started to 
rise.  I want my DocBook experience to be a launching point for further XML 
study.

-- 
Mike Mueller
www.ss7box.com

---

From: Tom Bryan <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 19:17:57 +0500

> rise.  I want my DocBook experience to be a launching point for further XML

Then the WROX book I mentioned might be a good starting point, especially if 
there has been an update recently.  After the first few chapters, it's set up 
as topic chapters so (while there is some building on previous chapters) many 
of the chapters can be read out of order acording to your interest.  

I know what you mean, though.  The basics of XML are fairly simple.  I can 
state them in a few sentences.  XML defines a standard, tag-based plain text 
document/data/content mark up language.  XML "instance" documents conforming 
to the basic rules of XML are well-formed.  Each document may also conform to 
a specific DTD or XML Schema, which defines what a valid document looks like.  
Esentially, the DTD/XML Schema defines a vocabulary, and an instance document 
can then be written to that vocabulary.

From a programmer's perspective, this separation is nice.  People can write 
tools for processing XML documents.  These tools are very generic since they 
just need to process well-formed documents and maybe determine the instance 
document's validity against a given DTD/XML Schema.  Xerces is an example of 
such a tool.  Then, there are other tools that can lean on the first set of 
tools.  These tools are designed to process documents within a specific 
vocabulary.  For example, there are tools that can convert DocBook XML 
documents into other formats, such as HTML.  

Unfortunately, beyond those basics, using XML effectively seems somehwhat 
daunting.  For example, if you really want to learn about XSLT, you need to 
have a grasp of XML namespaces, XPath, and XPointer.  None of those are hard 
in themselves, but like you said: it feels like a Pandora's box.  Or perhaps, 
the old junk closet.  It's hard to reach in and get just one thing.

---Tom

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From: Michael Mueller <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 16:47:55 -0400

On Saturday 13 July 2002 10:17, Tom Bryan reputedly wrote:
<snip> It's hard to reach in and get just one
> thing.

:-) Linux and OSS in a Nutshell.  Half the trick IMO is learning how to ask 
questions.  Thanks for the info.  I'll check out the WROX book.

-- 
Mike Mueller
www.ss7box.com