[TriLUG] ___ at mindspring.com____--more installer thoughts

[Sinner from the Prairy]

>From: "al johson" <alfjon at mindspring.com>

>Well the real question I have is this: why did Mandrake 7.1 automagically
>identify and beautifully install my "old ISA internal modem" but Mandrake
>8.0 didn't, esp. when no hardware changes were made??

At the time of MDK 7.1, many computers still shipped with ISA ports. Now, 
they don't. And, because detection of ISA devices is tricky (under any OS, 
this is why they are passed out) and might crash your system, well, it has 
been removed from the default HW detection routine.

Of course, you have the option to use the traditional ISApnp tools.

>virtually all of them require Windows to run!! Yes, I tried isapnp and
>frankly I wasn't impressed.

You shouldn't be impressed. You should be able to get the info to make it 
work. And that's it.

And developing a GTK-Python/Perl application for a set of tools that work... 
but that have teir days conuted (less and less machines around need to be 
configured for ISA devices), well, developers aren't specially thrilled to 
do the nifty tool that you might like.

But you are welcome to do it yourself. sourceforge can host your project.

>      I also don't understand why the Linux loaders wouldn't  give you the
>option of  telling Linux what hardware you have and where it is located,

This is why you have virtual terminals available on install. If you are a 
power user, you can go there and check by yourself.

>with that info it should be duck soup for any operating system to install
>hardware or at least give you a message saying WHY the OS is unable to
>install said hardware, e.g. "sorry this hardware cannot be installed on
>LINUX at this particular time. We suggest you purchase another device which
>will work with LINUX".

If you have a Winmodem, Mandrake tells you something very similar to this.

>    I especially don't understand what the DEFAULT permission for accessing
>and burning a CD-RW is set for only Root use.

Because it means accessing the phisical machine inorder to do that. 
Remember, Linux is a multiuser, networking OS. It is thought to be used from 
terminals/Xterminals. Linux it is not only a desktop OS. It works as the 
workhorse of Amazon.com, eBay, Google...

What about if, while you are burning a C as username=joe, username=mary goes 
and does "eject" to insert "Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory - The 
Musical CD"?

Making it "easier" for you will make it worst for so many others.

>This causes yet another problem for newbie users
>because

...because they refuse to read a little?

Check http://www.mandrakeuser.org

And also check man sudo . You are going to love this one.

>But an good installer could sense that a CDRW is being installed and put in
>a simple routine to change this permission if the user so desired (maybe
>some users would still like to reserve use to ROOT!!).

man sudo

And I am not sure, but... have you checked if you have a group called 
"cdwriter" or something similar?

>These are just a few
>of the "annoyances" that I've noticed in Linux, which are not specific to
>either Mandrake or RedHat. They really can't be called "defects", because
>they can be easily fixed, BUT ONLY IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING, which is

They are not bugs. They are features.

For stability, security and only let users touch the system when they really 
know what their doing.

Linux is friendly. Maybe it is a little picky choosing its friends (yes, it 
asks you to know how to -gasp!- read), but, nevertheless, it is a 
powergfull, flexible system.

And if you do not like the behaviour (that so many others like and think 
that it is appropiate), you can go and change it.

Ah, the beauty of choice!

>the real problem because if you don't you can destroy all your work in a
>heartbeat learning how to change permissions. There just needs to be some
>thinking about what an ordinary desktop should look like right after
>installation--what things need to be set to what, etc. Then it becomes duck
>soup to write the installer so that you finally get there preferably one 
>way
>or another. Moreover, it would be nice for the installer to tell a user 
>what
>he/she can do if a particular piece of hardware is not recognized and
>installed.

If the installer is unable to install a piece of hardwaer, usually is 
because the installer has no clue about the piece of hardware. In this case, 
I see no way to provide any recomendations, aside from

" I have detected a PCI device with LUN 0.123.767 and ID 256ASGASG. Please 
do your best using google inorder to use it under Linux. Yours faithfully, 
Linus Tordvalds".

This sure will frighten a whole bunch of users.



Salut,
Sinner

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