[TriLUG] OT: Certifications - Education

Mon Aug 29 14:35:34 EDT 2005

There's an Ask Slashdot post about this topic today: 
http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/26/1739234&tid=187

WMM

On 8/29/05, Shane O'Donnell <shaneodonnell at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On 8/29/05, Mark Freeze <mfreeze at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I have found that traditional (read clueless) HR departments will look
> > over a person with 2 or 3 years experience and no degree and hire a
> > college grad with no experience. I don't know why this happens other
> > than it could be that most upper level, non-technical, HR & management
> > types are looking for some validation that they can relate to their
> > own experiences. Now we all know the reality: Take two people, equally
> > intelligent, but with no real work experience. Who would be better
> > qualified to work a shift at a computer lab or perform tasks in a live
> > network environment -- A person who has taken and passed their RHCE
> > exam, or a person who just graduated from college? We know the
> > answer, but I'll bet you that 90% of HR departments in the US would
> > hire the recent college grad.
> 
> Hmmm...I don't know that you've provided enough information for us all
> to make the same decision here. And I don't think that a
> high-schooler that spent the summer cramming for an RHCE cert is the
> obvious choice over a college grad with no work experience.
> 
> As an industry, especially with the recent proclivity for
> outsourcing/offshoring, I believe we're heading for the rapid
> "blue-collarizing" of many tech jobs. And I think this is good. When
> the car was first introduced, only the guy that invented it or had
> similar understanding of its inner workings (likely, a college
> edumacated engineer) could work on it. Now, high schoolers can go to
> vocational education, get a CERTIFICATION, and be duly qualified to
> work on cars. And if they've got the cert, they might make a little
> more money than their uncertified counterparts. Certs only mean that
> you are familiar and comfortable with the subject matter that they
> cover. Trades unions provide similar testing/certification programs
> before a tradesman can be hired to do certain types of work.
> 
> If I were hiring for someone to execute a given, limited set of tasks
> with relative frequency and nominal variance in the output they should
> expect, someone certified in that area would foot the bill just fine.
> However, if I wanted to hire someone to do this task today, but to
> also feel comfortable operating with a broader set of
> responsibilities, perhaps in an area of multiple operating systems,
> application support, administration (e.g., record keeping, etc.), and
> have the expectation that this person would possibly grow into larger
> roles, I would likely consider someone that brought something to the
> table beyond a specific certification.
> 
> If we're looking for colleges to provide nothing more than training in
> a trade, then they aren't serving their purpose.
> Colleges/Universities should be providing a broader educational
> foundation, in essence, teaching someone how to think, reason, and
> continue their education on their own--drawing from experience,
> research, and *gasp* reading to learn more. Additionally, where
> colleges must provide some level of "these are the facts required to
> operate in this industry/role", they excel in providing a relatively
> uniform coverage of topics--something that self-trained or "boot
> camp"-trained folks USUALLY lack.
> 
> As an example, most CS undergrad programs teach one or more classes in
> data structures. Without a firm understanding of the concepts from a
> course like this, folks (and I've worked with several of them) are
> doomed to go with what they know, versus what might be a better tool
> for the job at hand. This leads to problems in efficiency,
> performance, scalability, etc. However, that doesn't mean that the
> program won't work with wrong data structures. This then leads us
> down a path of what defines the quality of work we expect from
> employees, and that's a thread for another day.
> 
> Now don't get me wrong--some of the brightest folks I've ever
> hired/worked with do not have degrees. Conversely, some of the
> dumbest folks I've ever hired/worked with have had college degrees.
> The differences between the "good IT guy" and the "bad IT guy" are
> many, but if I had to try to identify the common theme that I've seen,
> it has much more to do with someone's ability to grasp ideas at a
> conceptual level rather than a simple task-execution level.
> Unfortunately, I've not seen many degrees, certifications, employment
> tests, etc. that can accurately guage someone's ability to think like
> that. Certifications ABSOLUTELY DO NOT guarantee this. College
> degrees don't either, but college degrees--given their broader subject
> matter and longer duration of the program--usually do a better job of
> weeding out those that don't "think well".
> 
> No offense intended to non-degreed folks on the list. Consider this a
> little insight into my thought processes should you ever have to
> interview with me...
> 
> Degreed and certified (perhaps "certifiable"),
> 
> Shane O.
> >
> > One of the saddest things I have ever witnessed was a couple of years
> > ago when I was running a company in Alabama. We had a temporary
> > receptionist and I had to show her how to start and use Excel. All she
> > really needed to to was data entry several sheets and then total a
> > couple of columns, but, she had no clue how to get started. The sad
> > part is that she was working at the temporary service because she had
> > just graduated from Auburn with a 4-year degree in MIS and was looking
> > for what she called 'a computer job.'
> >
> > If anyone is looking for a job in a traditional environment, the best
> > thing to have, IMHO, is a 4 year degree from an accredited institution
> > that everyone recognizes. Many HR departments look down their
> > pencil-pushing noses at technical certifications and online degrees.
> >
> > If you don't have your 4-year degree, a couple of the best programs
> > (to me at least) are the ones at East Carolina and Florida State.
> > Both of these universities will allow you to complete your undergrad
> > in computer science online. All you need is a 2-year AA or AS in
> > general studies from your local college and you can do the other two
> > years at home while you watch reruns of Friends. Plus, when you get
> > your degree, its the same degree as someone who had been at the
> > college campus for 4 years. Your degree doesn't say 'Florida State
> > Online Campus.' Also, I know Auburn University used to have a
> > Technical and Engineering MBA program (TEMBA) that they offer online.
> > There may be other online undergrad programs at conventional
> > universities, but these are the only two that I am familiar with.
> >
> > http://options.ecu.edu
> > http://online.fsu.edu (Even with an AA or AS make sure you meet the
> > foreign language requirement on the admission forms.)
> >
> > "Boy, you need to get a good edumacation. Just like your dad." --Homer 
> Simpson
> >
> > Best of luck,
> > Mark.
> > --
> > TriLUG mailing list : http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/trilug
> > TriLUG Organizational FAQ : http://trilug.org/faq/
> > TriLUG Member Services FAQ : http://members.trilug.org/services_faq/
> > TriLUG PGP Keyring : http://trilug.org/~chrish/trilug.asc
> >
> 
> 
> --
> Shane O.
> ========
> Shane O'Donnell
> shaneodonnell at gmail.com
> ====================
> --
> TriLUG mailing list : http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/trilug
> TriLUG Organizational FAQ : http://trilug.org/faq/
> TriLUG Member Services FAQ : http://members.trilug.org/services_faq/
> TriLUG PGP Keyring : http://trilug.org/~chrish/trilug.asc
> 


-- 
http://warrenmyers.com
"God may not play dice with the universe, but something strange is going on 
with the prime numbers." --Paul Erdős