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I appreciate the responces. Ok my beef with KDE on Red Hat is not the appeareance
but I am not sure I like how it is intergrated. I would prefer the binaries
not to be under /usr/bin. My default kde came up with several apps missing.
I will go back and verify this so I am talking very accurately (this may
take a week, software is no longer my occupation, layoffs.. ) The first two
apps kmenuedit and appfinder are on the system but not a menu item. They
were only earilier releases ( I am on RH 8.0). <br>
<br>
Matt Wilson wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid20030524115714.I27369@devserv.devel.redhat.com">
<pre wrap="">On Sat, May 24, 2003 at 11:15:00AM -0400, Chris Hedemark wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">No. KDE has always gotten the shaft from Red Hat. IIRC, this was a
major reason for the genesis of Mandrake originally.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
No, KDE would be getting the shaft if we didn't ship it at all.
Instead we go to a considerable amount of trouble to integrate it as a
desktop for Red Hat Linux. We spend a fair amount of time on the
packages, and we work on standards with the KDE people so that desktop
environments under Linux can inter-operate.</pre>
</blockquote>
Not sure of the problems of inter-operation, but I know a fair amount of
work and cooperation have gone on between Gnome and KDE. It is hard to appreciate
since I do not know the problems. <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid20030524115714.I27369@devserv.devel.redhat.com">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I also am annoyed there is no rpm for RH distributions at KDE.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">I think the hidden message there is that if you value KDE, pick a
distro that doesn't mangle it.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/3.1.2/RedHat">ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/3.1.2/RedHat</a>
No hidden message here. It's difficult to support any system with
major components that are included in the operating system replaced by
third party packages. Still, we actually built these 3.1.2 packages
at Red Hat for users that want them.</pre>
</blockquote>
Well well that is nice but I the actual url is <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/3.1.2/RedHat/9/">ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/3.1.2/RedHat/9/</a><br>
I am running RH 8 so I am sure of the ramifications of installing over top
of kde. RH gives not choice except to step on the previous incantation.<br>
<br>
I want to be able to install, test to my satisfaction and then switch over.
A "step on" is rude. I know RH has come a long way (I still have copy of
the first CD RH cut, that was a big day for me) but I still want to control
my upgrade. Look if you can do it with the kernel, why not the application
level? I guess I would download the src from the above and build it on RH
8. But does RH build with konstruct (nice tool)? <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid20030524115714.I27369@devserv.devel.redhat.com">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">You've given me a good reason to do something I've been putting off.
My last RH box has been idle for months. The bastardized desktop
they've been pushing has really put me off. I think I'll put Mandrake
on there today.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
It's always strange to us that Red Hat receives such hostility about
customizing the desktop to have a unique look and feel that many of
our users like. We knew that it would not please everyone, so we made
sure that it's possible to customize your KDE or GNOME desktop to look
however you wish.</pre>
</blockquote>
Came close, the fact is both Gnome and KDE as they come out of the box are
very usable especially for those who have not used either Gnome or KDE or
linux for that matter. I am not sure that there is a business case to be
made to try and please those who are experienced and really use/configure
our desktops to our particular styles of work. We would just like to upgrade,
get all our bells whistles without spending much time reconfiguration/hacking
etc.. Now this stuff happens, fact of life, <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid20030524115714.I27369@devserv.devel.redhat.com">
<pre wrap="">
Even more puzzling, however, is that we continue to get flack on this
issue when other distributions have followed our lead. When you
install Mandrake Linux 9.1 you'll see that both GNOME and KDE have a
new MandrakeGalaxy theme applied to theme. No one calls that
"bastardized" though. Likewise, SuSE Linux 8.2 has a default KDE
theme that includes its own window borders with the Geeko lizard
mascot in the corners.</pre>
</blockquote>
Not trying to give flack, just seeing if it is worth while spending time
to make keeping up with kde that much easier.<br>
BTW I got 3.1.2 src last night kicked it off and it failed to compile:<br>
xslt.c: In function `exclPrefixPop':<br>
xslt.c:119: `xmlChar' undeclared (first use in this function)<br>
xslt.c:119: `ret' undeclared (first use in this function)<br>
xslt.c:121: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type<br>
yada, yada yada<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid20030524115714.I27369@devserv.devel.redhat.com">
<pre wrap=""></pre>
</blockquote>
Have yet to go back to try and figure this out. This is annoying, but it
has been a fact of linux experience since 1994. But if I spend the time to
get things working and other people are experiencing the same thing, make
your solution public. Just trying to take a poll and see what is going on
and maybe help. looks like there is such a group at<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://kde-redhat.sourceforge.net/">http://kde-redhat.sourceforge.net/</a> . <br>
<br>
As RH has gotten bigger I find it not as friendly to find support as it once
was. The errata for kde upgrades stops when the new release comes out no
explaination of how to bridge that, except buy... <br>
<br>
But I appreciate the interest and comments. It would be nice for RH to give
thier HOWto on how they build kde, even if it is to say, we did what KDE
does. But I suspect that is not true.<br>
<br>
karl<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:karlthiele@nc.rr.com">karlthiele@nc.rr.com</a><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid20030524115714.I27369@devserv.devel.redhat.com">
<pre wrap="">
Cheers,
Matt
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:msw@redhat.com">msw@redhat.com</a>
--
Matt Wilson
Manager, Base Operating Systems
Red Hat, Inc.
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</pre>
</blockquote>
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