--- Log opened Mon Aug 14 00:00:57 2006
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00:18 < pinskia> hi
00:20 < rudy> pinski: are you stuck in a loop?
00:20 < pinskia>  no
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01:14 < rand-irc> 10.5 server is looking sweet
01:24 < jack-> clepple: yeah
01:24 < jack-> which ls
01:25 < jack-> /usr/bin/ls
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02:04 < jack-> uh oh
02:04 < jack-> clepple, you were damn right
02:04 < jack-> my ls is in /usr/bin, but i DO have a /sw/bin/ls
02:04 < jack-> and the manpage was from that one of course
02:07 < baba> what does "echo $PATH" say?
02:07 < baba> and also, "echo $MANPATH"
02:07 < jack-> echo $PATH
02:07 < jack-> /usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/opt/local/bin:/opt/local/sbin:/sw/bin:/sw/sbin
02:08 < jack-> echo $MANPATH
02:08 < baba> ok, /usr/bin comes earlier than /sw/bin... that's why you use /usr/bin
02:08 < jack-> /sw/share/man:/usr/man:/usr/X11R6/man:/sw/lib/perl5/5.8.6/man:/sw/lib/perl5-core/5.8.1/man:/sw/lib/perl5/5.8.1/man
02:08 < jack-> yup
02:08 < jack-> and sw comes first in the manpath..thats why
02:08 < baba> exactly
02:09 < jack-> hows life in tokyo atm?
02:09 < jack-> i wonder why the todai crew got so lazy building stuff :)
02:10 < jack-> kde3.5.4 is out for a week now, but there's no sign of it in todai yet..etc
02:10 < pinskia> hi
02:10 < baba> they are on holiday, i bet
02:10 < jack-> morning pinkskia
02:10 < jack-> baba: i see
02:10 < pinskia> jack-: it is 11:10pm here :)
02:11 < jack-> 8:10 here..but ok, before noon can still be called morning or not?
02:11 < jack-> oh, pm
02:11 < jack-> heh
02:11 < jack-> pinskia: where you at? usa right?
02:12 < pinskia> Cali
02:12 < jack-> nice
02:14 < jack-> pinskia: do you know what gcc version is in xcode 3.0?
02:14 < pinskia> 4.0.2
02:14 < jack-> ugh
02:14 < pinskia> they did not update
02:14 < jack-> funky
02:14 < jack-> yeah, i see
02:15 < pinskia> Apple has too much todo with x86_64 and x86 in general to do an update
02:15 < jack-> but its possible with xcode 3.0 to make a difference between ppc and ppc_64 right?
02:16 < jack-> would be too sad if the true g5 power could never be used with apples tools..
02:16 < pinskia> Apple has never cared about any code gen
02:17 < jack-> :x
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02:17 < pinskia> and this compile time shit is just that shit
02:18 < jack-> understandable, though..kind of
02:18 < jack-> since they use their own build system internally..why bother
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02:19 < pinskia> and they have never really sped up the compiler that much either
02:21 < jack-> oh well
02:21 < jack-> guess we should be happy that its still possible to build stuff on 10.5 at all
02:21 < pinskia> Apple has their head in the wrong place really
02:21 < jack-> yeah
02:21 < jack-> but well, they want to make money
02:22 < jack-> the whole bsd+proprietary stuff is kinda schizophrenic ;)
02:22 < pinskia> almost always has because upper managment is wrong 95% of the time
02:22 < pinskia> they have like 10 people working on GCC and here at SCE, we have only 5 and we work on the libc too
02:23 < pinskia> and we still are able to get more done than them, it is funny really
02:23 < jack-> yeah
02:23 < jack-> sad if good developers get slowed down that much, just because the management cant get their plans straight
02:24 < jack-> i dont really have that much insight, but i'm starting to understand bbraun better and better ;)
02:25 < pinskia> jack-: or me :)
02:25 < jack-> or you :)
02:27 < pinskia> the problem I have with SCE is really, there is no understanding upper management because they are so far away
02:28 < jack-> impossible to improve the communication a bit? like, doing more video conferencing and all?
02:28 < pinskia> but 95%, they are not involved so really it does not matter :)
02:28 < jack-> i see
02:29 < pinskia> Apple's management likes to be involved which is scary for a mature company really
02:29 < jack-> kind of, yeah
02:30 < jack-> they should be able to appoint mature project leaders and trust in them
02:31 < pinskia> Apple still acts like it is a small company which it is no longer
02:31 < pinskia> well bed time
02:31 < jack-> the old "we're a garage band" spirit, or something ;)
02:31 < jack-> i'm off for work, too
02:31 < jack-> nite pinskia
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07:03 < welly> Hey all.. just done an install of apache2 with fink but getting a permissions error - (13)Permission denied: httpd: could not open error log file /sw/var/apache2/logs/error_log.
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07:55 < holz> hi
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07:56 < u4a> are there any way to use x11 instead graphics osx enviroment?
08:00 <@RangerRick> I don't believe it's possible to start X11 instead of aqua, AFAIK
08:01 <@RangerRick> it used to be, back in the day, but I haven't heard of it working since 10.2-ish
08:04 < u4a> um someone said that macosxhits has an article about it
08:04 < u4a> let me seee..
08:05 <@RangerRick> I would check when macosxhints got that hint
08:05  * RangerRick bets it's not since 10.3 was out
08:05 < holz> somebody said that launching .apps will be impossible without aqua
08:05 <@RangerRick> :)
08:05 <@RangerRick> holz: presumably the idea is to only launch unix stuff...
08:05 <@RangerRick> you definitely can't launch mac GUI apps without aqua
08:05 < holz> yeah
08:05 < holz> ah
08:06 < holz> I didn't know that point
08:07 < holz> however, I think to use just unix stuff I can use better a free unix
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08:10 <@RangerRick> guess we scared him off  ;)
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08:11 <@RangerRick> he can't handle the truth
08:11 < simpsonianbanana> is fink.sodan.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp down, or is it just me?
08:11 <@RangerRick> someone else was saying they had connection issues, so perhaps so
08:11  * RangerRick doesn't use it
08:12 < simpsonianbanana> hmm
08:12 < simpsonianbanana> hmm
08:12 < simpsonianbanana> :p
08:12 < simpsonianbanana> too much thinking
08:14  * RangerRick heads to work
08:19 < simpsonianbanana> argh
08:19 < simpsonianbanana> head = dead
08:19 < simpsonianbanana> sources = /sw/etc/apt/sources.list?
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09:06 <@RangerRick> I'm not sure what you're asking...
09:16 < cirdan> simpsonianbanana: are you trying to download debs, or sources?
09:16 < cirdan> fink configure will let you pick new mirrors
09:25 < pinskia> hi
09:39 < Bart_> hi
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09:48 < clepple> jack-: I'm still sort of curious where /usr/bin/ls came from... most of the time, the OS-supplied 'ls' is in /bin
09:49  * cirdan doesn't have it
09:49 < cirdan> is it a gnu ls?
09:49 < akh> mmm....evil third-party utility package...
09:49 < Bart_> gnu ls sux
09:49 < Bart_> bsd ls rulez
09:49 < Bart_> hm clepple whereis ls
09:50 < Bart_> hideout@osx:~$whereis ls
09:50 < Bart_> ./bin/ls
09:50 < Bart_> omg
09:51  * cirdan smacks Bart_ with a wet trout
09:52 < Bart_> outch
09:52 < Bart_> not good
09:53  * Bart_ give cirdan some burger
09:53 < cirdan> mmm
09:53  * cirdan takes some beer with that
09:53 < poushag> rangerrick, i found the emacs was just too laborious and not very gui-ish
09:53 < Bart_> i like more coke
09:53 < Bart_> gui-ish emacs?
09:53 < Bart_> wtf
09:54 < cirdan> hah
09:54 < cirdan> emacks sucks anyways
09:54 < poushag> but i also found that kdiff3 is compiled for mac osx with each release  :)
09:54 < cirdan> huh?
09:55 < poushag> kdiff3 roxxors
09:55 < akh> cirdan: s/is//
09:55 < akh> (re kdiff)
09:56 < poushag> cirdan, you are right about emacs - i had never tried it before last night
09:56 < poushag> bart, i was trying aquamacs which is emacs in an aqua wrapper
09:58 < Bart_> poushag not good
09:58 < Bart_> i like emacs in default terminal
09:58 < akh> wtf:  fink-prebinding?
09:58 < poushag> well i dont like emacs at all - sry but i had to use beyond compare for work and later xxdiff
09:58 < Bart_> omg
09:59 < poushag> so emacs just is terrible for me
10:01 <@RangerRick> akh: what makes it wtf?
10:01 <@RangerRick> prebinding essentially doesn't do much since 10.4.3 or thereabouts, we were meaning to remove it some time ago
10:02 <@RangerRick> also, we have a new fink version, got a constellation?  :)
10:02 < akh> RangerRick: Ah.  I thought that it was being reimplemented
10:02 < Bart_> lol
10:02 <@RangerRick> no, it was being re-moved
10:02 <@RangerRick> :)
10:03 < akh> phew!
10:03 <@RangerRick> dear god no
10:03 < Bart_> i never did fink-prebinding?
10:03 <@RangerRick> hehe
10:03 < Bart_> re-moved?
10:03 < Bart_> RangerRick you mean out and in
10:03 < Bart_> ;)
10:04 -!- mode/#fink [+o akh] by ChanServ
10:05 < poushag> but i have a question about kdiff3 in fink - is the source updated more often than for each release on kdiff3.sourceforge.net ?
10:07 < poushag> becasue it seems rather redundant to have kdiff3 in fink when theres a binary already compiled for osx with each release
10:07 < Bart_> no i donīt think so
10:07 -!- akh changed the topic of #fink to: Questions? See http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.1 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.26: Telescopium || The cat is out of the bag. Repeat. The cat is out of the bag. Gentlemen, start your porting.
10:08 -!- mode/#fink [-o akh] by ChanServ
10:10 < poushag> instead of leaving kdiff3 out of fink completely out of fink, why not put a note with a link to sf.net download page for it (if thats even possible) - then the people looking for kdiff3 dont think it was merely forgotten
10:10 < poushag> (im assuming here that you dont want fink to be redundant)
10:11 < akh> wrong
10:11 < poushag> is fink already redundant with other software?  if so why?
10:13 < akh> Any time you install a non-Fink binary, it typically has to include all of the dependent shared libraries needed to make it work.  
10:14 < Bart_> omg
10:14 <@RangerRick> sometimes it is, in this case, fink's kdiff3 uses X11
10:14 < Bart_> porting to 10.5?
10:14 < Bart_> i donīt have 10.5 now ;(
10:14 <@RangerRick> for people who are using kde on macs, they may want kdiff3 integrated into the rest of their unix-y environment
10:15 <@RangerRick> no one's making you install it through fink  ;)
10:16  * RangerRick didn't know it had a native binary
10:16 <@RangerRick> it must not actually be a kde app
10:16 < Bart_> ;)
10:17 < akh> RangerRick: The Fink version seems to have the usual KDE business.
10:17 < poushag> its using trolltech on mac i guess - but thx for explaining the reason for the semi-redundancy 
10:19 <@RangerRick> ah, so maybe it enables extra stuff if it's got a kde environment
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10:22 < drm> !seen msachs
10:22 < Melian> msachs <n=msachs@c-24-34-72-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 1d 5h 37m 38s ago, saying: 'I'm flying out to Minnesota tomorrow.  I'll be there for a week and then Cupertino for a week.  My internet access may be limited while in Minnesota.  Have a good week, Finkers!'.
10:22 < drm> dang
10:23 < pinskia> well that might mean I get to see him next week
10:23 < pinskia> wait this sounds like what my parents are doing
10:23 < pinskia> except they are driving
10:23 < pinskia> and visiting me in Foster City and not Cupertino
10:24 < drm> anybody know anything about caddr_t ?
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11:05 < jack-> clepple
11:05 < jack-> i found the answer, its so simple
11:05 < jack-> ls -l /usr/bin/ls
11:05 < jack-> lrwxrwxrwx   1 root  wheel  7 Mar 28 11:01 /usr/bin/ls -> /bin/ls
11:05 < jack-> ^^
11:05 < jack-> think i had to create that symlink for some install script to run through, glftpd or something
11:06 < jack-> copies a bunch of binaries and libs to create a chroot..and wants the stuff in /usr of course, being a linux thing
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11:16 < pogma> RangerRick: I just sent you a mail
11:16 < pinskia> hi pogma 
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11:16 < pogma> hi pinskia 
11:16 <@RangerRick> pogma: ok
11:16 < pogma> gotta go again :)
11:17 < pogma> looks like that mail may have gone out twice, oddness
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11:28 < drm> can somebody remind me about our experimental updates to things like dpkg and apt? do they exist? where are they?
11:35 < Bart_> omg
11:36 <@RangerRick> drm: cvs co 3rdparty
11:36 < Bart_> when i should you remind?
11:36 <@RangerRick> I *think* dpkg is pretty stable, but it needs a little more testing, especially in bootstrap
11:36 < drm> Rangerrick: thanks... do we have apt?
11:36 <@RangerRick> apt is not, it pretends to index things but doesn't seem to work
11:36 < drm> dang
11:36 <@RangerRick> but you can update one without the other
11:36 < drm> i don't wanna have to patch the old apt :(
11:38 <@RangerRick> yeah  :P
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12:45 < akh> Feh.  looks like the Todai bindist is down again.
12:47 < Bart_> for real?
12:47 < Bart_> i saw today ahh nice youtube video
12:47 < Bart_> feeding google
12:47 < Bart_> 1000 pizzas for google company
12:48 < Bart_> they bring
12:48 < Bart_> w0ar
12:48 < akh> Hopefully people were able to "search" for a pizza they liked.
12:48 < akh> ;-)
12:49 < Bart_> hehe
12:50 < Bart_> yes
12:50 < Bart_> but i think there was some without mushrooms and onion too
12:51 < akh> The usual problem I've seen is for those with dietary restrictions (religious, ethical, hate vegetables, ...)
12:52 < Bart_> hm
12:52 < Bart_> just searching 
12:52 < Bart_> some a without vegetables
12:52 < Bart_> ;)
12:52 < akh> Good enough. :-)
12:52 < Bart_> yes
12:53 < Bart_> akh youīve been to the wwdc?
12:53 < akh> No.
12:53 < akh> I was referring to the general problem of ordering pizzas for a group. :-)
12:54 < Bart_> hehe realy?
12:54 < Bart_> you make the same with apple like they do at google company 
12:54 < Bart_> hehe
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14:44  * akh_laptop adds a new package to 10.4
14:45 < akh_laptop> Hopefully it builds on Intel...
14:45 < rudy> who cares about intel?
14:46 -!- kane-xs [n=kane@perl.xs4all.nl] has joined #fink
14:46 < Ries> rudy: I do a little bit :)
14:47 < akh_laptop> rudy: I just don't want to have to deal with complaints.
14:47 < rudy> who cares about you?
14:47  * newmanbe laughs. The Wisconsin Interoperability Executive Council's website is deisgned for IE >= 5 and a screen resolution of >= 800x600.
14:47 < akh_laptop> In this case, the fact that -I- do is all that matters.
14:48 < newmanbe> So much for interoperability.
14:48 < akh_laptop> Heh.
14:48 < akh_laptop> They should have stipulated a browser, too.
14:48 < newmanbe> They did.
14:48 < newmanbe> IE >= version 5
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14:48 < akh_laptop> Ah, missed that.
14:49 < akh_laptop> Nice of them.
14:49 < jessealama> i'm upgrading from the 10.4-transitional tree to 10.4
14:49 < jessealama> i ust issued the command `sudo apt-get dist-upgrade'
14:49 < jessealama> it looks like apt is trying to fetch a bunch of packages from sodan
14:50 < jessealama> but i just keep getting the error `bad gateway' again and again
14:50 < akh_laptop> Not our fault.  You enabled it.
14:50 < akh_laptop> !today
14:50 < akh_laptop> oops
14:50 < akh_laptop> !todai
14:50 < Melian> todai is, like, an unofficial bindist for 10.3 and 10.4 (non-transitional, x86 and PPC). Add "deb http://fink.sodan.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/apt/10.4 unstable main crypto" to /sw/etc/apt/sources.list . Remember it's not officially supported, don't expect us to fix breakage!
14:50 < jack-> 502 bad gateway
14:50 < jack-> its not working atm akh
14:50 < akh_laptop> I know.
14:50 -!- akh_laptop is now known as akh
14:51 < jack-> hope they'll be able to fix that soon
14:51 < jack-> but baba said they're probably on holidays atm
14:51 < jessealama> it seems that i was able to get some stuff from sodan
14:51 < akh> jessealama: You'll need to deactivate that site in your sources.list.
14:51 < jessealama> akh: ok
14:52 < akh> At least until they're back up.
14:53 < jessealama> phew
14:53 < jessealama> ok back to downloading
14:56 < jessealama> wow the version of emacs22 in fink seems to be awfully old
14:57 < akh> If you can come up with a more current one that works, I'd imagine nobody would object. :-)
14:57 < jessealama> i'd love to
14:57 < jessealama> i've been thinking of tracking the development of the carbon emacs package
14:57 < akh> Cool--I was just about to put in a request for that. :-)
14:58 < jessealama> shouldn't be too tough
14:59 < akh> I'd bet you might be able to persuade any listed emacsen maintainers to let you take over.
15:00 < jessealama> cool
15:00 < jessealama> i'll approach one of them with a real package
15:00 < jessealama> it'll add to my credibility
15:01 < jessealama> d'oh!
15:01 < jessealama> some of my emacs packages broke my upgrade to 10.4
15:01 < jessealama> i should fix those bugs
15:03 < akh> Heh.  That's a hit on your cred. ;-)
15:03 < jessealama> not if i fix the bugs real quick-like ;-)
15:04 < akh> You can totally take emacsen-common over, btw.  That maintainer hasn't been heard from in > 1 year.
15:04 < jessealama> sweet
15:04 < jessealama> i have an idea for what to do with that package
15:05 < akh> Nice.
15:05 < akh> Now if we could find somebody to take GNOME over--including fighting with upstream...
15:07 < jack-> ^^
15:07 < jack-> isnt miga a pretty enthusiastic gnome person?
15:08 < akh> jack-: Sure.  I don't know if she feels like taking the whole thing over just yet.
15:09 < jack-> true
15:09 < jack-> its a big chuck of madness
15:09 < jack-> i doubt anyone could handle gnome as well as RR juggles with kde
15:09 < akh> We need an evil GNOME-oriented RangerRick from a parallel universe. :-)
15:09 < jack-> *chunk
15:09 < jack-> yeah :P
15:11 < Bart_> naw
15:11 < Bart_> RangerRick is the kde man!
15:11 < jack-> o rly?
15:11 < jack-> :)
15:14 < jack-> !find libpng
15:14 < Melian> Debian Package Listing of 'libpng' (6): libpng-sixlegs-java ;; libpng12-0 ;; libpng12-dev ;; libpng3 ;; libpngwriter0-dev ;; libpngwriter0c2.
15:14  * jack- pokes cirdan
15:14 < akh> !find ls
15:15 < Melian> Debian Package Listing of 'ls' (12 of 627): adplug-utils ;; airport-utils ;; alsa-base ;; alsa-firmware-loaders ;; alsa-modules-2.4-386 ;; alsa-modules-2.4-586tsc ;; alsa-modules-2.4-686 ;; alsa-modules-2.4-686-smp ;; alsa-modules-2.4-k6 ;; alsa-modules-2.4-k7 ;; alsa-modules-2.4-k7-smp ;; alsa-modules-2.4.27-2-386.
15:15 < jack-> would be sweet if that feature could be fink-ed
15:15 < akh> oops
15:15 < jack-> hehe
15:15 < akh> Yeah, it would
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15:39 < pogma> RangerRick: Did you get that pdf?
15:40 < pogma> looks like I used an old email address for you
15:40 <@RangerRick> pogma: yeah
15:40 <@RangerRick> thanks
15:40 < pogma> cool
15:40 <@RangerRick> the question is, should we try to have dpkg set that
15:40 < pogma> nope :)
15:40 < pogma> movie time
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15:58 < dmalloc> blasted seeds messing up ****
15:59 <@RangerRick> eh?
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16:00 < dmalloc> ah, stupid network emulation issues for hercules, RangerRick.
16:00 <@RangerRick> well join #fink-seed if you want to discuss details  :)
16:00  * RangerRick points at your NDA
16:01 < dmalloc> nothing NDA'd in there, all the things were in th epublic releases, only one define got moved into a none standard location, which seems like a mix up, I filed a radar, all is good :)
16:01 < dmalloc> somehow WWDC was not that much of an AHA this year, was it?
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16:03 <@RangerRick> depends on what you mean
16:03 <@RangerRick> lots of interesting stuff, it's just all happening at the application layer (other than 64-bittedness)
16:04 <@RangerRick> the base OS itself has stabilized quite a bit
16:04 <@RangerRick> not as much need for massive under-the-hood changes
16:04 < dmalloc> anyone know how to turn off TCP_NODELAY in mac os x?
16:04 <@RangerRick> nope
16:04 < dmalloc> true, the whole 64bit thing and it seem Merom is coming to the macbook pros in september
16:06 < Feanor> i know how to turn off NODELAY with setsockopt, does that count?
16:06 < dmalloc> well i wanted to temprarily turn it off for the whole tcp stack
16:08 < Feanor> it would be in sysctl net.inet if it's anywhere
16:08  * dmalloc goes to hunt
16:08 < dmalloc> thank you
16:10 < drm> which system preference do you use to specify that a password is required to wake from sleep or end the screen saver?
16:11 < dmalloc> ooh I used to remember that, I think you do it where the screensaver is
16:11 < drm> nope
16:11 < dmalloc> there you must check 'pasword required to blah blah'
16:12  * dmalloc recalls looking for that for ages as well
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16:13 < Feanor> i think they moved it to Security
16:14 < drm> yeah, that's where it is
16:14 < drm> found it :)
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16:25 < drm> sorry... this stupid network keeps kicking me off
16:27 < dmalloc> happens to the best
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16:46 < poushag> rangerrick and all, this isnt exactly a fink question but is related by way of how to use the unix gui apps:  i can run a gui app via the commandline but i would like to run it as a mac-osx alias with cli switches included - anybody doing this?  can tell me how pls?
16:47 < poushag> (how to set it up)
16:48 <@RangerRick> you mean you want to pass arguments to a GUI app?
16:48 <@RangerRick> a mac gui app, more specifically?
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17:02 < Bart_> omg
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17:13 < poushag> rangerrick thats mostly what i had in mind - but really just a simple one time call to the app with arguments that is basically invisible (as in no terminal pops up) until the gui app opens
17:13 < poushag> (sorry for the delay - got called away for a bit)
17:14 < poushag> something i can store in an alias or other icon
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17:27 <@RangerRick> you can call mac apps with arguments by doing /path/to/Foo.app/Contents/MacOS/Foo arg1 arg2 arg3
17:27 <@RangerRick> (it has to be the full path)
17:31 < poushag> yeah i figured that much out already
17:31 < poushag> right now ive been into apple script and made an 'app' that executes that command in iterm and it does it nicely with no terminal popping up
17:32 < poushag> but im still not done
17:32 <@RangerRick> oh, so you're making an icon that starts other apps with args?
17:32 <@RangerRick> would automator do that?
17:33 < poushag> i want to see if i can have a couple different applescript-apps that i can run so it loads a different set of preferences for each one
17:34 < poushag> but i dont yet know how to pass prefs in applescript
17:35 < poushag> dunno bout automator as i havent busted the learning curve on it yet - just piddled a bit
17:35 <@RangerRick> I have no idea
17:35 <@RangerRick> I've never had occasion to do it, I won't be of any help  :)
17:37 < poushag> sok - btw drm get back yet?
17:39 < htodd> poushag: you might try launch, too
17:41 < poushag> htodd, will look into it - i guess you havent used it to a custom plist file while lauching an app have you?
17:41 < poushag> *to pass a custom plist*
17:48 -!- miga [n=miga@easyconnect2121138-139.clients.easynet.fr] has joined #fink
17:48 < miga> Hello.
17:48 < htodd> poushag: no, I haven't.
17:49 < htodd> bonjour
17:49 < miga> Bonsoir htodd :-)
17:50  * htodd checks the clock
17:51 -!- drm [n=drm@cauchy.math.duke.edu] has joined #fink
17:51 < miga> It's 23:51 here.
17:51 < miga> Hello drm.
17:51 < drm> danielj: thanks for the pm588 packages... everyone else is invited to join the 588 party too! :)
17:51 < drm> hi miga
17:52 <@RangerRick> I got gpgme11 working with pth2
17:52 < drm> yeah
17:52 <@RangerRick> but I seem to recall I had it that way before and put it back for some reason
17:52 <@RangerRick> I'll need to do some experimenting
17:52 < danielj> drm: Yeah, I noticed you put perl588 in so I figured why not. :)
17:52 < drm> well, time marches on
17:53 < drm> if you get stuck with an old lib, the thing that needs it will eventually die :(
17:53 <@RangerRick> well, I think the moving parts (gpgme11,pth,kdepim) haven't moved that much, but I'll try  :)
17:56 < danielj> drm: The description of perl588 is wrong: "The Perl programming language, v. 5.8.6"
17:56 < drm> oops
17:56 <@RangerRick> heh
17:57 < danielj> :) cut and pasting.
17:57 < drm> copy and edit, in fact
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18:01 < danielj> I wonder how long it will take us poor slobs who weren't at WWDC to get preview discs. I have a spare machine available...
18:01 < drm> it may be a while i'm afraid
18:01 < drm> hi pogma
18:02 < pogma> hello drm 
18:02 < danielj> Yeah, can't remember how long it was when Tiger was announced. A few weeks at least.
18:02 < pogma> It will take a few weeks, I think, yes
18:02 < drm> i was at wwdc that time too, so i have no reason to remember :)
18:03 < danielj> heh.
18:03 < drm> danielj: my goal is to have fink bootstrappable by the time you get your disk
18:04 < drm> but this is touch and go i'm afraid :/
18:04 < danielj> Cool.
18:04 < pogma> it doesn't bootstrap now?
18:04 <@RangerRick> nope
18:04 < pogma> Oh, yeah, I patched hell out of it
18:04 < drm> pogma: maybe you don't have private msgs on right now?
18:04 < pogma> and set things like UNAME_VERSION and UNAME_RELEASE :)
18:05  * htodd realized he had two accounts on developer.apple.com
18:08 < cirdan> htodd: you can call them and get them merged
18:08 < drm> unless he wants two
18:09 < cirdan> well, yeah
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18:22 < htodd> I have to call them?
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22:58 < htodd> woo
23:04 < cirdan> hoo
23:05 < htodd> how are things in cirdanland?
23:07 -!- drm [n=drm@ool-18bacb22.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #fink
23:08 < cirdan> htodd: i just arrived at bedtimeland, will let you know in the morning :)
23:08 < drm> nighty night
23:09 < cirdan> drm: how large is the wwdc disk? < 4.7G?
23:09 < cirdan> if yo uknow offhand
23:09 < drm> dunno
23:09 < drm> one dvd each, for server and non-server
23:09 < cirdan> ah
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23:14 < drm> cirdan: by the way, i detected one small disadvantage to bootstrap (vs. .sh and .pl)
23:14 < drm> in the old system, if you didn't have write access to the directory from which you were bootstrapping it was ok, because the script managed to get through to the choice of sudo, and re-executing itself
23:14 < drm> with the new system, that doesn't work... only way to do it is 'sudo ./bootstrap' if you don't have write permission
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23:16 < poushag> drm - rangerrick told me that you are the one to ask
23:17 < drm> about what?
23:18 < poushag> well im trying to get more mac users involved in the openembedded project - all our needed build tools are in fink as binaries except getoptbin
23:18 < poushag> rr said we need to ask you about getting that binary put into the bindist adhoc (before the next release)
23:18 < drm> ah, yes, he mentioned that request... i was too busy last week (i was attending wwdc) but i can try to do it this week
23:19 < poushag> :)  thx very much
23:19 < drm> however, it will only be for powerpc, because i don't have access to the intel build machine at the moment
23:19 < poushag> yeah i was envious of you being there
23:19 < poushag> all i got to do was watch teh keynote address and the intro (pc guy)
23:20 <@RangerRick> I can build an intel binary, too
23:20 < poushag> ppc only is better than nothing
23:20 < poushag> can you build it for 10.3 and 10.4?
23:20 < drm> RangerRick: you have to be willing to clean everything out of your system
23:20 <@RangerRick> yup
23:20 < drm> i.e., uninstall all nonessentials
23:20 <@RangerRick> I have a pristine /sw on my intel box
23:20 < drm> ok, cool
23:20 <@RangerRick> I use /fink for all my experimental development
23:20 < drm> same here
23:21 < drm> except when i'm debugging the 'first it downloads binary and then it compiles from source' problem
23:21 <@RangerRick> hehe
23:21 < drm> you ever use the perl debugger?
23:21 <@RangerRick> nope
23:21 <@RangerRick> unless you mean "print"
23:21 <@RangerRick> ;)
23:22 < drm> well, there is a real, builtin debugger... you can step through, set breakpoints, all the usual good stuff
23:22 <@RangerRick> yeah, I know  :)
23:22 <@RangerRick> I was joking, but no, I haven't really used it
23:22 < drm> if i have time this week, i'm gonna attack the download/compile issue that way
23:22  * drm also debugs with 'print' :)
23:23 < drm> but first, we must give boots to all our kitties
23:23 <@RangerRick> hah
23:23  * RangerRick is getting pretty far with kde
23:23 <@RangerRick> I had to take the ulimit junk out of atk
23:24 <@RangerRick> I doubt it's necessary anymore
23:24 < drm> yeah, i did that too... sorry
23:24 < drm> also there is an easy fix for readline5 which you prolly discovered
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23:25 <@RangerRick> havne't had to build it yet, actually
23:25 <@RangerRick> hm
23:25 <@RangerRick> can't commit it?
23:25 < cirdan> drm: sudo perl ./bootstrap
23:25 < drm> sure i can, just haven't gotten to it
23:25 <@RangerRick> ok, wasn't sure if there was something holding it back
23:25 < drm> cirdan: sure, its just a shame you have to invoke sudo to get started
23:26 <@RangerRick> coudl have it re-exec itself  :)
23:26 < drm> RangerRick: current patch is 'darwin7*' -> 'darwin7* | darwin8*'
23:26 < drm> so you can guess the fix :)
23:26 <@RangerRick> hah
23:26 < drm> but i'll commit it shortly
23:26 < poushag> im off to tweak on my neighbors pc (eww ick) - had to restore an image to the hdd when the os died for no apparent reason
23:26 < cirdan> windows--
23:27 < poushag> of course
23:27 < poushag> thx for your assistance and feel free to ping me - if im not here im usu just a kvm switch away
23:28 < poushag> but mostly im on the mac  - which makes me a happy camper  :)
23:28 < cirdan> drm: i use the perl debugger sometimes
23:28 < cirdan> but each time i relearn how to use it :/
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23:34 < drm> rangerrick: committed
23:35 <@RangerRick> cool
23:35 < drm> rangerrick: i only have two others which don't involve perl 5.8.8: in the case of apr, i need to consult the maintainer; in the case of tcltk it just needs an update which i'm gonna put in my exp directory
23:35 <@RangerRick> ok
23:35 < drm> (and i got atk1 as well... we can prolly commit that to 10.4 without the ulimit)
23:37 < mdmonk> ls
23:38 < drm> my contents are unreadable
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23:39  * drm launches the badmitton shuttle over the net
23:40 < pogma> hello drm
23:40 < drm> good evening
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--- Log closed Tue Aug 15 00:00:58 2006